Building a Mikrokopter a' la carte (from parts, no MK kit purchase)
- Thread starter Bartman
- Start date
Bartman
Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
Update
I just ordered the electronics and the frame is in the mail so to date I've ordered
Droidworx AD-8HLE Heavy lift flat-okto frame
Mikrokopter
Bartman
I just ordered the electronics and the frame is in the mail so to date I've ordered
Droidworx AD-8HLE Heavy lift flat-okto frame
Mikrokopter
- FLight controller ver 2.1
- Navi board
- compass board
- GPS board
- GPS shield
- I2c isolator board
- ribbon cables to interconnect FC and Nav boards
Bartman
Bartman
Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
Trying to sort through motors this morning. The selections so far are
MK 3538 ($93, US market)
Axi 2814/22 ($130)
Pulso 2814/22 ($65)
Avroto 28-14/11 ($50)
All the motors are 350 watt motors with Kv ratings in the 770 range. Kv is the rpm's per volt of power applied. A higher Kv motor will turn faster which isn't necessarily good for multi-rotors.
If I go with the MK speed controllers (BL's in MK-speak), I'm current limited to approximately 40A but the motors above all list 22 to 25 amps as their max so that's fine.
Has anyone investigated the possibility of even bigger motors for their heavy lifters? Maybe the Pulso 2826/14 (545 watts, 760 kv)? With the bigger motors comes the possibility that the BL's will run hotter and maybe fail sooner but if the weight stays the same then the motors should run at the same current load making the BL's safe for the job. So why go with bigger motors in the first place?
This whole process of building an MK without just buying the kit is to go through these decisions so we can all maybe learn something so let's hear what the gurus have to say on motor selections.
I plan to put my current camera mount and camera (MKTR mount, Canon T2i camera) on this new frame and maybe use the extra lift to carry a third (and fourth??) 5000 mah battery. In other words, I like my camera but I want longer flights and I don't want to be at the limit of my carrying ability as I am now with my stock Okto II. I could just re-motor my Okto II since the BL's can easily handle more current but I also want a second Okto as a backup since I'm operating a business and canceling flights turns happy customers
into mad customers.
Future use of the heavy lifter is to carry a heavier camera mount and possibly a Canon 5D Mk II if I am ever asked to do so (weddings, advertising, etc.) so larger motors/ESC's now will meet that goal later.
Anyone want to chime in?
MK 3538 ($93, US market)
Axi 2814/22 ($130)
Pulso 2814/22 ($65)
Avroto 28-14/11 ($50)
All the motors are 350 watt motors with Kv ratings in the 770 range. Kv is the rpm's per volt of power applied. A higher Kv motor will turn faster which isn't necessarily good for multi-rotors.
If I go with the MK speed controllers (BL's in MK-speak), I'm current limited to approximately 40A but the motors above all list 22 to 25 amps as their max so that's fine.
Has anyone investigated the possibility of even bigger motors for their heavy lifters? Maybe the Pulso 2826/14 (545 watts, 760 kv)? With the bigger motors comes the possibility that the BL's will run hotter and maybe fail sooner but if the weight stays the same then the motors should run at the same current load making the BL's safe for the job. So why go with bigger motors in the first place?
This whole process of building an MK without just buying the kit is to go through these decisions so we can all maybe learn something so let's hear what the gurus have to say on motor selections.
I plan to put my current camera mount and camera (MKTR mount, Canon T2i camera) on this new frame and maybe use the extra lift to carry a third (and fourth??) 5000 mah battery. In other words, I like my camera but I want longer flights and I don't want to be at the limit of my carrying ability as I am now with my stock Okto II. I could just re-motor my Okto II since the BL's can easily handle more current but I also want a second Okto as a backup since I'm operating a business and canceling flights turns happy customers
into mad customers. Future use of the heavy lifter is to carry a heavier camera mount and possibly a Canon 5D Mk II if I am ever asked to do so (weddings, advertising, etc.) so larger motors/ESC's now will meet that goal later.
Anyone want to chime in?
Trying to sort through motors this morning. The selections so far are
MK 3538 ($93, US market)
Axi 2814/22 ($130)
Pulso 2814/22 ($65)
Avroto 28-14/11 ($50)
All the motors are 350 watt motors with Kv ratings in the 770 range. Kv is the rpm's per volt of power applied. A higher Kv motor will turn faster which isn't necessarily good for multi-rotors.
