first build thread: lessons and learning to follow...

[jbrumberg]

Those collet/spinner prop hub connector thingie things. I have no clue where "nacelle" came from; but somewhere in my RC travels or wind turbine stuff. Actually I looked it up- it's a streamlined enclosure- not quite accurately used the way I was using it here.

 

[Motopreserve]

I like this new type much better. The adapter fits tightly over a a raised part on the bell and then screws on. Seems more secure to me, without actually putting them to use in the field yet.

I think the pancake style appear the best - where the prop screws right to the motor bell. But then again, I'm sure that creates another set of issues...

 

[COMike93yj]

Hi Guys!

Your new motors from Paul look kind of similar to what mine look like (Sunnysky 2216 900KV)....the prop adapter on the sunny's have three little threaded bolts that attach it to the bell. The prop adapters came with both a nut and the "pointy thingy"...LOL that goes on the top. I have no earthly idea how I would use it because when the prop is on the shaft, there is very little room for it to be threaded onto the shaft. I am going to just fly with the nut on (eliminate the possibility of the cone being out of balance). While I think the cone's "look cool" they just add weight and the nut should be fine to hold the prop in place. I am going to try and get some of the nylock ones in the future but for now I will be using threadlocker on the nuts.

I haven't researched much on the pancake style motors. They look "sleek" to me from an aesthetics standpoint.

I am glad you guys got the HobbyKing motor issue resolved. I would hate to have to go through that headache. It would be a horrible experience to order a "replacement" thinking it was 1100KV and it turned out that it was in reality a 1000Kv......OUCH!!!!

 

[slow_jun]

H Scott,

thanks for the reply, I would take your advise the kk2 and would just upgrade down the road. i'm now just thinking what setup to get to carry total weight of 2-2.5KG quad, I know the 15mns flight time is a bit hard to achieve but I can try...

jun.

Jun,

multiwii version 2.2 definitely does RTH and altitude hold. Also a bunch of other stuff. The newest version is 2.3, and adds waypoints. I have not installed it yet though, so I can't vouch for that myself. It seems people are having decent luck with it from what I've read. These boards are not for everyone. It certainly will take more effort than a KK2.1.

Realize that multiwii takes some research and there are more variables to fine tune. But at the end of the day, it offers a ton of functionality for the money. If you decide to go this route - I would definitely suggest going with a Witespy version, because he pre-programs the firmware for exactly what you order - and it's cheap. Then you can make changes as you become more comfortable with the programs and interfaces. Many people complain about the shipping times (he can get backed up with orders), but for something this complicated, I think it's worth it.

If you're excited to get flying as quick as possible, I would suggest the KK2 (you can always upgrade), if you have more time on your hands and like the challenge - try multiwii.

Scott

 

[Motopreserve]

Jun,

What frame are you using? Do you already have the motors/ESCs etc???

 

[slow_jun]

Hi Scott,

I was plan on using the same fram you are using and will just need to add a landing gear coz i need to add a gimbal for my go prop plus fpv. No parts yet,still building my BOM(build of materials), can you suggest which motor esc if my gross weight with all the stuff will be 2.3kg, that of course is with a 2 3s lipo 5000mah. I camputed using 800kv motor with 12 prop to have an approx mixed flight time if 8-10 mins..dont know if that is sufficient to carry all that load..but the calc show 68% trottle.. Will that be ok?


Sent from my Nokia Star Tac using Tapatalk

 

[Motopreserve]

You ideally want to be closer to 50% throttle (some say up to 60% is ok). At almost 70% you would not have much room to maneuver quickly if need be.

The x650f frame comes with the landing gear and the bars needed to mount a gopro gimbal if that's what you're looking for. The landing gear is not very sturdy, though it doesn't break as much as "come loose" upon crashing. Hopefully you'd have some flying experience before slapping on the gimbal anyway.

I think ink you'd be looking at getting something closer to what I have for motors. 1000kv. Or possibly some shorter/wider, more robust motors like the sunnysky 3108S 900kv. They have decent thrust with 11" props.

