What is more stable?

[Explorocam]

Hi all,

I'm considering buying a new frame, either a 650 or 950mm frame.

Considering all the electronics are identical between the two frames would the larger diameter frame be more stable, or would it not matter? For example, I'm considering Ice Lite 50s on T-motors 4008 for either frame. I would also be considering 11" props on either frame.

Basically I'm trying to build an efficient stable airframe, I'm not considering carrying a great deal of weight so I'm not looking for heavy lifter at this point. I intend to carry a Sony NEX5 with some FPV gear.

Either frame would be using the DJI WKM.

Any advice or comments is welcome.



Thanks.

 

[Droider]

Hi.. why such a big frame then for NEX5? AND such big ESC's? Not sure what T motors 4008's whats the AXI equivalent?

Video or stills?

Dave

 

[kloner]

I've been going through a transition from normal fpv quads to big stuff, to carry nex-5's doing my thing. Those parts your listing are awefully big. the giant pancake motors are more for slow smooth shots, most doing 6s like an s800 would be expected to fly. higher kv motors speeds em up some by using a smaller prop, but sooner or later the prop speed over revs and your tearing parts up and loosing efficiency. I'll be perfectly honest i'm still standing in a field scratching me head, but i'm making headway

I get the size bit, but i haven't seen a lot of what your doing or fly like..... whats your goal other than to fpv with a nex5? range? speed? footage for? hero3 is awefully up there and helps keep a rig fun. As soon as there 2-3 lbs of camera/gimble underslung, she really mellows out

Not to derail ya, but theres a fancy nex Disco coming out next month that might be a worthwhile look anyways. kinda between a AV ship and a fpv rig, hybrid that's still fun to fly

if you had to get into a hex, this thing i'm flying is the bomb. you aint gonna get no arms flexin on that thing. it's still yet to be shown off, but it's close to breaking out big time. It'll be on par in speed and agility as a disco, easily, less vibe problems but it's a hex so it has them props out front to contend with. links in my sig

 

[Explorocam]

Thanks guys,


I'm actually building a AP ship. I'm using the Ice Lites as I know the refresh rate is crazy fast and I can get a good price on them. I was choosing the motors because I thought they were similar to the motors on the S800. I presently have the F550 and want a smooth flyer that can carry a few different options for carrying cameras. Smooth flying AP ship is my goal. The Ice Lite 50s are the choice I made based on the info that the refresh rate is crazy fast. I hope this helps. Please keep the info coming, I love what I'm learning from you guys.

I was also considering the 4008 T-motors because that's what Carbon Core is suggesting.

 

[kloner]

bart is testing that combo on that test stand he made, but more for coax efficiency

 

[Explorocam]

Hey guys,

I know the set up sounds kind of big but the reason for the Ice Lite 50s is the refresh rate. If there were Phoenix 30s I'd buy them instead. The T-motors are suggested for the Carbon Core 650 and the 950 on the Carbon Core site. View attachment 8632I know the Axi motors are really good motors but not cheap.and I also haven't seen Axi that are comparable to these T-motors. Like I said, I really appreciate the advice and comments.
http://www.electronicarc.com/catalo...ge=en&osCsid=775e89b8709c34cfc2c3cce9506033c3

Carbon Core is also suggesting this T-motor View attachment 8633
http://clubheli.com/Tiger-Motors-MT-3515-400KV_p_4190.html

 

[VINHEX]

I've got a fully loaded F550 I know it's a hobby frame but thought I could push to it's limits as I've seen the frame with kit on including Nex5n. Got all the kit together and it flew like bubble bee LOL, then I had a choice upgrade motors, widen frame ect.. With that in mind after doing it all I would still have a craft that wasn't designed to push over 2.4 Kg.
To the point, looking at what I've got coming, the motors, ESCs Etc your are looking at seem to be over kill for a carrying a gimbal Nex5n and some FPV kit. If you look around a few sites and see there standard setups and what they can carry the you'll get a good idea of what you require. http://hexacrafter.com I've got the HC-650 coming and using current 30a ESC from DJI and changing to recommended props and motors giving me a 3-3.5Kg lift.



Vin
DJI F550, DJI WKM, DJI DataLink 2.4Ghz, 3s 3300, 3s 5000, Aeroxcraft Landing Gear, Graupner 10x5 e-Props, Spektrum DX8, AR8000 Receiver
TM1000, Fatshark Attitude SD, Sony Exview Had II CCD 650 Line Sony Effio-E
Fatshark Spironet Antenna's, Bank balance 0.00
DJI iOSD

 

[Tomstoy2]

Vin, let us know how you get along with that kit! It's one I'm considering also.

 

[kloner]

it's a smooth rider. stiffest frame you'll find

 

[VINHEX]

Will do Tom.