If I go with the MK speed controllers (BL's in MK-speak), I'm current limited to approximately 40A but the motors above all list 22 to 25 amps as their max so that's fine.
Has anyone investigated the possibility of even bigger motors for their heavy lifters? Maybe the Pulso 2826/14 (545 watts, 760 kv)? With the bigger motors comes the possibility that the BL's will run hotter and maybe fail sooner but if the weight stays the same then the motors should run at the same current load making the BL's safe for the job. So why go with bigger motors in the first place?
This whole process of building an MK without just buying the kit is to go through these decisions so we can all maybe learn something so let's hear what the gurus have to say on motor selections.
I plan to put my current camera mount and camera (MKTR mount, Canon T2i camera) on this new frame and maybe use the extra lift to carry a third (and fourth??) 5000 mah battery. In other words, I like my camera but I want longer flights and I don't want to be at the limit of my carrying ability as I am now with my stock Okto II. I could just re-motor my Okto II since the BL's can easily handle more current but I also want a second Okto as a backup since I'm operating a business and canceling flights turns happy customers
Future use of the heavy lifter is to carry a heavier camera mount and possibly a Canon 5D Mk II if I am ever asked to do so (weddings, advertising, etc.) so larger motors/ESC's now will meet that goal later.
Anyone want to chime in?
Stay away from the Mk 3538, overpriced and questionable/variable quality from what I've been reading of others experiences.
AXI, good motors and would be my first choice if $ was not an issue but if you need 6 or 8 of them that's an awful lot of $ for just the motors.
Pulso, second choice and what I currently use on the AD-6 heavy lifter, good luck finding a set they've been out of stock worldwide since the beginning of the year.
Avroto, heard a lot of good things about them and would likely be the motor I go with in the future given the non-availability of the Pulso 2814-22.
So far BL heat has not been a problem but I haven't flown it in really hot temps. Giving the canopy some extra ventilation should resolve any potential problems. If you're not sure you can check on the running temp via MKtool to make sure they're not getting too hot.
The issue with motors like the Pulso 2826/14 is first of all size, they're substatially bigger than the 2814 series so you have to work out a mounting method or if using Droidworx frame you'll need to purchase a set of the 50mm engine mounts, then I'd worry about the weight hanging out there on the end of the arm, vibration from a motor that large, and flight time will be somewhere around 5- 8 minutes max. Not worth it from what I can see if the next size down fits without mods and uses a lot less electrons while still providing plenty of lifting power. I think you'll find the idea of a third and fourth battery to be not worth the weight penalty as there won't be that much of an increase in flight time for the extra 2 to 4 pounds you would be carrying, that's a lot of weight for maybe an additional 3 or 4 minutes of flight IMO. Your RTF weight would likely be in the 10 to 12 pound range and you're not going to get a lot of flight time with a rig that heavy, my AD-6 weighs in at around 8 1/2 pounds with a pair of 4S 5000 packs and a GoPro, add two more batts and a Canon SLR you're easily at 12 pounds.
Ken
Last edited by a moderator:
Bartman
Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
ken,
I'm flying 12 minutes with my Okto II with dual 4S 5000 mah batteries, the MKTR mount and my T2i camera. What kind of flight times are you getting with the Hexa set-up?
I can see what you're saying about the larger motors. I'm just trying to put the questions out there that anyone would have to consider if they weren't buying a kit. The motor weights I've found for comparison don't make it obvious if they include wires or not so it's hard to know if correct values are being compared.
Off to celebrate Mother's Day with the wife/kids and my Mom.
Have a nice day everyone.
Bart
I'm flying 12 minutes with my Okto II with dual 4S 5000 mah batteries, the MKTR mount and my T2i camera. What kind of flight times are you getting with the Hexa set-up?
I can see what you're saying about the larger motors. I'm just trying to put the questions out there that anyone would have to consider if they weren't buying a kit. The motor weights I've found for comparison don't make it obvious if they include wires or not so it's hard to know if correct values are being compared.
Off to celebrate Mother's Day with the wife/kids and my Mom.
Have a nice day everyone.
Bart
Unless they specifically say they have the longer wires you can pretty much count on there being about 3 inches of wire included in the weight along with whatever prop adaptor comes with the motor.