 

[jbrumberg]

I agree with Scott about 68% of throttle. That's a large power requirement. I would stay away from all the fancy motors, props, add ons, etc. and weight until you have everything set up, tuned, and are flying comfortably. Once you start changing stuff you'll have to readjust and retune some of your settings.

 

[Motopreserve]

Jay is right. Unless you have a lot of flying experience - cheapest motors to get you airborne are probably best. You're most likely going to crash the thing. Better to spend under $10 on some replacements than a bunch of cash right out of the gate.

 

[slow_jun]

Thanks Scott,

that's what I get in Ecalc, will be using 1000KV. I just confused with the "All up weight, add payload and weight? duno which will be the max weight the copter can handle when using ecalc. just not sure why there are many weights....

You ideally want to be closer to 50% throttle (some say up to 60% is ok). At almost 70% you would not have much room to maneuver quickly if need be.

The x650f frame comes with the landing gear and the bars needed to mount a gopro gimbal if that's what you're looking for. The landing gear is not very sturdy, though it doesn't break as much as "come loose" upon crashing. Hopefully you'd have some flying experience before slapping on the gimbal anyway.

I think ink you'd be looking at getting something closer to what I have for motors. 1000kv. Or possibly some shorter/wider, more robust motors like the sunnysky 3108S 900kv. They have decent thrust with 11" props.

 

[Motopreserve]

All up weight, or AUW is the weight of the entire quad/craft with all components calculated. Payload is what you can carry. The other weight is under the battery heading - seems like it would be the total weight of the batteries.

You out have calculated as a hex. You need to fix: # of rotors! prop type, choose a battery from the list that fits what you'll buy - not custom, and if you're getting a frame like mine - the "model weight" should be 650.

 

[slow_jun]

Thanks, now I understand, I was just thinking of using a hexa coz for plans on adding up some equipment's later.but after some clarifications I think will just do the quad.

 

[Motopreserve]

Unless you plug in the numbers exactly, eCalc won't work. Once calculated, the payload capacity will tell you roughly how much load you can haul. That's where you figure out how heavy gimbal/camera weighs and if it works within those parameters.

 

[Motopreserve]

Catastophic failure...

Well, the weather finally decided to climb above 30 today for the first time in what feels like forever.

Decided to head out to the driveway to test some of the "fixes" I thought I had made. Fired it up, re-calibrated the mag/compass, and lifted off. I was just testing/hovering, maybe in the air for 2 minutes or less, when it suddenly flipped. Smack! Right down on the ice/snow. I saw some pieces come rolling off, and a strange ESC beeping (I think) began. Powered it down and picked up the mess...

Back inside I realized that many of the multiwii board pins were bent and the GPS module that rides on top was busted too. I had purchased a dome that was too small, and for half a second before I went outside I thought about crudely strapping a CD spindle cover over the top. But I didn't. Should have....



I took the quad apart to get at all the parts. When I got all the pins straightened on the multiwii board - I decided to plug it back in with the bare minimum. Just RX and the ESC/motors. Unfortunately, the Rx was not getting power from the board. Pulled the FC and hoked the ESC/motors up as if I was recalibrating. The Rx turned on with just battery to the ESC/motors. So at this point, it looks as if the board is not sending 5v to the Rx. I don't see any damage to the board other than the bent pins - but who knows. Might be something small like a trace line that I can't see.



Turned out that when I fired up just the Rx, ESCs and motors, one motor was not spinning. It looked as if it was trying (has SOME power), but not good. I swapped the motor for a fresh one, and the same thing happened. Then I noticed that this ESC was warm. I need to swap that ESC to see if it will spin the motor properly. Fortunately, I have extras of all this stuff. Looking like it could have been caused by and ESC failure???

I'm going to take advantage of the whole quad being apart to begin my layout again. Not sure if I will need to replace the board or not. Might have to. Certainly cemented the idea that this was a learning quad...