Vin
DJI F550, DJI WKM, DJI DataLink 2.4Ghz, 3s 3300, 3s 5000, Aeroxcraft Landing Gear, Graupner 10x5 e-Props, Spektrum DX8, AR8000 Receiver
TM1000, Fatshark Attitude SD, Sony Exview Had II CCD 650 Line Sony Effio-E
Fatshark Spironet Antenna's, Bank balance 0.00
DJI iOSD

 

[Tomstoy2]

He pm'd me when I was looking at the CarbonCore. I checked it out, got to say I'm impressed. What motors, Vin?

 

[VINHEX]

Going to put on T-Motor 2814-10 770KV as recommended


Vin
DJI F550, DJI WKM, DJI DataLink 2.4Ghz, 3s 3300, 3s 5000, Aeroxcraft Landing Gear, Graupner 10x5 e-Props, Spektrum DX8, AR8000 Receiver
TM1000, Fatshark Attitude SD, Sony Exview Had II CCD 650 Line Sony Effio-E
Fatshark Spironet Antenna's, Bank balance 0.00
DJI iOSD

 

[Explorocam]

I hear what you guys are saying but when I compare the specs of the T-motor 4008 to the MT-2814-10 it would seem that the 4008 is way more efficient.
When you look at the specs of the of the 2814s at 14.8V on 12" prop the amp draw at 85% is 23.7 amps. But, when I look at the similar specs for the 4008s the Amp draw on 12" props is like 12.2 Amps. In addition to this the thrust is much higher to. So what am I missing, why are the 4008 not such a great choice? And any idea why Carbon Core would recommend them? I'm not complaining or criticizing, I honestly think I must be missing something or misunderstanding something.

 

[DennyR]

The 4008's are good motors, the thing is that with the low KV you may run out of RPM if you use small props. at 14.8v.

i.e. the 10x5 Graupner Eflite would be too small and it would lift off but not have enough reserve left to stabilize the model.

something like 12x5 or 13x5 with DJI 30Amp. works OK

 

[Explorocam]

The 4008's are good motors, the thing is that with the low KV you may run out of RPM if you use small props. at 14.8v.

i.e. the 10x5 Graupner Eflite would be too small and it would lift off but not have enough reserve left to stabilize the model.

something like 12x5 or 13x5 with DJI 30Amp. works OK

Cool this is really helpful, I think I'm getting it. Well my intention was to use at least 12x5 props on the the 650 or something like 13" or 14" on the 950. I'm pretty set on the Ice Lite 50s because I heard that with the firmware update for multirotors the refresh rate in Hz is even faster than the Simon-K ESCs which would make that even faster than the DJI Opto ESCs. Plus I can get a good deal on the Ice Lites.

Am I also mistaken about the Ice Lites having a very fast refresh rate? This is what I've been reading on the forums.

 

[Explorocam]

I think I'm getting some more info. I've read that the WKM performs better with smaller props at higher RPMs. This could be why I see a lot of suggestions for the 28 motors with higher KVs. However, this does not hold true if I consider the KV ratings on the S800 motors. Maybe I don't have a clue about what I'm talking about.

 

[Explorocam]

Maybe I should revise my original question.

I'm looking at either the Carbon Core 650 or 950. I want to carry a very smooth gimbal (but not the Zenmuse) to hold the NEX 5n. I want the multirotor to be smooth in flight and still have lots of power to get over some windy conditions and have lots of flight time (say 15 to 20 minutes). This system will be for AP work so smooth video is essential.

Maybe I'm asking for too much with no compromises, not sure. I hope this helps where I'm coming from.

Thanks in advance from the forums pain in the butt ->Me.


Will.

 

[Lanzar]

You will need some help from above to acomplish what you wish for. Since small props, hi speed motors, long flight time dont work together and there is no gimball to be as smoothe as zenmouse.

OR buy s800 with zenmouse and dont try to do something that is alredy avalible 15min flight time, steady picture, easy assembly.... just a taught

Lanzar

Maybe I should revise my original question.

I'm looking at either the Carbon Core 650 or 950. I want to carry a very smooth gimbal (but not the Zenmuse) to hold the NEX 5n. I want the multirotor to be smooth in flight and still have lots of power to get over some windy conditions and have lots of flight time (say 15 to 20 minutes). This system will be for AP work so smooth video is essential.

Maybe I'm asking for too much with no compromises, not sure. I hope this helps where I'm coming from.

Thanks in advance from the forums pain in the butt ->Me.


Will.

 

[VINHEX]

Not sure if you have seen this but may help if haven't
http://www.ecalc.ch/xcoptercalc_e.htm

 

[Explorocam]

VinF550, That's really cool. I had no idea such a thing even existed.

Lanzar, I feel you on that. I was looking at the S800 but heard a lot about bad vibs. I know the Zenmuse takes care of it, but still, the thrill of putting something together is kind of appealing.