Whats the best FPV set up?

[engin]

Hi, first of all, so sorry for my bad english. Thanks for yours reply. I have been thinking 5.8 but dtw suggested to me 1.3ghz.. Because maybe I go away 3-4km. And I fly behind buldings, trees. Yours hexa is very good. I beleive that, you can fly 2km on open area. but many people say 5.8ghz can fly 600m-700m in city center.. Maybe I fly city center I am worried for 5.8ghz. I was going to buy immersionrc 5.8 but now I will buy dragon link transmitter and receiver, x2 1.3 receiver and eagletree and iosd mini and Naza v2..Many people say 1.3 work fine with 5.8ghz. Thanks for reply again...

 

[Gary Seven]

Heres the thing about range.
[[snip]]

Here is a high flight so 2.4 frsky radio and 5.8 can go a long range. Now I also recomend having a hams license and chatting with the pilots in the area to let them know your in the area just like if you were another aircraft. That's the way to do it safely that and file a flight plan date time ect.
[[snip]]

I'm very torn about this post. Although I value the information supplied by @haha49 (and @dtw as well...thanks!), I'm a little upset to see that you sent your MR up to over 7500 ft, if that's indeed what you did per the title of the video. Did you really file a flight plan with the FAA? What kind of airspace are you in where this video was shot?

 

[SamaraMedia]

I have same concerns as Gary on video posted @haha49. Also, @engin, since you state you are new to MR's I would suggest maybe something smaller to get started with rather than a T960 with dslr. It's not wise to jump into a large platform with dslr capabilities with long range intentions as you've suggested especially if you have limited time to learn systems due to small children.

Start slow and small then progress to something a little bigger as your skills get better. Biggest mistake many newbies encounter is thinking they can jump right to a hex or octo with little or no experience. The best videos posted here are by pros that have been flying some type of RC's for years/hrs and many employ a two or three person operation for safety, one to fly, one to operate camera and one to spot the MR. Before worrying about range and video signal I would concentrate on learning the ins and outs of your MR. One of your last posts suggested "fly city center". I would be more concern with losing control of a small sUAV, never mind a T960 with dslr, than video signal. It's not wise to fly over congested areas like cities without proper certification, if Turkey has any, which I image they do.

@dtw, lots of good info offered on vtx choices.

 

[engin]

I have same concerns as Gary on video posted @haha49. Also, @engin, since you state you are new to MR's I would suggest maybe something smaller to get started with rather than a T960 with dslr. It's not wise to jump into a large platform with dslr capabilities with long range intentions as you've suggested especially if you have limited time to learn systems due to small children.

Start slow and small then progress to something a little bigger as your skills get better. Biggest mistake many newbies encounter is thinking they can jump right to a hex or octo with little or no experience. The best videos posted here are by pros that have been flying some type of RC's for years/hrs and many employ a two or three person operation for safety, one to fly, one to operate camera and one to spot the MR. Before worrying about range and video signal I would concentrate on learning the ins and outs of your MR. One of your last posts suggested "fly city center". I would be more concern with losing control of a small sUAV, never mind a T960 with dslr, than video signal. It's not wise to fly over congested areas like cities without proper certification, if Turkey has any, which I image they do.

@dtw, lots of good info offered on vtx choices.

Thanks for reply. Your suggestion is very valuable. Sory for my bad english..I will collect later t960 for aerial photography. I will start F450 or f550. And I will start on open area with go pro ..I am learning about fpv for small quad or hexa and T960. I will use same ground station both.. But I will use different OSD and VTX. I know this work is very dangerous. dtw's suggestions very valuable. He is very good person. Thanks for reply again..

 

[SamaraMedia]

f450 with H3-3D for GoPro would be a good choice to start with, welcome to MRF!

 

[engin]

f450 with H3-3D for GoPro would be a good choice to start with, welcome to MRF!

My ground station will be 12ghz, 1.3ghz 2 receiver (maybe lawmate), eagle eye diversty controller(dtw suggestion), 1.3ghz transmitter ??? and Dragon link UHF tx and rx. OSD Eagletree or Dragonlink OSD...NAZA controller for smaller multirotor. Wokoong for T960...What is your suggestion 1.3ghz transmitter, OSD and antenna..Is tracker system necessary.. Thanks again...

