first build thread: lessons and learning to follow...

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
Thanks for the link to buddyRC. Not sure how I missed that one. They seem to carry quality products.

Ill have a video coming shortly - probably after I return hone this weekend. Complete with tradgic crashes and triumphant recoveries :)

While I didn't have a proper camera mount, I went ahead and rubber banded it as seen in the photos earlier in this thread. It was nice to just get a camera up in the air, since this was my goal all along...

Sorry you guys are stuck in the waiting game. That's always the worst!!!
 

COMike93yj

Still Building!
Scott,

I am NOT an expert on here at all but please correct me if I am wrong.

If you set up the multiwii controller to fly w/o the GoPro could that have something to do with the issue when you took off. Did you recalibrate everything.

The reason I ask is depending on where you mounted the GoPro could it have shifted the CG or even put a lean on your copter...wouldn't have to be that noticeable....and that could have thrown off the way it stabilizes itself? I have no idea how these things work but that might have caused a problem....do you think so????

BTW...great job on getting her airborne again!!!!

Jay,

I have a couple of HP power supplies on the way so I can build my own. I have been looking at many chargers and am looking at the iCharger 308Duo right now. Extensive thread over at RC Groups with some firmware issues but that screen is amazing and gives me all the information I could ever want. Meanwell PSU's are supposed to be EXTREMELY reliable from what I have read.

I just got my two DJI flamewheels from ClubHeli (thanks Bart for getting us the group build discount!) along with 8 Tarot LED strips (at $0.69 a piece I couldn't pass up getting a bunch!).

Keep up the great work Scott!!!!! I can't wait to see you post a video. I do so want to see the crashes and recoveries....not because they would be amusing to me but to learn how a new person such as myself might react in a similar situation!
 

jbrumberg

Member
I am building "character" with this waiting business. I agree with Mike about the GoPro's weight possibly throwing off COG enough to throw off the programmed in stabilization settings. But this is coming from a guy with no actual flight experience with a home built quad so I am probably talking from where the sun does not shine.:stupid::stupid:
 

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
I hear what you guys are saying - but the basic calibration is done by spinning the craft on all axis by hand. That just gets the mag compass and acc setup. That wouldn't be effected by the COG I don't think. The crashes I had was because I FORGOT to get the stabilization on correctly :) once I got that straight - it stabilized great. It still needs tweaking for its speed and accuracy of self-correction , but ultimately the issue was me.

As as my old boss (taught me everything I know about audio engineering) used to say when I messed up: "don't worry about it, it's human error...and you're the human!" :)

I think the weight forward due to GoPro can be dialed out with the TX trim. i didn't even even get into the GPS stuff. Figured I'd get comfortable first. Heading back to Vermont tomorrow - so probably won't get a lot of flight time for a while...
 

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
Well, here's some "lessons & learning" for you - keeping with the thread title. After typing that last post about not being able to fly for a while, I remembered my one battery was fully charged. Knowing this shouldn't be transported/stored this way, I decided to head to the backyard for some night flying. Figured I could keep it fairly steady, and maybe get a hint of potential hover time. Was flying great, the LEDs with the yard flood lights were enough to keep track of it.

Getting close to low battery, I decided to spin the thing around. Just a simple spin (you can probably see where this is headed...). Lost track of it for a second and it came smashing into a stone wall at my feet. Crack, bang, boom! GPS and flight controller came popping off, 2 cracked props, and it looked a mess. Brought it inside to get a better look and it turns out the nylon stand offs I used took the brunt of the force, and they let go, allowing the PCBs to remain in tact. Very lucky, and a HUGE argument for the use of these plastic/nylon hardware. At least while the learning/practicing is still happening. $3 props and 10¢ hardware can be replaced easy enough. Just glad it looks like the main gear is ok. I'll test it of course when I get home.

Be careful out there - and don't fly for the sake of burning batteries, fly for flying! I chose to make this a moment of zen, focused more on the fact that I know how to fix this, and less about the broken bits...

 

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
Some video...

Here you go folks... Complete with crashes, decent landings, plumber's crack, and finally some aerial vide :)

 
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jbrumberg

Member
Scott- I want to thank you and your cameraman for the video. Really good stuff. I am drooling now. I really am curious now about COG and FCB compensation. I still have lot's of time to research this and questions to ask. On my little quads (3 axis gyro) balance was really important to performance; I know it is a function of scale, but there is still (or I think there should be) a proportional relationship as to performance and balance (at least with 3 axis gyro). I really do not know. Tests with a small RTF 6 axis quadcopter are not feasible for this guy at this point in time. Wifey is "none too happy" about this RC stuff already. :black_eyed: I could not pull off another (even "cheap") RTF 6 axis quad buy without serious negative consequences…. :miserable: The "For the sake of science" defense would be quite inflammatory. :hororr:
 

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
I'm certainly going to be tweaking and trying to ensure this thing stays stable as best it can. But I know that the minute I plugged it in (when I didn't have the WRONG function switch selected) it balanced itself just fine. But my center of gravity was all centered nicely to begin with. The only drift I got was when I put on the unbalanced prop (after the crash). I was not surprised by that drift at that point. Even with the camera on it I had fairly stable flight when I let go of the stick.

