XAircraft SuperX

[mediaguru]

I have one ESC that sometimes doesn't start. Played around a lot with the ESC calibration until I finally gave up. It usually arms on the second try. I believe this is either an issue with the SuperX or a power race condition.

The same happens for me, motor #6. I power down the bird and make sure my throttle stick is all the way down. Restart bird and all is fine.

 

[Mike SF]

Yes, it always works on the second try. A little annoying, but no show stopper.

 

[fltundra]

Yesterday, I just flew my new quad for the first time. SuperX, T-motor MN3510-13 700kv, Hobbywing Platinum Pro 30A OPTO, Taranis, X8R receiver. It's probably a little early to tell, but so far I had no problems with arming the ESCs. I calibrated them with -89/+100 endpoints and then reset the endpoints to -100/+100. Not that it matters too much, since I already decided to upgrade to KDE motors and probably the Castle Cr. ESCs. Since it's a quad and I will carry a gimbal and camera worth almost $2000, I want the highest available quality in motors and ESCs.


With my other SuperX rig (4kg Y6, Avrotos, ZTW Spider 30A OPTO) I have one ESC that sometimes doesn't start. Played around a lot with the ESC calibration until I finally gave up. It usually arms on the second try. I believe this is either an issue with the SuperX or a power race condition.




The new quad wobbles a lot and I had to turn down the gains by around 50%. But then it becomes sluggish. The black box shows very low vibrations (0.2-0.5) and the motors are all vertically aligned. But it's an FPV style frame (kind of like the QAV500, just bigger), with a certain asymmetry and a CG that is very much in the back. I will change the arm positions, to make it symmetric and make sure the CG is correct and then try again. I will report back in a few days.

Mike,
Why didn't you just calibrate them at -100 to +100, -89 seems that would cause your start up probs.

 

[Motopreserve]

The same happens for me, motor #6. I power down the bird and make sure my throttle stick is all the way down. Restart bird and all is fine.

Same here....

I have recently been told that the integrated PDB is a little shoddy on the Tarot 680Pro, with uneven ESC runs to the main battery pads, and that the SuperX doesn't like this. I will be installing a squid when I tear it apart - and hope for the best.

 

[kloner]

are those simonK esc on the one that wobbles? did you try one motor with a prop wide open, closed, wide open?

 

[Mike SF]

Mike,
Why didn't you just calibrate them at -100 to +100, -89 seems that would cause your start up probs.

Well, I did this in the beginning, but it was worse. 4 out of 6 motors sometimes did not arm. So I started to increase the lower end point. The problem is the FC that is likely using a fixed low end point to arm the ESC instead if using the endpoint it gets during the stick calibration. So if this fixed end point is higher than you transmitter end point (the one you used to calibrate the ESC), the ESC will never arm. The trick is to calibrate the ESC with an end point high enough, to that the FC end point is lower.

The Naza is doing the same. It has fixed end points for arming. That's why the ESC from TBS should be be calibrated by the user because they are calibrated to the Naza end points out of the factory.

 

[fltundra]

Well, I did this in the beginning, but it was worse. 4 out of 6 motors sometimes did not arm. So I started to increase the lower end point. The problem is the FC that is likely using a fixed low end point to arm the ESC instead if using the endpoint it gets during the stick calibration. So if this fixed end point is higher than you transmitter end point (the one you used to calibrate the ESC), the ESC will never arm. The trick is to calibrate the ESC with an end point high enough, to that the FC end point is lower.

The Naza is doing the same. It has fixed end points for arming. That's why the ESC from TBS should be be calibrated by the user because they are calibrated to the Naza end points out of the factory.

Mike,
Just to let you know I have the castle mr's calibrated at -100 +100 without any start up issues. hope this helps.:tennis:

 

[Mike SF]

No these are not SimonK ESC. Its a proprietary Hobbywing FW. The only reason I chose them, was that I tested the MN3510 on the bench and got sync problems with the ZTW Spider SimonK and a blue HK ESC, also SimonK. After some research it came up that only the Hobbywing ESC and the Tiger ESC (which seems to be the same) will work with the motors. Even RC Tiger recommends to not use SimonK with these motors. Personally I find this all very annoying.

The Hobbywing ESC then worked on the bench. No sync issues. But I don't trust that this ESC and the MN3510 is an effective combination. Not sure if they can control the motor fast enough. When I rev them up on the bench, they seem to be slower up and down than my Avrotos. So the wobble might have something to do with it.

Anyway, as I said, I will move forward and use the KDE/Castle CR. combination that seem to be working quite well, according to you :tennis:

 

[Mike SF]

Yes, this definitely helps. It increases my confidence the the castle MR are working well and that this might not be a SuperX issue.

Do you think the KDE ESC would be a better choice that the Castle MRs? They are more expensive and besides the marketing language on their web site, I could not find anyone who is using them and compared them. I'm sure they are good, but if the Castles don't have issue then I don't want to over spend.

 

[Motopreserve]

Mike: I have had this same issue on 2 sets of ESCs and 2 Tx/RX. First the HobbyWing Platinum Pro OPTO 30A and now a set of ZTW Spider. Taranis and futaba 14SG. Although I did dip the end points in an attempt to rectify the problem - I never got into the 80's. This seemed to be a "known" issue - the quotes because some people insist it doesn't exist - despite several mentions of it.

I took the superx off the hex after the issues with the HW ESCs and put a Naza on it - and it worked. No change other than FC. Fired up 1st try. That led me to believe that A) I wasn't crazy, and B) the one variable was the superx.

If you have had the same issue on an identical rig but with a Naza - then the plot thickens.