 

[dtw]

I agree with starting small as well. F450 or F550 - there are so many good tutorials on how to build these, and you'll ALWAYS use them, even with a bigger rig - on a windy day or just to do test shots or site surveys, they're really nice to have around.

Oh! And instead of going the DJI route with the H3-3D for a GoPro, I personally started with this:
http://www.arrishobby.com/brushless...pro-hero3-3axis-brushless-motor-gimbal3-p-739

It's a little less expensive and it allowed me to convert from a 1-person rig to a 2-person rig very easily and it works pretty darn well. The DJI stuff just doesn't seem to allow a lot of flexibility. There's no "pan" to the H3-3D, which... of course, you just turn your MR side to side and that's your pan, but on a moderately windy day, having a 2-person rig or at least having the pan set to a control on your transmitter makes a big difference. Just my 2 cents on that - not to mention it's a bit cheaper. This is their 3rd generation of the CM3000Pro and it's pretty tight. I still use mine and use a neutral density filter on the GoPro.

I wanted to address the 5.8GHz thing again, one last time. Today, just now, I changed my config on my quad - stuck my TS832 on it with a cloverleaf antenna. The antenna in the picture is a cheapy - I also swapped and tried it with one from VAS (IBCrazy). I was using my GS920 Boscam goggles AND a Black Pearl 7" monitor with diversity. I don't have a dedicated 5.8GHz receiver like my 1.2/1.3's from RMRC. On my goggles, as you'll see, I have a 5-turn helical antenna, which I also tried my omni's - but the 5-turn helical is much better. Again, this helical is from VAS.

I flew in a straight line - straight line of sight at around 90 to 100 meters altitude. At 2010 feet/613 meters my goggles stopped working. The video was degraded so bad I couldn't go further. Switching to the Black Pearl monitor, I could get another 40 to 50 feet away - maybe a little more. I couldn't make 1km - there's just no way.

I've read that the TS832, while it says 600mw, it's really only about 570mw. So maybe there's "some" difference there. I've just never been able to get a kilometer away with 5.8GHz. I'm guessing that if I bought a 1000mw or 2000mw 5.8GHz transmitter I "might" get there. However, that said, the 2000mw transmitters pull 800mah of power, which is a LOT, I think. Surely that would reduce flight time "some". So the only other test I'd like to do is with an IRC 600/700mw 5.8GHz with my Dominators to see if the receiver is any better, but I'm doubting it will be.

View attachment 22236

Here's the thing, you can start, just like I did and buy the transmitters, monitors and the goggles that do 5.8GHz - spend a ton of money only to discover you have a lot of limitations, or... read up and learn how to use 1.2/1.3GHz. Get yourself a 500mw 1.2GHz transmitter (hobbywireless.com - 500/1000mw 1280/1258 lawmate modified vtx), get a 1.2/1.3GHz receiver with sawtooth filter from readymaderc.com with a VAS mad mushroom antenna (with a multirotor, you'll be hard pressed to outfly the mad mushroom antenna and 1.3 - no reason for an antenna tracker) - get a UHF LRS system and don't waste the thousands of dollars stepping up into this setup. You should definitely start with a smaller multirotor and a GoPro, but just make sure that what you buy to start with, isn't going to be a waste later on.

D

 

[dtw]

Heres the thing about range.

Were you fly makes a world of difference. Big open flat land you can go for miles and miles. Hill well built up area your range is allot less. I use boscam 5.8ghz 400mw and I get 2km before it starts to break up but I was at 400ft in the area and it's an open area that's something to consider. I use mini osd it works great with the naza just plugs right in (dji mini osd) With line of sight 5.8ghz is good enough. If you want to go behind buildings and trees at long range then you want something else.

If you fly line of sight 5.8ghz is fine behind trees and close in 400 is powerful enough. You want 8km of range go with a 2000mw transmiter. Upgrade the attenas it makes a huge difference. I use the boscam clover leaf ones they work really well. Fatshark ones work well too.