I think the gyros calibrate themselves on the level surface on startup (and for multiwii there is a calibration you do when initially setting it up to) - and then they correct the quad for weight issues while airborne based on that assumed static "level." I think the key is to try to have basic COG so that they don't have to correct too much. That's when you get wobble , which in the multiwii can be tuned out or minimized with the PID settings/adjustments.

Plenty to learn still, but I'm getting closer....slowly! :)
 



jbrumberg

Member
Vicarious, peripheral learning in the truest sense going on here Scott. You break :hororr:…. I learn :). I want to thank you for sharing your learning curve. I am a poor man, and I am certainly not getting any richer.
 
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COMike93yj

Still Building!
Way to go Scott!!!! Thanks for the video! I really enjoyed it! Video quality was pretty good for the first flight only a little bit of Jello!

What did you use to edit the movie that you posted up?

FedEx/UPS/USPS has been arriving frequently the past two days. I have my F450 frames, LED's, Weller WESD51 soldering station, Keller 60/40 solder, my two HP server power supplies, and some misc other things! I probably won't get to the build until after the new year as I still need props/motors/escs/batteries and a charger but they should be "on order" Monday or tuesday.

I can't wait to be able to start building and then the real LEARNING process will happen when I start trying to get the KK2.1 working!!!

Proud of you buddy! Glad you got her airborne and now the fun begins!!!!!
 

jbrumberg

Member
Good luck to you as well Mike. That's a really nice soldering station. I look forward to your continued postings :) I wish I could add more than just my cheerleading and non-build related comments currently. I would not mind breaking a prop or two at this point and sharing the experience. :upset: I must remember:02.47-tranquillity:
 

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
Glad to hear you guys are enjoying/learning a thing or two from my mistakes :). It makes it worth it!

i used iMovie for the editing because it's the only thing I had on me. The program is supposed to be easy - but if you're comfortable with Final Cut Pro (pre version X) then this program drives you nuts! I began with the best, fun intentions, and then after 5 minutes said "just bounce it, it's too annoying."

any future video will definitely be edited using trusty FCP. Enough of that iMovie nonsense!

The video wasn't bad for using rubber bands to strap it to a piece of cardboard onto a hard surface with no shock mounts. Gives me hope that with a little effort and not much cash, we will be able to capture some super-fun footage!
 

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
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Well, I got home last night and today had a chance to get the quad back together. Seems like no major damage from the crash - or at least the FC, GPS and LED are firing up.

NEXT UP:

I left the props off so that I can balance the motors. I hadn't done that before I got all excited and had to fly the thing. I'll get to that and balancing the new props too.

Building a a testing stand to secure the quad to so I can more extensively test on the ground.

Im going to rig up a "dome" using a CD spindle cover. Should help in the inevitable, eventual crashes...

COUPLE THINGS I'VE LEARNED:

Having a cache of extra hardware is well worth the few bucks. These things are all small, you're bound to lose or break something - and it's better to have it right in the toolbox than have to run to a store, or worse - order it from abroad. Order all different lengths of stand-offs, screws and appropriate nuts.

Take note of the tools you use to build and tweak the quad. There is NO need to bring more than that to the field. It just creates clutter.

If you have multiple flight modes on your Tx, mark the TX with tape until you have the switch functions memorized!

Bring extra props, and balance them before you leave the house. I now think 2 full sets of extras would be appropriate.

I think I would be more comfortable with a tray for my Tx. I have never used one, but I think it will offer easier control over the sticks.

Don't over-think it. Make sure it's safe to fly, and then go for it. It's a hell of a lot of fun!
 
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COMike93yj

Still Building!
Thanks for the tips Scott!!!!

I am still wrapping my head around the "extra parts" needed to keep flying or building. If you have a chance can you elaborate and give us some links on just what you have purchased to keep you up in the air?

Links to HK would be great if you sourced all your stuff from them.

I have been looking at tons of sites and threads but haven't found a decent list.

Things I am looking into are (in no particular order):

Hardware
-- nuts, bolts, spacers
-- wires.....gauges, lengths, types
-- Shrink wrap
-- loctite ( I have auto loctite but not sure if it is the same for the hobby)
-- zip ties (got them from Harbor Freight)
-- connectors
-- SuperGlue (CA sourced from Harbor Freight)

These are things I have been looking for and gathering ..... I'm just trying to get ahead of the curve!

