Whats the best FPV set up?

dtw

dtw

KC1UAV
That is a good rule of thumb, although 5.8Ghz will go much further than 600 feet, if it has a straight line of sight and nothing between the quad and you.

You're confused because I said "relay", I think. For long distances, I do use 1.2/1.3, but my "ground station" is a tripod with a 1.3Ghz receiver, that takes the signal and sends it back out via 5.8Ghz - so it "relays" the signal via 5.8Ghz. That allows me to sit 3 to 20+ feet away using 5.8Ghz goggles to fly with. The other advantage to this is that I have 7" monitors with 5.8Ghz receivers that I can setup to allow spectators to watch.

The reason I do this is because I can use my tripod to elevate the 1.3Ghz antenna, as well as setup different antenna configurations, use diversity, etc.

Without a ground station, I would either have to use a 1.3Ghz module for my Fatshark goggles (which is hard to come by right now), or remain tethered to my ground station.

Here's one example:
 
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David1953

Member
You guys are so flipping smart! It now makes sense why most folks just put on their 5.8 Ghz goggles with a built in receiver and fly within the allowable distance.
Thank you dtw and eskil23 for responding. That was a good video. I've also watched all of Ibecrazy's video tutorial
Asking a lot here, but given your knowledge on the subject, could either or both of you give me a parts list of the necessary items needed to do the following:
Fly FPV from the center of a circle out 1/2 mile in every direction over hills and around trees, no tall buildings. This a very rural area. I want to be able to check fences, check cows etc. and now it's either by ATV, walking or horseback.
I'm going to probably buy a built 550, bare bones, from a local guy on Craigs list. So I'm starting off with no transmitter, but leaning toward a FrSky 9 channel due to cost. Futaba brand looks great, but expensive.
I think I would like to be able to use goggles or screen. Sun glare in Texas during the summer is bad or I would just say a screen monitor. The 5.8 Ghz repeater makes sense so your not hooked up hard and fast to the goggles.
Hope you kind of get what I'm trying to do and will give me some direction. David
 


dtw

dtw

KC1UAV
"Higher end" products can make a difference. Sometimes they make very little difference. You have to understand that this hobby is an odd one. If you're not already into electronics and RF then typically, you'll spend more money in the beginning buying the "ready made" stuff until you learn more, where you'll spend less and maybe even build some of your own parts.

Multicopters just have such a steep learning curve if you're not already into RC in some way. I have flown RC for many years - over the last 6 years, I got into helicopters and then multi's. Even though I knew how to configure Futaba and Spektrum radios really well - understood servos and gyros, built my own helicopters, etc. getting into multirotors was just such a major change.

First, you start with DJI. If you're not an electronic engineer, then you need to buy a DJI 450 or clone and buy a Naza v2 with GPS and get the small OSD unit. Get a decent camera - many of us went the DJI route for camera gimbals as well for Aerial Photography. This is a solid way to learn.

I still like the Naza v2 for AP stuff, but for just flying fun, I'm into mini's and racers. That's a whole other world, where you find out you could have gotten a flight controller for $50 bucks - or even with GPS for under $100. Seems like the more you learn, the more you learn how and where to save money.

Unfortunately, not too many people can define "your" path for you. Buy a few things, make some mistakes or determine which things you want to upgrade. Figure out where you want to spend your money. Play around a bit - crash a few times, etc.

If you really have a lot of obstacles in your way, you're going to need 1.3Ghz - probably ought to just buy a pepperbox antenna. 5.8Ghz is ok, if you've got a great line of sight to all the areas where you'll be flying. If you don't have that, then 1.3 is the way.

Just to start, I really like the hobbywireless.com modified 1000/500mw 1.3Ghz transmitters. Lawmate isn't always good quality, but hobbywireless seems to check the quality before they modify the transmitters, so you know you're getting a decent unit when it comes.

http://hobbywireless.com/12-13-ghz-...1213-ghz-plug-play-transmitter-usa-p-155.html

I'll swear by those forever. However, that and the antenna are probably the only thing I'd get there. Get the 1.3Ghz receivers from RMRC with the saw filters in them. I like those a lot more.

http://www.readymaderc.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11_34_44&products_id=1015
http://www.readymaderc.com/store/in...duct_info&cPath=11_45_52_100&products_id=1288

You "might" be able to get away with a simple omni, like:
http://www.readymaderc.com/store/in...duct_info&cPath=11_45_52_100&products_id=3609

However, if you're flying behind things like a hill and thick trees, there's no substitute for the pepperbox.

I also like RMRC's FPV cameras. You can get inexpensive ones for around $29 bucks. They're 600-700TVL and ok.

I have this camera and several cheap ones:
http://www.readymaderc.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11_62_12&products_id=579

I think it's excellent because of it's speed and dynamic range.

