Panasonic GH2 and Sony CX730 comparison

Jodde73

Member
What do you guys think about the Canon Eos M? Is it tested "in air" yet?

@Mombasa, at what bitrate are the Castle video shot? Hacked? (Really nice!)
 

MombasaFlash

Heli's & Tele's bloke

MombasaFlash

Heli's & Tele's bloke
What do you guys think about the Canon Eos M? Is it tested "in air" yet?

@Mombasa, at what bitrate are the Castle video shot? Hacked? (Really nice!)

I was way behind on the whole GH2 hack thing and could not get much info on it all - with the notable exception of yeehawnow who always responded to my pleas. It was his suggestion to try the Sanity5 hack. Having worked out how to get hold of it and load it the only real confirmation that it had installed correctly was the fact that the GH2 would no longer reliably film 1080 in HBR mode. Something to do with Panasonic lenses apparently (???!).

But the 720p50 FSH option works well and if I call up the hack info it tells me that the bitrate is the same as 1080p25 at 44Mbit.
 

Kari

Member
I was way behind on the whole GH2 hack thing and could not get much info on it all - with the notable exception of yeehawnow who always responded to my pleas. It was his suggestion to try the Sanity5 hack. Having worked out how to get hold of it and load it the only real confirmation that it had installed correctly was the fact that the GH2 would no longer reliably film 1080 in HBR mode. Something to do with Panasonic lenses apparently (???!).

But the 720p50 FSH option works well and if I call up the hack info it tells me that the bitrate is the same as 1080p25 at 44Mbit.

Have you tried latest Drifwoods Cluster or Cake? Best i've tried and reliable with 64GB 95M card.
 

MombasaFlash

Heli's & Tele's bloke
To be honest I am not feeling that adventurous just now with these hacks. Frankly, there is so much other stuff to get done I cannot be bothered to waste the time on experimenting with the others. They are all going to have the same problem with the 1080 HBR mode not spanning with the Panasonic lens. The GH2 seems to produce crisper video than anything else at this level straight out of the gate, so a mild improvement only makes it better. Paramount for me is absolute reliability. It has to work every single time without having to think about it or sod about recording a quick 5 sec clip before shutting down the camera in case the card becomes unreadable..... When you are on a job the last thing you need is equipment reliability concerns.

I did try Vanilla, which is billed as straight forward and simple, and the camera just locked after ten seconds every time. Maybe I had it set on 1080 HBR at the time, I have no idea now.

Anyway, the Sanity 2 does work reliably, and it features the same 44M bitrate, I still use the 64GB/95M card and the video looks clean enough to me and, as Krleas recently said about the CX730, a touch of sharpening in post crisps up the image. I can do that with the GH2 as well and make it EVEN cleaner. So, I am happy to stay with Sanity5 for now - until everything else has calmed down and/or I start getting bored.
 

yeehaanow

Member
Other thing is i think you should not stop down below f/8. I think footage is very soft even at f/11 and never go there, f/18 is disaster imo. I use ND:s to keep f-stop somewhere between f/5.6-8.

Generally, the sweet spot of sharpness of ANY lens is between f8-f11. I would argue that to open up below f8 will be softer than everything between f8-f14. f18 is no disaster. There may be issues with diffraction from f18-f22, but I haven't seen the evidence on the two panny kit lenses. 14-42 and 14-140.
Also, since we're talking about video, the lens resolution and sharpness is less important, because it will never be recorded anyway. It only really makes a difference when shooting 15mp stills. I've done A/B tests to prove this to myself and could not see a noticeable difference between f5.6-f18 in video mode.
 

DennyR

Active Member
Another variable to throw into the mix is that a lot of specialist aerial lenses are corrected for best performance at around infinity and for linear distortion. It is much easier to map (Vertical) without having to add large correction factors. (Calibration) Studio lenses are not much use.
 
