British MR fliers UNITE
- Thread starter Droider
- Start date
European Aviation Safety Agency - basically the Europe-wide version of the CAA. For example, all flight crew licensing is being consolidated across Europe by the EASA, and there is much debate as to what if any of the uniqueness of the UK CAA licensing arrangements will be retained.
ZAxis
Member
For people's info, my place is about half a mile from Crewe railway station so rail travel is an option from just about anywhere.
andy
Macsgrafs
Active Member
Dave, here's there website http://easa.europa.eu/home.php
As for meet location...I will be driving..from Devon, so anyone on route I can give a lift to..thats M5 Bristol & up basically
Ross
As for meet location...I will be driving..from Devon, so anyone on route I can give a lift to..thats M5 Bristol & up basically
Ross
Jake Bullit
Fly,crash,glue,repeat!
Macsgrafs
Active Member
Yeah, come on Dave stop messing about at work, there are more important things in life than work..I want to play with my toys
Droider
Drone Enthusiast
Basically any one can become a tester/test centre as long as it approved and meets EuroUSE standards! So still the BNUC-s!
They have their foot in to door and I doubt the CAA will budge. I have looked into the background and the reason they have the monopoly is thier experience in the sector. It will be hard to push in.. I think the only option as a consortium we would have is to set up an approved test and certification body approved to Bnuc standards. We certainly have the qualifications. The members that have PM'd me especially one is more than qualified as a flight examiner.. Its just how we go forward and who has the time to set it all up..
But I am open to suggestions
Dave
They have their foot in to door and I doubt the CAA will budge. I have looked into the background and the reason they have the monopoly is thier experience in the sector. It will be hard to push in.. I think the only option as a consortium we would have is to set up an approved test and certification body approved to Bnuc standards. We certainly have the qualifications. The members that have PM'd me especially one is more than qualified as a flight examiner.. Its just how we go forward and who has the time to set it all up..
But I am open to suggestions
Dave
ZAxis
Member
Dave ...
Do we know what the EuroUSE standards are ? Is there a published document, can't find one on the web.
One thing we will need is a reasonable number of potential certification seekers. It would certainly have to be more than on this forum. Without those it cannot be self supporting. So publicity would be important. You may have noticed my recent thread looking for university types with an application for MRs. Seems its only Mactadpole in that category and he's in the wrong country. These are the types to attract so they can satisfy their H&S officers.
Perhaps we need some informal discussions amongst us rather than a big meeting, perhaps at the next Fly-In ? What ever happens it would end up a big commitment for a few people on a continuing long term basis.... daunting ?
andy
Do we know what the EuroUSE standards are ? Is there a published document, can't find one on the web.
One thing we will need is a reasonable number of potential certification seekers. It would certainly have to be more than on this forum. Without those it cannot be self supporting. So publicity would be important. You may have noticed my recent thread looking for university types with an application for MRs. Seems its only Mactadpole in that category and he's in the wrong country. These are the types to attract so they can satisfy their H&S officers.
Perhaps we need some informal discussions amongst us rather than a big meeting, perhaps at the next Fly-In ? What ever happens it would end up a big commitment for a few people on a continuing long term basis.... daunting ?
andy
Droider
Drone Enthusiast
Thats sort of the conclusion I was coming to. There is a download onEuroUSe website stating the criteria for becoming a accreditation provider but its far more time than I have..
I will help all I can but setting up something like what would seem to be required looks like a massive investment.. hence the high certification costs.. round in the circle we go!
Dave
Bowley
Member
Nobody could be expected to offer a commercial certification service and all it involves unless it is going to be worth there while financially. One drawback that sticks with me is that we could only deal with MR's, whereas Euro USC deals with the whole plethora of unmanned flight.
I think we could have some clout as a unified MR group in lobbying both the CAA and Euro USC who do have growing influence with the CAA. The legislation around unmanned flight is so fluid right now and in many cases the CAA cant even keep up with itself and you find so many contradictions and discrepancies in their publications.
As has been said before direction from the people who operate them is preferential to legislation driven by the faceless bureaucrat, to keep the public happy, whom the media have managed to convince that 'drones' are all spies in the sky or peeping toms.
I think we could have some clout as a unified MR group in lobbying both the CAA and Euro USC who do have growing influence with the CAA. The legislation around unmanned flight is so fluid right now and in many cases the CAA cant even keep up with itself and you find so many contradictions and discrepancies in their publications.
As has been said before direction from the people who operate them is preferential to legislation driven by the faceless bureaucrat, to keep the public happy, whom the media have managed to convince that 'drones' are all spies in the sky or peeping toms.
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Macsgrafs
Active Member
Dave, as I said in a PM to you a week or so ago, you have done the test & in that case why dont YOU become cheif examiner, then others must come to you for the test...which obviously you charge for...say £100 each person. 15 people over the course of the year & you have broke even, you know there will be more than that over time.
I feel we should make our own club "The multi rotor club of great britain", something like that as an example. I have lots of spare time during the week, so I dont mind doing whatever needs doing. I have a BMFA A cert for heli's if that's any help, B cert later this year when the weather warms up & the old examiner can get out
Come on guys, united we stand a much better chance of getting the CAA & other powers that be, to see that we are a different kettle of fish than the average Rc modellor & we dont fly over populated areas or in the airways like the military do. We pose NO threat to anyone, but we must beleive in ourselves, don't be defeated & we will overcome this rip off culture that we have to endure already in the hobby.