 

[jbrumberg]

Scott- OMG. When I saw your title header.... I hope you can figure out what happened.... Hang in there.

I did not get out today due to a doctor appointment. If the weather cooperates tomorrow and I get a chance to get in the air, what happened to you today will weigh heavily on my mind. I think that you said it well- these first builds are learning quads. These post mortem forensic studies of ours are definitely frustrating. Learning experiences for us and hopefully for others as well.

I am sorry this happened, but I know you well enough to know that you'll salvage what you can and get back in the air as soon as possible.

Jay

 

[Motopreserve]

Thanks jay. No worries. I've got my health, and I'm back up off the mat already! Already took the quad almost entirely apart. Really thinking that this may be some type of ESC failure. The warmth and lack of motor spin in that one seems a bit too coincidental.

The only reason I reserve judgement is that that is definitely not the corner that I remember dipping in the split second before the crash. But it happened SO fast. Might have to gets new FC, but the witespy stuff is cheap as hell. I'm too far in to this multiwii to back out now

Hope the doc was ok, and good luck on your weather/flight tomorrow. I'll be watching....

more details on the rebuild to follow...

 

[mbowser]

Sorry to hear about the crash. Hope you can sort things out and figure out why you flipped. If it makes you feel any better, I had a good crash today and broke 2 props and bent one of the arms when the quad decided it wanted to fly hard into a willow tree.
It was a dumb place to fly, but there was a small area over the septic tank that was snow free so I thought I'd give it a try. Oh well...
Good luck

-matt

 

[Motopreserve]

Thanks matt. These things happen. I'm not too worried about it. Your heart sinks when you first see the pieces, but raises when you realize you can just fix it and move on. I am itching to get some real practice time in though - and with very little breaks in the northeast weather - I'm more pissed about wasting a potentially good weekend for flying than anything else.

sorry to hear about your crash as well. Seems we are all learning the hard way

 

[mbowser]

I would give just about anything for a soft grassy field about now to get some practice.

 

[coreyperez]

It must be something in the air.. (or not wanting to be in the air).

I just finished my two builds, (no flights yet) and decided to put power to my “Honey Badger” with the KK2.1 in it. It started doing the “Fish out of water” deal. While messing with it a little trying to figure out which way it was flipping (it flipped different directions every time) it snapped a complete arm right off.

Observations:
I’m sure it’s one of the 1.2 million different settings between the FC and the TX, but when I would idle up, it would go, creep up (as I’m creeping it up) and get to the point where it was getting close to lifting off and then go APE S#IT and give me an introduction to aerobatics. NOT COOL KK! It was close to 60ish % (I was using a 5000mah battery when I should have been using a 2000mah, just didn’t have the connectors yet).

I called it a night at that point and turned off the lights, took a shower and went to bed. This morning I did a damage assessment and replaced the arm. (Came with a spare one and I ordered x2 more with the kit). One thing to note, the quad is NO WHERE NEAR as robust as I initially was lead to believe. Its 70ish deg in the building where I was trying to get it up and so it’s not because it was cold outside that it snapped so easily.

Other observations:
I thoroughly checked the rotation of the motors. No less than 3 times. (x-Quad) and even verified the information on the internet (because THAT is always correct). But, the short of it is, the trailing edge of #3 (one that broke) has a chip in the trailing edge of the prop, just one end. Like it bent back. Obviously wouldn’t think it would do that if rotating properly. BUT… I KNOW I checked it.

Well, I’m putting that one aside for right now, especially since I don’t have the correct battery strapped to it, and focusing on my F550 again. It’s basically ready, EXCEPT for a quick controller question I’m about to ask on the Group Build forum (controller config, finding conflicting information about (from top to bottom in the mixer (using a Turnigy 9XR, I’m sure it’s the same on all of them) is it:
Throttle
Aileron
Elevator
Rudder

~or~
Aileron
Elevator
Throttle
Rudder


I’ve seen both (in YouTube videos) where they say “It works for me…”

Thanks!

Corey