You're going to need to look into LC Filters and learn about voltage regulators, etc. Read up on this, it'll help the quality of your video big time.

I also have Fatshark Dominator v2's and Boscam GS920's. I like the way the Boscam wrap around my face better than the Dominators. However, Dominators have a recorder in them and allow RF modules to be changed out, which for me is quite nice. Still, the Boscam unit is still really great. If you want to be tethered to your RF receiver - which is fine, then you don't need anything beyond

http://www.readymaderc.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11_22_227&products_id=1193

However, you'll always need to be tethered with these. With Dominators or Boscam or Skyzone, you can use them tethered, or setup a repeater/relay ground station like I have. Your choice.

As for transmitters for your RC, I only use Futaba. I have two 14SG's and also several Spektrum radios, but I prefer the Futaba. It's cheap to repair, always works, I know my way around configuring it and it's very configurable. Plus, the new firmware for the 14SG speaks just like many of the expensive radios do, so... I don't know anything about Tarannis, but I hear they're great too.

Currently, I do a lot with DragonLink. The new receiver for DragonLink is small, completely configurable beyond anything I've encountered before, and just works wonderfully well - very lightweight too. You might not need an LRS, but if you do, look into them.

Research, research, research... read the forums and then read some more.

Good luck!
 

dtw

dtw

KC1UAV
Oh! And if you're in the U.S. and you want to fly 1.3Ghz, get your Ham Radio License and get a call sign. You can get away with flying around and using these units without a license, but you learn so much studying for the license exam, I think it's imperative to take it.
 


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David1953

Member
I sure do second Gary's post! Thanks a bunch for all the info and time you took putting it together. I have three pages of notes just on FPV so far and will follow the research theme you suggested. David
 

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David1953

Member
I hope this isn't off topic, but since I'm trying to get out there to 1/2 to 1 mile with FPV using 1.2/1.3 Ghz freq should a person consider Dragon Link gear to improve transmitter too. Or is that overkill? Is there even enough room on a 450 frame for the antenna? Enough separation for NAZA +GPS, video Tx, and Dragon Link? David
 

dtw

dtw

KC1UAV
1280 and 1258Mhz can create harmonics that create some interference with 2.4Ghz. Since 2.4Ghz transmitters use frequency hopping/spread spectrum, it's not a huge deal, but it can reduce your range slightly, especially if you're blasting out 500~1000mw of power with circular polarity within 20 inches of your receiver. However, the way to fix this is to use a low pass filter. You put the 1.3Ghz low pass filter between your video tx and it's antenna. This prevents harmonics above 1.3Ghz.

This has worked for me, and I'll leave it at that. I've been out to 2km with a 2.4Ghz transmitter (with the antenna mounted properly) and 1.3Ghz systems.

You will have to experiment with placing antennas - and yes, you should have plenty of room whether you use an LRS or not. You can put the video transmitter on one of the arms and mount the 1.3Ghz antenna facing down. This works pretty good. Put the 2.4Ghz transmitter in the middle and route the antennas away from the 1.3Ghz, maybe out an opposing arm.

I know a picture is worth a 1000 words, so... here's my 450 sized quad that I fly.

DragonLink does give you some additional benefits. I fly around a great deal of Wi-Fi. 2.4Ghz stops working before 1km in heavily populated areas. For that reason, I like DragonLink because it gives me that assurance that I'm always in control and the only thing I can't fly around are UHF towers.

Remember, though, with Naza+GPS, you're really protected. If you're flying around and you run outside of your transmitter signal, it comes home. At least it starts to come home - and with a flip of a switch, you're back in control again. This is one reason why I really like Naza for beginners - it'll shock you how accurate it is with the return to home feature. Starting out, I lost control of my DJI 550 and it came home. I'd forgotten how to regain control (me not reading the manual well enough), and it literally came all the way home, lowered it's retracts (failsafe mode - learn about that), and landed 3 feet from where it took off, and even landing smoother than I could have done manually! After that, I trusted it a lot. Anything I have carrying a serious camera, I'm either using a Naza v2 or my A2.

So I would suggest that you start with a regular 2.4Ghz system and learn a bit more before you get into LRS systems - but they are pretty awesome.

This rig in my picture is a cheapy Neewer AlienX frame (450 sized), with a GoPro Hero3+, DragonLink, 1.3Ghz 200mw video with an Eagle Tree FC. I don't recommend starting with the Eagle Tree unit, but once you're really into this, check them out. They're less expensive than the Naza. The 3D/rate mode is awesome, but GPS isn't as locked in as Naza. Still, they're very light weight and have built-in OSD which is really really good.
 