 

[fltundra]

Yes, this definitely helps. It increases my confidence the the castle MR are working well and that this might not be a SuperX issue.

Do you think the KDE ESC would be a better choice that the Castle MRs? They are more expensive and besides the marketing language on their web site, I could not find anyone who is using them and compared them. I'm sure they are good, but if the Castles don't have issue then I don't want to over spend.

sent you a pm

 

[Mike SF]

Mike: I have had this same issue on 2 sets of ESCs and 2 Tx/RX. First the HobbyWing Platinum Pro OPTO 30A and now a set of ZTW Spider. Taranis and futaba 14SG. Although I did dip the end points in an attempt to rectify the problem - I never got into the 80's. This seemed to be a "known" issue - the quotes because some people insist it doesn't exist - despite several mentions of it.

I took the superx off the hex after the issues with the HW ESCs and put a Naza on it - and it worked. No change other than FC. Fired up 1st try. That led me to believe that A) I wasn't crazy, and B) the one variable was the superx.

If you have had the same issue on an identical rig but with a Naza - then the plot thickens.

Yeah, I know, I followed your odyssey. The people in the RCG forum sometime like to put their heads in the sand. They don't understand that our goal is to improve a good product. To sort out the wobble problem, I will add a Naza to my quad. I can then easily switch between the SuperX and the Naza and see if they have differently. Not an ESC problem, but the FPV frame layout that some reported the SuperX doesn't like. I was hoping these are users errors, but now I'm not so sure. But I need more testing before making a final assessment.

 

[Motopreserve]

Yeah, I know, I followed your odyssey. The people in the RCG forum sometime like to put their heads in the sand. They don't understand that our goal is to improve a good product. To sort out the wobble problem, I will add a Naza to my quad. I can then easily switch between the SuperX and the Naza and see if they have differently. Not an ESC problem, but the FPV frame layout that some reported the SuperX doesn't like. I was hoping these are users errors, but now I'm not so sure. But I need more testing before making a final assessment.

Odyssey is the word for it!

I have used my SuperX on a Cinetank H style frame - and although it sometimes seemed to have some issues, I was able to get it flying pretty well, and without a doubt, with the least amount of vibrations. I plan on moving the superx over to the Vulcan build - and although this thread title shows some issue with heavier lifts, I do not plan on lifting TOO heavy....I hope.

 

[Mike SF]

Good to know. I have not given up yet. The Cinetank H looks nice. Mine is bigger with 66cm MTM. Finally weight around 3.6kg. My Y6 is 4kg and flies very well with the SuperX.

 

[Motopreserve]

Good to know. I have not given up yet. The Cinetank H looks nice. Mine is bigger with 66cm MTM. Finally weight around 3.6kg. My Y6 is 4kg and flies very well with the SuperX.

Mom just about to out the extended booms on for use with up to 12" props. Lower Kv motors should make it lift a bit more weight easier. I'm at the top of the range already. Just using some SS V series for this thing. 2kg total weight - no need for the big guns

 

[mediaguru]

Well, I did this in the beginning, but it was worse. 4 out of 6 motors sometimes did not arm. So I started to increase the lower end point. The problem is the FC that is likely using a fixed low end point to arm the ESC instead if using the endpoint it gets during the stick calibration. So if this fixed end point is higher than you transmitter end point (the one you used to calibrate the ESC), the ESC will never arm. The trick is to calibrate the ESC with an end point high enough, to that the FC end point is lower.

The Naza is doing the same. It has fixed end points for arming. That's why the ESC from TBS should be be calibrated by the user because they are calibrated to the Naza end points out of the factory.

An FYI and Moto probably already knew this, but I was able to successfully get it done the first time by going -89 to +100. Then I read someone with the same issue got it working with -97 to +100 so I tried that. I've been on that cali ever since and only maybe 3 times out of 15 have I had one motor not want to arm.

Perhaps it is relevant to note what the TX is? I'm using a Taranis.

 

[Motopreserve]

An FYI and Moto probably already knew this, but I was able to successfully get it done the first time by going -89 to +100. Then I read someone with the same issue got it working with -97 to +100 so I tried that. I've been on that cali ever since and only maybe 3 times out of 15 have I had one motor not want to arm.

Perhaps it is relevant to note what the TX is? I'm using a Taranis.

yep. I recall you saying that. I know for sure that I went down to -90. Just didn't get I to the 80's. But certainly would have been at -97. The question becomes, is 3 out of 15 good enough? Do we know what is causing those 3 misses?

Is it ESCs? Is it the taranis? Is it an inconsistant power issue?

Then you read today over on RCGroups about a guy being sent a special version to fix an issue (didn't mention the issue). So there is recognition of some problems - but no direct conversation between the company and those of is dealing with this arming problem.

 

[mediaguru]

yep. I recall you saying that. I know for sure that I went down to -90. Just didn't get I to the 80's. But certainly would have been at -97. The question becomes, is 3 out of 15 good enough? Do we know what is causing those 3 misses?

Is it ESCs? Is it the taranis? Is it an inconsistant power issue?

Then you read today over on RCGroups about a guy being sent a special version to fix an issue (didn't mention the issue). So there is recognition of some problems - but no direct conversation between the company and those of is dealing with this arming problem.

I understand your implication Moto. Personally I can't help thinking the Taranis has something to do with it since there are other calibration issues like the gain knob we've been discussing. I'm fairly confident (knocking on wood) that as long as the ESC is seeing full throttle down at startup that all is good. Then again, I've been wrong before. Just ask the wife.

 

[Motopreserve]

I had the identical issue when I switched back to the Futaba 14SG

 

[mediaguru]

I had the identical issue when I switched back to the Futaba 14SG

Process of elmination.