How you mount it on the craft makes a huge difference in range I put it on my landing gear with the attena upside down so it clears the lipo that is under it. If I put it on top my range is allot less. Solar storms can ruin your range as well. Also be careful with what radio and video transmiter you use some don't work with each other. 2.4 and 5.8 work fine togther. 1.2 and 2.4 not so much

Airports and planes use 5.8 for weather radar. So if a plane flys over and your using 5.8 your video goes poof till it pass. I noticed that when airlines go over it goes poof for a second then they're gone and it pops back.

I also have used the DJI Waypoint with an ipad..... (it's crap) It works but flaky dropped a hexa right out of the air disconected splat. I don't trust waypoint stuff no thanks just more to go wrong. It doesn't know trees, buildings, powerlines, ect. I rather have a human in control.

Here is a high flight so 2.4 frsky radio and 5.8 can go a long range. Now I also recomend having a hams license and chatting with the pilots in the area to let them know your in the area just like if you were another aircraft. That's the way to do it safely that and file a flight plan date time ect.

Wow, just watched the video. I'm sure you don't have to worry about the FAA much in Canada, but... when you're up so high you can look into the windows of an airliner... you "might" just be a bit too high! (jk)

Nice video, though - I didn't try flying straight up, range wise, but I'm only a little over 5 miles from an airport where I fly, so... I try to keep it under 400 as a rule (let alone the FAA likes to beat that into everyone's head in the U.S.).

 

[engin]

You are excellent. Your suggestions are excellent. I will start small drone. Gimbal okey. 1.2 -1.3 ghz tx rx okey. Antennnas okey but osd??. Dragon or eagletree or ezosd..? Thanks for reply. I want to join small Uav coalition on 1 january as a support member.

 

[dtw]

If you're going to build a small drone, first one, I would use the Naza V2 flight controller. The Eagle Tree stuff really isn't for beginners - at least in my opinion. DJI Naza V2 is an excellent choice and the DJI OSD Mini is a great combo with that.

I will say, the Eagle Tree OSD is really nice, but getting it to work with the Naza V2 is not simple. DJI's OSD is good - definitely more than enough to get comfortable with when just starting out. The things I miss on DJI's OSD are "flight time", "units in imperial and metric" as DJI's OSD only has meteric units (probably not an issue for you), "mah used/available", and "RSSI" is a big one - doesn't exist for DJI. For a beginner, though, these are less important. In fact, even for a Pro (which I am not), these things are not 100% necessary, just nice to have. So go with DJI OSD to start - it's not a waste of money by any stretch.

Would love to have you join the coalition!

 

[SamaraMedia]

I agree with starting small as well. F450 or F550 - there are so many good tutorials on how to build these, and you'll ALWAYS use them, even with a bigger rig - on a windy day or just to do test shots or site surveys, they're really nice to have around.

Oh! And instead of going the DJI route with the H3-3D for a GoPro, I personally started with this:
http://www.arrishobby.com/brushless...pro-hero3-3axis-brushless-motor-gimbal3-p-739

It's a little less expensive and it allowed me to convert from a 1-person rig to a 2-person rig very easily and it works pretty darn well. The DJI stuff just doesn't seem to allow a lot of flexibility. There's no "pan" to the H3-3D, which... of course, you just turn your MR side to side and that's your pan, but on a moderately windy day, having a 2-person rig or at least having the pan set to a control on your transmitter makes a big difference. Just my 2 cents on that - not to mention it's a bit cheaper. This is their 3rd generation of the CM3000Pro and it's pretty tight. I still use mine and use a neutral density filter on the GoPro.

I wanted to address the 5.8GHz thing again, one last time. Today, just now, I changed my config on my quad - stuck my TS832 on it with a cloverleaf antenna. The antenna in the picture is a cheapy - I also swapped and tried it with one from VAS (IBCrazy). I was using my GS920 Boscam goggles AND a Black Pearl 7" monitor with diversity. I don't have a dedicated 5.8GHz receiver like my 1.2/1.3's from RMRC. On my goggles, as you'll see, I have a 5-turn helical antenna, which I also tried my omni's - but the 5-turn helical is much better. Again, this helical is from VAS.