The 8 1/2 pound Droidworx AD-6 flys close to 8 minutes on a single 4S 5000 and on a pair of the same I've gotten a solid 12 with capacity left, could probably get 14 though it might put the discharge a bit over the 80% recommendation. That was with the Graupner 11 x 5 props which were a bit too small, haven't had an opportunity to check it with the 12 x 3.8 yet.
Ken
Bartman
Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
Only if you plan to use bridge girders for the arms and Mack truck transmissions for the gear reduction to the props...
Ken
Macsgrafs
Active Member
that motor is ok for a trainer!
Bartman
Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
Boards arrived today from Quadrocopter.us and they look good. I bought an I2C isolator board as my feeling at the time was to have the updated Okto power distribution board and MK ver. 2.0 BL's (ESC's) but now I'm having second thoughts.
My plan early on was to solder the boards myself but I went ahead and had Quadrocopter do my dirty work. I just can't justify the time to do this step of the build when they'll do it very competently for $75. I'm swamped lately and want to get this thing flying ASAP. Just waiting on the frame and then I've got to make a final decision on motors and ESC's.
Stay tuned.
Bart
My plan early on was to solder the boards myself but I went ahead and had Quadrocopter do my dirty work. I just can't justify the time to do this step of the build when they'll do it very competently for $75. I'm swamped lately and want to get this thing flying ASAP. Just waiting on the frame and then I've got to make a final decision on motors and ESC's.
Stay tuned.
Bart
Bartman
Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
I've really got to get this thing flying so today I ordered motors and I'm trying to make a decision on how the motors will be controlled.
The MK way to control motors is with the MK BL's, rated for 25A they're about $75 each. The power distribution board they mount in costs an additional $55 and you can spend $200 to $375 to have the board assembled. It's a good idea to add an I2C isolator board if you go this route so that's an additional $80. An advantage to this system is that it's very neat and orderly under your MK electronics stack. There are no bundles of wires or harnesses sending power to the individual ESC's so I'd guess it's a good bit lighter than the a' la carte approach.
The a' la carte approach would be to control your motors with traditional non-MK ESC's. This will no doubt save money but what ESC's will work and how should they be hooked up? A quick conversation with our good friend RTRyder shed some loght on this and here's what I learned. Going the a' la carte route first requires a converter board to allow the individual ESC's to play nice with the MK flight control. THe converter was designed to work with the current crop of chinese ESC's so, as bad as it sounds, cheap is good. Too many features spoil the converter so for ESC's, Turnigy Plush are fine. I'd guess that the MK BL is a higher quality motor controller but at more than five times the price, I'm willing to take the chance and find out if the Turnigy controllers can do the job. In addition to the controllers and the converter, I'm going to need a few lengths of black and red wire for the power harness as well as a programming card for the ESC's
Adding up what each option costs it looks like this
Option 1, MK standard BL and power board
MK BL's, $75 each ($600 for 8 pcs.)
MK power board, $55
I2c isolator, $80
Option 2, Standard ESC's and I2c to PWM converter
Turnigy Plush 25A ESC's, $12.50 each ($100 for 8 pcs)
I2c to PWM converter from abusemark.com, $15.00
Misc supplies, $30
Total for MK power/control, $735
Total for a' la carte power/control, $145
If money were no object I'd go with the Mikrokopter components as I trust them to work perfectly with the MK flight controller and the installation is very neat and efficient. With a price difference of nearly $600 though I'm inclined to give the a' la carte strategy a try and with that in mind I'm going to buy the following;
ESC's, http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__2163__TURNIGY_Plush_25amp_Speed_Controller.html
I2c converter, http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3
I almost forgot to mention that I purchased eight of these motors today
http://montorc.com/M2814Shaft.aspx
I'll get to work assembling the frame in the coming days. I've also got to figure out which camera mount to buy or if I should just put my old MKTR on this new craft. I'm leaning towards buying a new AverticalView mount with the money I saved from using the Turnigy ESC's but I'll sleep on that before making a decision.
Regards,
Bart
The MK way to control motors is with the MK BL's, rated for 25A they're about $75 each. The power distribution board they mount in costs an additional $55 and you can spend $200 to $375 to have the board assembled. It's a good idea to add an I2C isolator board if you go this route so that's an additional $80. An advantage to this system is that it's very neat and orderly under your MK electronics stack. There are no bundles of wires or harnesses sending power to the individual ESC's so I'd guess it's a good bit lighter than the a' la carte approach.