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David1953

Member
Great reply. I saw a TBS discovery 450 build today a guy wants to sell that looks a little like it. Thanks again for answering my questions. David
 

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David1953

Member
Thanks dtw. You've certainly helped me and I hope others understand some of this. It really can be a bit overwhelming so I understand when someone says to keep it simple. But, I know for sure now I'd like 1.2/1.3 freq FPV with Go Pro later or start by just strapping it on hard and fast. I bought a soldering iron and tools so I'm gonna do something. :)
Is it fair to say the frame like your photo shows is a little more popular for FPV than the more symmetrical Flamewheel 450? Using the NAZA v2 with GPS and the components you suggested above, how the heck do you figure out which connectors you need to put this together? Do you just buy a tray full of them? Googling RC connectors is a joke for someone who doesn't understand one from the other. The only thing I've figured out is the PDB battery hookup to battery to battery charger should be the same. David
 

dtw

dtw

KC1UAV
Connectors are a personal choice. I have a lot of batteries for my helicopters which use EC5 connectors, so when I started building my M680 multirotor that used 6S batteries the same size, I chose to use EC5 connectors. When I built this quad, I decided I'd try something different. Some of the batteries that I bought from HobbyKing had XT60 connectors, so I gave those a try and I like them actually a bit better than EC5 and EC3 connectors.

Some folks use Deans connectors - I don't like them as they are really hard to pull apart sometimes. I use them on my goggles. Use what you like - what's light weight. There are also size considerations given the appropriate wire gauge for the amperage you need between the battery and PDB. Obviously, you wouldn't want to try to use XT30 connectors with 12AWG wires and 6S batteries. That's more common sense though.

I do recommend these guys:
http://www.progressiverc.com/silicone-wire-and-connectors#page=0&top=1&

If you have any questions, you can call them and ask. They're excellent AND if you need a solid battery charger, I personally have
http://www.progressiverc.com/the-dual-threat-2000w-combo.html

As for the frame that I have, I think it's a decent place to start if your target is FPV. It's cheap, the replacement arms are cheap. Starting with an H-quad, too would be ok:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/..._and_Dirty_LED_Illumination_and_LV_Alarm.html

or

http://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Useful...m_sbs_t_7?ie=UTF8&refRID=0HZVDZQ7T03XF494FHC4

You just want to find something you can fix easily if it crashes - because you will crash. You definitely want to start with something that's inexpensive.

Again, though, remember mine is a pretty cheap setup, and as I said earlier, you "learn" how to do things inexpensively overtime. If you start and try to go cheap, you may wind up wasting a lot of money to build a successful quad, so... Always keep in mind what you're getting - like the H quad that HobbyKing has, it has a PDB built-in with a buzzer and LEDs. I had to add my LED lights (although they're much cooler), and add a PDB, and I don't have a buzzer, but I have OSD, etc. So plan the whole thing out.

The difference between the H-quad and mine is my props sometimes show up in my GoPro - which I don't like. The H quads keep the props away from your camera... If you don't care so much about aerial photography then either setup is good.
 

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David1953

Member
Many many thanks for responding. Some or most of this is redundant to you all that have done this a bunch, so I reaaly appreciate your time in answering. David

And thanks for the links too
 

dtw

dtw

KC1UAV
...last thing, I was just reading about this hobbyking H quad, it does not have great reviews. Seems it has issues with the screws and soldered switch. See, I wouldn't have an issue with that because I have thousands of screws lying around and I'm sure I could replace the stand offs and screws with something I have lying around. Not to mention, I solder a lot, so re-soldering the switch would just be an annoyance. So do read the reviews. I will say that many manufacturers pay attention and fix things like this quickly, so if you read an old review, it might not be accurate - but these reviews were recent, so... I can't recommend that unit - was just pointing it out. I can recommend mine - it is a decent kit.
 

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David1953

Member
Ok thanks for the heads up. I know this could go on ad nauseam, but since I'm ordering stuff, using the NAZA v2 and adding iSOD mini, should I get the can bus adapter?
 

dtw

dtw

KC1UAV
I'm pretty sure you don't need that. It's only if you need more CAN bus ports, which you shouldn't. You'll plug the iOSD into the Naza and the Naza into the PMU. I have one because I setup the 2.4Ghz Bluetooth Datalink to my laptop at one point. I've used it once... Haven't touched it since.
 

eskil23

eskil23

Wikipedia Photographer
dtw said:
I'm pretty sure you don't need that. It's only if you need more CAN bus ports, which you shouldn't. You'll plug the iOSD into the Naza and the Naza into the PMU. I have one because I setup the 2.4Ghz Bluetooth Datalink to my laptop at one point. I've used it once... Haven't touched it since.
Click to expand...
Well, I guess that he can unplug the iOSD if he ever needs the BDU. It should not be nessecary to have then both plugged in at the same time.
But the GPS on the other hand...
 

dtw

dtw

KC1UAV
I think I have my iOSD plugged into my PMU, actually. So GPS into FC, PMU into FC, and iOSD into PMU.

If you then have a Bluetooth cable, you can plug that into the iOSD as it has a port as well.
 


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