first build thread: lessons and learning to follow...

[Motopreserve]

Corey, sorry about the crash. Glad you had the extra arms though - at least you can get back up in the air quickly. I might suggest you stick with the quad that crashed - so that the issue stay fresh in your mind. You might get it dialed in quicker if you wait to take on a whole new set of issues with the F550.

Anyway, im sure I understand your final question??? What are you looking to do? Something in the Tx? Or plugging in to the RX???

 

[jbrumberg]

I am almost paranoid to try to fly sometime later this AM, now with this crash business going around. It looks like I have a decent window of weather opportunity here, but today is also "Dump Day" and wifey is coming home this coming Wednesday after a 3 weeks away for family business and DEP asnd hazmat teams could be in my life if I do not take care of environmental hygiene concerns around here. Corey with your Tx/Rx it goes: Channel 1-AIL, Channel 2- ELE, Channel 3- THR, Channel 4- RUD, and Channel 5- Self Leveling. The other order is for the other Tx protocol(s).

 

[Motopreserve]

And then you just have to make sure that the FC is looking to get it in that order to complete the loop. Mine is set up like Jay's is through to the RX. Then the multiwii has a schematic for where the outputs want to be seen. Draw a diagram on paper so that you can plug it in easy - and have for reference at a later date.

I I think the visual diagram helped cement it in my mind, after reading too many text descriptions.

 

[jbrumberg]

I will never claim myself to be an artist.

 

[Motopreserve]

That's all you need though - art or not. It just helps to have it right in front of you. Also, depending in the wire harness between components - you can add the colors to the wires. Make it stupid simple to avoid issues later.

And jay. Don't be paranoid. You just have to keep telling yourself that this is the learning process. It's going to happen. I had the same anxiety before heading out yesterday, ensuring that I triple check everything - and then my fear manifested itself in a crash. Proof positive that even the best laid plans...

 

[coreyperez]

Moto & J,

I believe I’ve got the settings correct in the Controller. Its AIL 1[SUP]st[/SUP]. There were just conflicting videos with similar equipment using different settings. I figured before I get the 550 out and flip it too, for a simple TX setting I'd ask.

I also don’t really know that I’d consider it really a “Crash”, more a result of dynamic roll over… It never REALLY left the ground. I’d read before people suggest “popping” it up, vs. a nice slow lift off. I dn’t know if I can bring myself to do that yet. Granted, if I keep beating this thing up I”ll have to try another method. It (the Honey Badger w/the KK2.1) has an OBVIOUS tendency to want to flip. I think giving it more throttle will just give it more momentum IN the flip. Once again, I’m going to have to set that one aside because of the battery issue. That 3s 5000mAh is just too darn big. Once I get my other connectors in, I’ll get it wired up properly. I also need to finish the 550 and go back and check the motor rotation on the HB. It would be ideal to stick to the one that flipped/crashed, but right now I’d just be awaiting parts. I’ve taken good notes and stuck them to the frame so I remember right where I was (check lists basically).


J,

Since you posted that photo again, it got me thinking again. With numerous photos out, videos as well everybody is only using one power wire on each of the ESC and RX side of things. I’ve currently got all my power wires running from the ESCs to the FC and slimmed down on the RX side. There I’ve got 3 or 4 power wires running back to the RX. It seems somewhere I seen a person claiming that you SHOULDN’T use all the power wires from the ESC to the FC. Something about frequency pulses or something? Do you have any info to support this? I can cut the remaining power wires (I’d like to leave x2 in the event the “ONE” craps out and takes all the power with it. Basically a redundant power source if you will. Provided it isn’t causing a problem. Same with the RX.

I appreciate you guys also offering to help with the MultiWii. That thing right now is just too much (labor intensive) researching requirement. It got it to use to learn and experiment, but right now, just getting these things to lift up semi-even is too much of a complication.

One LAST KK question (for this post). I was trying to lift it off the ground, full manual. It occurred to me at some point today, should I have been trying to do it with “Self Leveling” on? It seems to me that may have helped…

Corey

 

[Motopreserve]

Sorry Corey, I forgot that the HB was a battery issue and that you were waiting for parts. Good call on keeping the notes attached - that should help when you return to that project.

In regards to the flipping, it seems I have read a TON about this happening when the prop(s) were reversed, or the ESCs were not calibrated to all have maximum/minimum throttle equal. Just triple check those two things - and maybe you'll get lucky and have that be an easy answer. I also think it's important to be able to lift off in the ACRO mode (no leveling or other influence) so that PID can be tuned from a base standard, and then you begin using the leveling etc. At least that's the way to do it with Multiwii. The effect of the ground will be seen when lifting off - which is why people suggest "popping" up. But the effect should be more like it tipping back and forth a bit - not flipping violently.