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Kari

Member
Generally, the sweet spot of sharpness of ANY lens is between f8-f11. I would argue that to open up below f8 will be softer than everything between f8-f14. f18 is no disaster. There may be issues with diffraction from f18-f22, but I haven't seen the evidence on the two panny kit lenses. 14-42 and 14-140.
Also, since we're talking about video, the lens resolution and sharpness is less important, because it will never be recorded anyway. It only really makes a difference when shooting 15mp stills. I've done A/B tests to prove this to myself and could not see a noticeable difference between f5.6-f18 in video mode.

I only have 14-42 mega o.i.s version for GH2 and all i can say diffraction is definitely noticeable at f/16 even when shooting 720p50. Also "sweet spot" is relative to physical size of system, days before digital backs we used a lot Sinar 8"X10" f/64 were absolutely in sweet spot ;)

MombasaFlash that's why i asked, because Cake is most reliable hack i've tried, zero issues and zero freezings ever. Same with latest Cluster, but there is issue with 24p playback but files works perfectly. Actually they are only hacks i haven't managed to freeze with stress test. Reliability is the most important factor in hacks in our use though, i know the frustration very well when picking up freezed gh2 after perfect flight. Can't wait what the GH5 will be, rumors are better weather sealing and 1080p50. If that's the case i'm quite sure we will have a winner again.
 

MombasaFlash

Heli's & Tele's bloke
...Can't wait what the GH5 will be, rumors are better weather sealing and 1080p50...

GH5 or GH3? Whatever. Better wait for that before getting a Zenmuse then! Don't want to be stuck with yesterday's camera because the new one is too heavy or a slightly different shape and becomes incompatible. I wonder what Panasonic thinks about Sony's BOSS lenses and whether they ought to up their game a bit?
 

DennyR

Active Member
To be honest I am not feeling that adventurous just now with these hacks. Frankly, there is so much other stuff to get done I cannot be bothered to waste the time on experimenting with the others. They are all going to have the same problem with the 1080 HBR mode not spanning with the Panasonic lens. The GH2 seems to produce crisper video than anything else at this level straight out of the gate, so a mild improvement only makes it better. Paramount for me is absolute reliability. It has to work every single time without having to think about it or sod about recording a quick 5 sec clip before shutting down the camera in case the card becomes unreadable..... When you are on a job the last thing you need is equipment reliability concerns.

I did try Vanilla, which is billed as straight forward and simple, and the camera just locked after ten seconds every time. Maybe I had it set on 1080 HBR at the time, I have no idea now.

Anyway, the Sanity 2 does work reliably, and it features the same 44M bitrate, I still use the 64GB/95M card and the video looks clean enough to me and, as Krleas recently said about the CX730, a touch of sharpening in post crisps up the image. I can do that with the GH2 as well and make it EVEN cleaner. So, I am happy to stay with Sanity5 for now - until everything else has calmed down and/or I start getting bored.

What is the bit rate of the CX730. For aerial filming this is more important than sharpness which can be dealt with in Post. What limits the Nex-7 is the speed that it can refresh the screen. I was considering a 5D111 but then for under 3K I could get a Black Magic with EF mounting etc. Canon body is a bit lighter but with BM you get the full monti . They are not witholding anything because of competing models in their own range like canon.
 
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MombasaFlash

Heli's & Tele's bloke
What is the bit rate of the CX730...

Interestingly, and bearing in mind the apparent superior clarity in the raw images of the GH2, the CX730 has higher bitrates (same as the NEX-5n and therefore presumably similar to the NEX-7?).

GH2 (unhacked):
1920 x 1080p24 : 24M
1920 x 1080p25 : 17M
1280 x 720p50 : 17M

Sony CX730:
1920 x 1080p50 : 28M
1920 x 1080p25 : 24M


I still have the test clips of the GH2 before the hack was installed - actually, I really do not see a huge difference between that and the current 'better, higher bitrate' image with the 44M Sanity5 hack - and it is appreciably more impressive, in terms of apparent clarity and sharpness, than any of my other cameras. This includes the Panasonic HPX171-P2, Canon 5Dmk2 and Sony NEX-5n.