Ross
I feel we should make our own club "The multi rotor club of great britain", something like that as an example. I have lots of spare time during the week, so I dont mind doing whatever needs doing. I have a BMFA A cert for heli's if that's any help, B cert later this year when the weather warms up & the old examiner can get out
Come on guys, united we stand a much better chance of getting the CAA & other powers that be, to see that we are a different kettle of fish than the average Rc modellor & we dont fly over populated areas or in the airways like the military do. We pose NO threat to anyone, but we must beleive in ourselves, don't be defeated & we will overcome this rip off culture that we have to endure already in the hobby.
Ross
Bowley
Member
Euro USC have set the bar, CAA states the requirement for Aerial work is BNUC or equivalent. I assume any equivalent would in fact, have to be, equivalent. The BNUC is more than a simple flight test like the BMFA certs.
So on the grounds of having to be equivalent we are looking at a ground school course and exam over 2 days. A full review of your safety case and ops manual and a practical operational test iaw your ops manual.
The bulk of the cost for the BNUC is obviously the ground schooling and exam which takes a day and a half to 2 days. Now it is not mandatory to attend the ground school you can just take the exam for £350+ vat (flight also £350 if more than 1). If you can convince Euro USC to provide a self study pack (I couldn't but if enough people ask the same they might listen), this might cut the cost. I would not recommend sitting the exam without doing the course as there is a lot of quite specific material in it including reading and understanding aeronautical charts.
Euro USC does not see what we do as modelling as far as it is concerned we are operating Unmanned Aerial Vehicles in segregated airspace and sometimes non- segregated. What also came across is that the CAA are very progressive and would be likely to give exemptions to the ANO as long as any job is safe, risk assessed, and relevent ATC know about it. For example if you wanted to do a job at 1000ft in an ATZ it is not out the question.
The modelling and hobby side of things is left to the BMFA and SAA.
Unless anyone see's an opportunity and wants to set up an enterprise in competition with Euro USC, Then I cannot see any way round the BNUC. Anyone I have spoken to about it see the investment too great for expected returns.
So on the grounds of having to be equivalent we are looking at a ground school course and exam over 2 days. A full review of your safety case and ops manual and a practical operational test iaw your ops manual.
The bulk of the cost for the BNUC is obviously the ground schooling and exam which takes a day and a half to 2 days. Now it is not mandatory to attend the ground school you can just take the exam for £350+ vat (flight also £350 if more than 1). If you can convince Euro USC to provide a self study pack (I couldn't but if enough people ask the same they might listen), this might cut the cost. I would not recommend sitting the exam without doing the course as there is a lot of quite specific material in it including reading and understanding aeronautical charts.
Euro USC does not see what we do as modelling as far as it is concerned we are operating Unmanned Aerial Vehicles in segregated airspace and sometimes non- segregated. What also came across is that the CAA are very progressive and would be likely to give exemptions to the ANO as long as any job is safe, risk assessed, and relevent ATC know about it. For example if you wanted to do a job at 1000ft in an ATZ it is not out the question.
The modelling and hobby side of things is left to the BMFA and SAA.
Unless anyone see's an opportunity and wants to set up an enterprise in competition with Euro USC, Then I cannot see any way round the BNUC. Anyone I have spoken to about it see the investment too great for expected returns.
plingboot
Member
Rather than attempting to bite off a huge chunk with an alternate exam, which as others have mentioned will involve a lot of work by a few individuals, would it be practical to go back to basics and with the help of more experienced pilots (on here) develop a series of basic flight tutorials/exercises which new comers can take to the field and practise with.
It's easy to just go out and fly around, but (like training for anything) if you go out with a plan, follow it and then if necessary spend a few minutes at the end of the session planking around aimlessly - the results are more worthwhile.
It's easy to just go out and fly around, but (like training for anything) if you go out with a plan, follow it and then if necessary spend a few minutes at the end of the session planking around aimlessly - the results are more worthwhile.
ZAxis
Member
Bowley has laid things out very comprehensively. I have to agree with him that the authorities will say a UAV is a UAV no matter what size or application so why can hobby fliers go unregulated? They can take a cheap test with the BMFA, if they want, and go out and enjoy themselves in pretty much the same airspace the CAA worries about. Would another approach be to get the BMFA remit extended ?
andy
andy
Bowley
Member
I have it from the CAA that the BMFA want less, not more to do with anything commercial.
Just taking a broad view, there is an FPV association outwith the BMFA, Maybe we should look along those lines for Amateur RC Aerial Photography, perhaps not just for MR's but all types of RC craft. I think MR fliers make up the majority, so would be natural to take the lead.
A British branch of RCAPA perhaps.
Just taking a broad view, there is an FPV association outwith the BMFA, Maybe we should look along those lines for Amateur RC Aerial Photography, perhaps not just for MR's but all types of RC craft. I think MR fliers make up the majority, so would be natural to take the lead.
A British branch of RCAPA perhaps.