The issue with the power wires running to the Rx: I think the concern is redundancy of both the power and the ground. The more you send to the Rx, the more issues it might create, when it really only needs one connection to function. So the common consensus (and this is something it seems everyone agrees on) is since you don't need it, don't run it. If you look at THIS wire harness (this is just an example, as I think most FCs don't accept this type of small white plug), it has the wires for signal from all 4 ESCs, and only the wires for power and ground from one ESC - just 6 wires total. This way power and ground is consolidated to only what's needed. Again, this follows the stupid simple rule. No need to offer up more than you need, which can cause conflicts, especially when you ideally want one common ground.

I have seen where people just remove the power and ground cables from the servo connectors, and then wrap/heat shrink them so they can't short out. This way you can have them again if need be.

 

[jbrumberg]

I've read all kinds of stuff about only one powered ESC going to from Motor #1, but the KK literature says it does not matter so I have left all mine powered. Some builders just bend back that pin. I still do not like self-leveling It seems to get me in the most amount of trouble. I am not going to use it for my first flight today or at least until I get lift off and can check things out. Even my S-L PI gains and limits are really low. I got to work on those. Matt uses S-L a lot and it seems to work for him.

 

[coreyperez]

I have seen where people just remove the power and ground cables from the servo connectors, and then wrap/heat shrink them so they can't short out. This way you can have them again if need be.

That is exactly what I was thinking of doing. (Probably read it somewhere).

Well provided WX clears up and stays that way I'll probably try and get the 550 up. The only real issue I see (my flying area) is there is a parking garage to the east (4 floors) and a new 6 story building going up due South. I can drive else where but this would just be nice and easy to fly in. Its about 2/3's the size of a football field. I'm hoping the buildings don' cause a problem. Worst case, I'll go for a drive and head to a muddy field I found. Blah.

Thanks or the support!

Corey

 

[coreyperez]

I've read all kinds of stuff about only one powered ESC going to from Motor #1, but the KK literature says it does not matter so I have left all mine powered. Some builders just bend back that pin. I still do not like self-leveling It seems to get me in the most amount of trouble. I am not going to use it for my first flight today or at least until I get lift off and can check things out. Even my S-L PI gains and limits are really low. I got to work on those. Matt uses S-L a lot and it seems to work for him.

Best of luck on the flight!

What gains are you using? I use the stock (out of the box), only because I heard so many people say "It fly so great out of the box!"

They must have put mine in the wrong box..

Corey

 

[jbrumberg]

I just go back from a successful flight. ecalc is pretty accurate for my rig I got pretty close to 11 minutes of a meandering hover in generally calm conditions with a light breeze on occasion ranging up to 4mph. That balance lead low voltage alarm set to 3.4V is loud enough to hear at 15'. I kind of freaked and did not land in the predetermined LZ spot though, and landed in some deeper "flat" snow. I came down nice and soft but settled too low on one side as I rpm'd down getting snow into two motors. Got the quad back in and removed the props and ran the motors a bit to melt and clear the snow from the motors. I did not engage S-L for this flight. I'll get my settings and paste them. Other than not hitting my planned LZ it was a good flight. I better do a better job on picking out the LZ, but I got distracted by the low voltage alarm.

Edit add: These are my settings Roll/Pitch P-gain 60 limit 20 I-gain 60 limit 20 Yaw P- gain 60 limit 20 I-gain 60 limit 20 Self-level P-gain 0 limit 0. There appears to be some degree of self leveling at 0, but I did not engage it this flight.

 

[Motopreserve]

Jay, great work!!! Always good for the soul to have a successful flight. Or at least good for the ego .

I really think hunk that getting the quad airborne in ACRO mode and making sure it's balanced in that way is best. THEN, and only then do you start working on self-leveling. I think it's important to make sure the baseline is as stable as possible (PID, Tx trims etc) before any type of aid kicks in. That way the aid makes it better, not trying to save you from a disastrous initial setup.

Also, I think the alarm is just a guide. They are not always spot on accurate, nor will should the craft drop from the sky if you make your way back to the LZ. I think you can also set it to trigger at 3.7 if that makes you more comfortable.

My quad is completely apart and going back together with some changes to the layout. "Oh, the horror...."

 

[jbrumberg]

Some of the KK board tuning videos tell you not to have S-L engaged during the testing phase probably for the reasons you mentioned, but they mumble it and say it real fast. That alarm was a first time distraction. I do not need anymore distractions at this stage of my learning curve. I do not think it will throw me off like it did the next time I had it beeping and my Tx alarm beeping all at the same time. They both were bleeping beeping distractions- I lost my focus, did not re-focus, plain and simple on the landing. I hope that I can get out again today; but I am feeding another battery now. My charger can handle 2 3S batteries at 1C charge if I buy one of those charging balance board things. I need to research this out and think abut it before wifey returns. It will be easier to get RC stuff now rather than later. I could end up living up near Corey somewhere if I am not careful, and I am way too old and no waay even close to passing any kind of any kind of physical for any of the services, even the human services.