I flew in a straight line - straight line of sight at around 90 to 100 meters altitude. At 2010 feet/613 meters my goggles stopped working. The video was degraded so bad I couldn't go further. Switching to the Black Pearl monitor, I could get another 40 to 50 feet away - maybe a little more. I couldn't make 1km - there's just no way.

I've read that the TS832, while it says 600mw, it's really only about 570mw. So maybe there's "some" difference there. I've just never been able to get a kilometer away with 5.8GHz. I'm guessing that if I bought a 1000mw or 2000mw 5.8GHz transmitter I "might" get there. However, that said, the 2000mw transmitters pull 800mah of power, which is a LOT, I think. Surely that would reduce flight time "some". So the only other test I'd like to do is with an IRC 600/700mw 5.8GHz with my Dominators to see if the receiver is any better, but I'm doubting it will be.

View attachment 22236

Here's the thing, you can start, just like I did and buy the transmitters, monitors and the goggles that do 5.8GHz - spend a ton of money only to discover you have a lot of limitations, or... read up and learn how to use 1.2/1.3GHz. Get yourself a 500mw 1.2GHz transmitter (hobbywireless.com - 500/1000mw 1280/1258 lawmate modified vtx), get a 1.2/1.3GHz receiver with sawtooth filter from readymaderc.com with a VAS mad mushroom antenna (with a multirotor, you'll be hard pressed to outfly the mad mushroom antenna and 1.3 - no reason for an antenna tracker) - get a UHF LRS system and don't waste the thousands of dollars stepping up into this setup. You should definitely start with a smaller multirotor and a GoPro, but just make sure that what you buy to start with, isn't going to be a waste later on.

D

So what fc you using in that quad and what quad is that?

 

[dtw]

That's a Neewer Special! Seriously, it's a cheap cheap frame from Amazon that I bought because I thought it looked kind of cool (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LAPUAI6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and I have a bunch of spare black DJI arms that I figured I could use if I crashed it.

The motors are spare motors I bought for my F550, so they're just 2212 920kv motors from the DJI E300 set. However, I changed the props to 9450's instead of the stock 9443's - which the jury is still out on that, although today when I was flying, they did seem to scoot a bit faster.

The controller is an Eagle Tree Vector, which I do like because the fc, osd, and lc filter are all rolled up into a small box that's lighter weight than the Naza Lite controller by itself. It was easy to install and setup, but I've been tweaking it slowly to dial it in. I really like the OSD and configuration menus within the OSD - makes configuring the gains and PID settings super easy.

That's also the newest DragonLink receiver in the back. It's very lightweight, and 100% configurable with S.bus, PPM, digital and analog RSSI, 12 channel and 8 pins for external connectors. Has a built-in simple spectrum analyzer and very nice features if you're not familiar.

I typically have it setup with a 10g 200mw 2.4GHz transmitter, but lately I've had bad luck with that setup - I have a pair of Dominators being delivered tomorrow with the 2.4GHz module and the 700mw IRC 2.4GHz transmitter. Should give me much better range. Basically, it's just for messing around or testing, as I did today...

 

[SamaraMedia]

I was looking at the Dragon Link complete setup, seemed pretty reasonably priced and easy to install on Futaba. Might have to take a look at Xmas. I've heard some good reports on the Vector from a crew here in NewEngland on FPVLAB, that seems reasonably priced too compared to some FC's. So much to think about after the holidays. Might look to improve my vtx and FC setup on my TBS Disco Pro.

 

[dtw]

Well definitely, for the money, the Vector is so cool if you're really comfortable flying in ATTI mode. So far, GPS mode or "2D Hold Loiter" as the Vector calls it, doesn't quite seem to be as "locked in" as the Naza is. On a windy day, if I were doing videography or photography work, I couldn't rely on the vector to keep me in one spot "tightly"... but then I'm saying this while I've not spent a lot of time trying to dial in the GPS or Loiter mode - adjust the gains, etc. I've been more concerned with tightening up the roll and pitch gains. The altitude hold is great though.