Now then DR, what's all this about you considering a 5D III ? Expressions like 'male jewellery' come to mind! Huh? Huh? :shame:
 

DennyR

Active Member
Well it is a function of what people will use the camera for, that is the main point. For night aerials it does take some beating as a stills camera. But for people who want to use it for semi amateur video work it is a huge weight penalty with no real advantages. I have seen some work from a Russian guy who shoots stills at 2 am with full shadow detail. Awesome work. Blackmagic wins hands down if you have the machine to lift it. the experience and the work contacts to justify the outlay on the complete package. Cinematic production is a small proportion of the available work outside of the US.

With tight budgets everywhere people have been making commercials with a GoPro in some quarters. I have recently done a couple of aerial clips that were cut into a high end TV production with a Nex-7. No visible difference from the production cameras after post. The most important thing is to keep all of the movements slow.
 
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Nettraptor

Member
what about the
X900 Panasonic seems that quality is equal or maybe sharper image from
Sony CX730, and 5 axis stabilization . with hybrid stab
 

krleas

FPV Freak
what about the
X900 Panasonic seems that quality is equal or maybe sharper image from
Sony CX730, and 5 axis stabilization . with hybrid stab

I have it, stabilization working great in roll axis too. Problem is small vibrations from motors. Sony eliminate them.
With Panasonic u get unsharp image.

SO if u dont have any vibrations on mount, then Panasonic is better then Sony, not to mention 3 sensors, colors and much more sharp image.
 



MombasaFlash

Heli's & Tele's bloke
what about the
X900 Panasonic seems that quality is equal or maybe sharper image from

Sony CX730, and 5 axis stabilization . with hybrid stab

Tested the X800, the X900 and the CX730 and sent them all back. Image wise the X800 and 900 are identical. Image is what is accepted as sharp, in the same way that the Sony NEX 5/7 and CX730 are accepted as sharp, but in reality none of them reach the standard of clarity of the GH2. The X800/900 have a slightly less 'sugarey' colour rendition than the Sony CX 730 but again, the GH2 beats them both.

Panasonic still insists on locating camcorder connector bays behind the screen and this makes them a right royal pain to access when gimbal mounted. The screen has to be sort of half open. The X800 does in fact have a slightly smaller screen with off-centre hinge that, when reversed, just reveals the stupid flat proprietary a/v out. The X900 has a bigger screen that completely masks the same a/v connector whereas the Sony CX has the a/v out on the handstrap side of the camera. Both have horrid touch screens to access all menus, the X900 has a useful manual assignable lens ring, the X800 doesn't, the CX 730 has what looks like a useful assignable button/wheel that turns out to be all but useless.

Both X900 and CX730 can record 1080p50 - which is wonderful if you can access it reasonably easily. It is not part of the current AVCHD protocol and is therefore not always supported and requires third-party conversion. The GH2 cannot record 1080p50(/60), only 1080i50(/60) or 720p50(/60). The X900 & CX700 series are locked into either PAL or NTSC, depending upon where they are purchased. A hacked GH2 has access to both standards and can record 25, 30, 50 & 60 fps - as well as variable frame rates in 'Cinema' mode.

Until the Z-15 gimbal is available for ALL cameras, and not just the NEX and GH2, you have no other option than to use one of the A.N. Other camera mounts and ropey-almost-there 'stabilisation' systems currently on the market that all claim wondrous things, and which none actually deliver reliably.
 

Nettraptor

Member
Sorry but for me z15 is not option , price is way out of my budget.

Anyway. Do you have any videos from x900 into the air with no post stab,? i want to see and judge for my self. right now the quality that X900 gives, for me and the job that i want it is more than enough.. i just want to see how does it work in stabilization.


 
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MombasaFlash

Heli's & Tele's bloke
I still have the test footage. It will take some time to organise it to be viewable i.e. stick it up Vimeo. Do you want it compared with anything else?
 


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