 

[jbrumberg]

Well I too joined the crash of the week club on my second flight, and it was a good one too. I was flying around in some light wind (~7 mph at 8'; trouble for me is I was up ~30' and I caught some wind up there that just overpowered the quad and I could not get it back down lower and safer in time. I got all kinds of extra points on cartwheels and prop parts flying and the dome and my landing gear setup bouncing along in the snow. Snow and more snow was everywhere in all the internals :hororr: everywhere. It was bad enough that I broke out my air compressor to blow out all the snow and moisture out of everything everything. After I dried it all out I checked everything out. My damage assessment. Ego took a hit (no big deal there). The board seems ok everything checks out, ESC's seem ok, motors seem ok. Test runs indoors -everything seems to be operating OK. Landing gear- popped some hot glue rivets. I did bend another aluminum motor base plate. So I will be working at bending that back into alignment. Everything else seems to in alignment; but I need to take a much closer look-see on that I am pretty anal about my perpendicular's with this setup. I needed something to do anyway. Who wants to be flying all the time anyways?:strawberry:

That's the news.

 

[Motopreserve]

Oh man! Hell of a weekend. At least it seems to be checking out OK, unlike my quad...

As an update, I have tracked down why the ESC/motor was not acting quite right yesterday during post crash tests. Yesterday the motor was not spinning quite right - so I swapped out the ESC for a fresh one I had (already flashed and soldered from my first batch of purchases). Plugged it in, and nothing. Not juice to the motor in the basic calibration setup, removing the FC from the equation. So I began to think that possible my cheap PDB was the culprit...

To get to the power distro board I had to take the whole quad apart. I had wedged it underneath making it impossible to get to. Figured this was a good time to rethink my setup and neatness of the build.

In the photo below you can see a bit of the PDB through the center hole. Had to remove the plate above it to get to it. Despite not looking bad, for some reason the one set of connected female bullets are not passing power. Time to solder up my own distro harness. Simple and apparently safer than this $3 HK distro board! The offending board shown 2 pics down...





Once I got the whole thing apat the work desk became a nightmare - going to need to get that organized before I can begin soldering.



While putting the rig back together I decided to check the arms for being on true. I think they may have been slightly off before - which would certainly make the FC have to work a bit harder to maintain what it considers to be the perfect X config.



After realizing the PDB was the issue, I ran some power to all ESCs through a cheap (not usable permanently - it's another $3 HK buy), and the Rx lit up just as it should.

I'm now on to testing the multiwii board, which is not passing 5v to the Rx. I'm afraid that this FC is shot. Great!

 

[Motopreserve]

Couldn't shake the feeling that I needed this thing fixed. So I slapped together a quick wiring harness for power distribution. Should work well, and having done it myself - I'll know it should hold up... Like an idiot, I decided to throw it on the scale. 61 grams!!! Good grief. Twice as heavy as the crap PDB that blew out.



im still thinking the FC is fried in some weird way. I'll have to place an order for that for this week. I have Moto stuff in supposed to be getting done this week anyway - so the wait can begin from witespy...

 

[jbrumberg]

"Couldn't shake the feeling that I needed this thing fixed. So I slapped together a quick wiring harness for power distribution."

Great minds minds think alike. Crazy minds tend not to although I saw some interesting "parallels" of psychotic thinkings and even rarer, a faux a' deux in my vocational adventures before retirement. Scott and I are, well.....

My 2 major crashes followed a similar pattern and actually crashed in the same area. I am not the greatest flyer, and I am not ruling out the wind effects above treeline, but this loss of control thing is really bugging me. I will put my X1's in a similar situation and try to model the flight events. It's not a perfect comparison, but I actually tuned my quad build to fly similarly to my X1's. So there is some basis for comparison at least in basic stick responses. And more flying practice would not hurt me apparently either :highly_amused: Anyways back to the minds-

In keeping with possible signal loss and since everything was now back to parts I set the KK board back up to its base mount and rewired the servo connectors to just the #1 ESC, the RX, the KK board, and the breakout cable. When I reconnected to the battery I could go into the Rx test mode and start to look at signal strength. Well I had good signal strength with this basic arrangement up to 50'. I am going to test this a little more for distance later. That is good to know at least, but I will reexamine this when I get everything rebuilt.

 

[coreyperez]

What about doing a range check? Its my understanding that the TX goes into a lower power setting. I could be wrong, but its an option if you think its a radio thing.

Corey

 

[Motopreserve]

I thought that's what a jay was doing with the 50 feet test????


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[coreyperez]

Uh... .I just seen that. Reading too fast. I got caught up with him flying it and I grouped it all together.

Corey