Today I was flying in 3D mode, which has the feel of a NAZE32 or CC3D controller. Quite honestly, I don't think my NAZE32 is anywhere near as good, so that was very cool. I haven't flipped or rolled yet with this quad, but I quickly got the feeling it would do it easily.

I would highly recommend reading the user manual on the Vector before you buy it (http://eagletreesystems.com/Manuals/vector.pdf) - get an idea of how it expects you to setup the OSD, battery leads, etc. It's very different from DJI, but welcomely so...

 

[SamaraMedia]

Yeah, trying to move away from DJI some. Like the ease of NAZA setup but don't like the proprietary nature of some of their gear. Good in some respects but limits flexibility. Looking forward to the Super X but concerned with recent support issues in US.

Got a CC3D I may venture back into for fun

 

[dtw]

Yes! I looked around as well for flight controllers because the Wookong and A2 are just so damn expensive, and they're actually the only ones labeled as "for professional/commercial use" by DJI (not that any of us here in the U.S. would ever use a drone for professional or commercial use, but hey...).

I looked at the Super X as well - but was unsure about how good it'd be (hint hint - would love to hear your opinion). There's also one that Zero Gemini that rctimer sells. I watched a guy flying with that thing and whenever he'd change the mode, the MR he was flying would shake side to side really hard. I have enough adrenaline pumping when I fly - don't need that!

I do like DJI's E300 and E600 kits - been having really good luck with my M680 and E600 setup - I get tired of flying it before the battery dies.

However, OSD and external controllers, etc. just don't integrate well with Naza anything. Once you start seeing RSSI in your screen, you'll never want to drop it. Flight time is also super nice - if you're flying with goggles, the only way to see the amount of time you've been in the air is to remove the goggles and look at your transmitter timers, right? With the Vector, it's right there.

 

[eskil23]

However, that said, the 2000mw transmitters pull 800mah of power, which is a LOT, I think. Surely that would reduce flight time "some".

800 mAh is about 2-3% of what your motors are pulling, so the reduction in flight time will also be something like 2-3%. I would worry more about cooling a 2W power amplifier than the battery capacity.

 

[engin]

If you're going to build a small drone, first one, I would use the Naza V2 flight controller. The Eagle Tree stuff really isn't for beginners - at least in my opinion. DJI Naza V2 is an excellent choice and the DJI OSD Mini is a great combo with that.

I will say, the Eagle Tree OSD is really nice, but getting it to work with the Naza V2 is not simple. DJI's OSD is good - definitely more than enough to get comfortable with when just starting out. The things I miss on DJI's OSD are "flight time", "units in imperial and metric" as DJI's OSD only has meteric units (probably not an issue for you), "mah used/available", and "RSSI" is a big one - doesn't exist for DJI. For a beginner, though, these are less important. In fact, even for a Pro (which I am not), these things are not 100% necessary, just nice to have. So go with DJI OSD to start - it's not a waste of money by any stretch.

Would love to have you join the coalition!

Hi again dtw..It was a long time..I bought hoobywireless 500-1000 international vtx, 2x readymaderc vrx saw upgrated and eagle eyes, 10" monitor, dvr and 2x 4000mah lipo for power, crosshair, bluebeam antenna set that your suggestions. And I bought naza vm2, iosd mini. I will use other lipo for vtx, and I will bought dragonlink set. What your sugeession for ground station case or tripod.. Crosshair on case or on tripod!. Sorry for my bad english..Thanks again for your suggession..

 

[fltundra]

I looked at the Super X as well - but was unsure about how good it'd be (hint hint - would love to hear your opinion).

dtw,
I've been flying the SuperX now for a little over a year and have logged over 60 hrs on it. With out a doubt it's an amazing FC. Just no waypoints, IOC, home lock, or poi. But, GPS lock is rock solid, and absolutely no reports of flyaways. My biggest thing is safety, and SuperX has met those requirements with gold stars. I personally have not had the slightest issue with the X.
Also, I have no affiliation with xaircraft.

 

[dtw]

Hello!

I think the easiest is whatever collapses the smallest/easiest. I have my setup mounted on a tripod with no ground station case. However, this is really a personal preference.

This is not mine, but looks very similar to what I've done.