The a' la carte approach would be to control your motors with traditional non-MK ESC's. This will no doubt save money but what ESC's will work and how should they be hooked up? A quick conversation with our good friend RTRyder shed some loght on this and here's what I learned. Going the a' la carte route first requires a converter board to allow the individual ESC's to play nice with the MK flight control. THe converter was designed to work with the current crop of chinese ESC's so, as bad as it sounds, cheap is good. Too many features spoil the converter so for ESC's, Turnigy Plush are fine. I'd guess that the MK BL is a higher quality motor controller but at more than five times the price, I'm willing to take the chance and find out if the Turnigy controllers can do the job. In addition to the controllers and the converter, I'm going to need a few lengths of black and red wire for the power harness as well as a programming card for the ESC's
Adding up what each option costs it looks like this
Option 1, MK standard BL and power board
MK BL's, $75 each ($600 for 8 pcs.)
MK power board, $55
I2c isolator, $80
Option 2, Standard ESC's and I2c to PWM converter
Turnigy Plush 25A ESC's, $12.50 each ($100 for 8 pcs)
I2c to PWM converter from abusemark.com, $15.00
Misc supplies, $30
Total for MK power/control, $735
Total for a' la carte power/control, $145
If money were no object I'd go with the Mikrokopter components as I trust them to work perfectly with the MK flight controller and the installation is very neat and efficient. With a price difference of nearly $600 though I'm inclined to give the a' la carte strategy a try and with that in mind I'm going to buy the following;
ESC's, http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__2163__TURNIGY_Plush_25amp_Speed_Controller.html
I2c converter, http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3
I almost forgot to mention that I purchased eight of these motors today
http://montorc.com/M2814Shaft.aspx
I'll get to work assembling the frame in the coming days. I've also got to figure out which camera mount to buy or if I should just put my old MKTR on this new craft. I'm leaning towards buying a new AverticalView mount with the money I saved from using the Turnigy ESC's but I'll sleep on that before making a decision.
Regards,
Bart
Bartman
Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
Just ordered the Gens Ace Volcano ESC's from HobbyPartz.com after learning they are the same as the Turnigy Plush ESC's. The Turnigy ones are out of stock as are the Volcano 25A ones so I ordered the Gens Ace Volcano 30A ones
http://www.hobbypartz.com/30a-electronic-brushless-esc-speed-controller--volcano-series-.html
http://www.hobbypartz.com/30a-electronic-brushless-esc-speed-controller--volcano-series-.html
Droider
Drone Enthusiast
I just ordered my electronics from Sandor at Digitech for my new HL DW... going MK route after nights and weeks reading.. its costing wedge but I am now committed. Its well thought out and German quality.. I am sure there are other ways of doing this but I am trusting on proven tech. Sure there are some problems and with these flying bricks you take your chances and if and when it hits the ground what ever you did you will wish you had done it another way.. just don't hit cast iron statues and I am sure which ever way you go it will fly..
DAve
DAve
Bartman
Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
Dave,
For the foreseeable future you won't go wrong buying MK boards. Good luck getting your build started, if I can be of any help just chime in or shoot me a PM.
I'm excited to get this one going again now that I've got some of the details finalized.
Bart
For the foreseeable future you won't go wrong buying MK boards. Good luck getting your build started, if I can be of any help just chime in or shoot me a PM.
I'm excited to get this one going again now that I've got some of the details finalized.
Bart
Bartman
Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
If you're waiting for delivery of your first multi-rotor I've got to say it isn't very exciting when you open the box. In fact the box is usually pretty small and much lighter than you'd expect. What's amazing is that when you're done you've got an RC heli that is usually much more capable than most all other RC stuff.
Here's what came in the box from Droidworx. The usual stuff is there; arm tubes, frame plates, motor mount parts, arm mount parts, a dome/cover, etc. It's all carbon fiber and meets my expectations as far as quality is concerned.
Assembly directions can be found here;
http://www.droidworx.com.au/assembly.html
This is going to be a standard flat eight, heavy lift, Mikrokopter based craft in a Droidworx frame.
Bart
Here's what came in the box from Droidworx. The usual stuff is there; arm tubes, frame plates, motor mount parts, arm mount parts, a dome/cover, etc. It's all carbon fiber and meets my expectations as far as quality is concerned.
Assembly directions can be found here;
http://www.droidworx.com.au/assembly.html
This is going to be a standard flat eight, heavy lift, Mikrokopter based craft in a Droidworx frame.
Bart