By the way.....GREAT SHOT of "Chopsticks" flying!!!!

Mike :)
 

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
Thanks for the photo compliment - but that's all my step-dad. It helps to have a guy around who is really into photography AND you just got hooked on multirotors by getting him a Blade Nano QX for xmas :)

The type of stuff I'm talking about would be sorta like this:

Stand-Offs: Various sizes make for easy adjustment to your mounting scheme. They come in various lengths. I have changed mine around a few times already.
Nylon NUTS & SCREWS: You may end up using more of the metal versions, but these are nice to have - and seem to work well.
Nylon Spacers: THESE are just like the threaded stand-offs, but with no screw part hanging out. Again, they come in various lengths.
Nylon washers: They don't seem to have these at HK, but I grabbed them from my local hardware store. Also, grab 4 for the props, so that the adaptor clamps to this instead of the prop directly.
WIRE: This is something you should also have a variety of. This can be purchased through Radio Shack or just about anywhere. Grab a couple spools of different colors, and different gauges (12, 18, maybe 20)
Shrink Wrap: You can get some decent stuff from Harbor Freight - but it's pre-cut short. For the longer lengths, you can get it just about anywhere - for a little more $. I think I did the whole quad with only HF stuff.
Loctite: Same as auto. I have been using the blue. The red would probably be too strong for this tiny hardware - and applying heat to the hardware more difficult with touchy motors so close etc..
Zip Ties: Get both really small ones and the larger ones. I used small ones for everything from my choptick mod to securing the thin wires. The larger ones for the ESCs etc.
Connectors: Depends on motors & battery discharge. I'd suggest 3.5mm bullets (ESCs & motors have these preinstalled - need to match on the other end). Maybe some larger ones for hefty connections. Get a few bags each.
CA: I got mine from the local hobby store. I got the type that you spray another liquid on the speed up/harden.
Battery Extension: I got a few from the guy I bought the FC from. Although it's aimed at Multiwii, his accessories are well thought out and there's plenty of them. Check out his whole site - it really offers a ton of what you need. And only $4 shipping from USA!!! This extension allowed me to plug in my battery to the on-board alarm (definitely get one of these!!!!) easier, and extend the balance-plug easier into my charging "bunker."
Hex/Allen Driver: This makes things SOOOO much easier than trying to use the L shaped type. Sears or Harbor Freight will have these.
Helping Hands: Harbor Freight or Radio Shack has these - priceless for soldering.
Old Sponge: For wiping soldering iron on while soldering. Make sure it's damp first! :)
Small Ratchet/Socket: These make tightening the small nuts easier of course. Better than trying to find a tiny crescent wrench :)
Small Organizer: This makes keeping all the tiny nuts, spacers etc easy to find - and less likely to drop them on the floor where you will NEVER find them!

If you look in the "MULTIROTOR ACCESSORY" section of HK, they have a ton of all this stuff, and it cost pennies, especially compared to the local hardware store. They seemed to have everything I needed in the USA warehouse too!

I'll add to the list as I think of things.
 

COMike93yj

Still Building!
Thanks Scott!

Tell your "photographer" he needs to fly the Nano and take some pics for sharing here!

Thanks for the links.....It should help a ton of folks out and myself included!

The HEX driver thing has me intriqued. I have TONS of craftsman tools but the hex driver/allen driver is something I do not have. Looking at some of the heli sites I used to go to to find something that will have ratchet action so that it makes installation/crash repair that much easier!

Helping hands are GREAT! I picked up some at HF for pennies on the dollar on a sale so that is something that can help folks out too!

Weller Solder station came with the sponge but I picked up a brass wire cleaner thingy for 2 bucks that works for cleaning the tips on the soldering iron.

As far as organizers go....I have TONS of empty fishing tackle boxes (same as organizers ) and that is a must for keeping things tidy!

Thanks for posting the listing up of things you obtained! It will help all of us in the hobby and appreciate you taking the time to make this happen!
 

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
The hex driver I have is only the screwdriver type, with interchangeable tips. This hardware is so small you wouldn't need to ratchet much :) The tackle boxes work great - and that's what I used for my field kit - since I wasn't about to spend $100 on a hobby-specific box!!!! This thing worked great once I used engine degreaser on it to remove all the muck it came with from the garage sale I bought it at. And hell, it's got more character anyway!!! I have a few of the Harbor Freight Black/Yellow boxes that work great for the larger stuff (motors, ESCs, PCBs etc). Dirt cheap too. I wish we had HF up here in Vermont.

Can't wait until you guys get all your parts and get these builds going. I'm already dreaming about a home-made H-4 frame that will be more appropriate for FPV/AP...
 

jbrumberg

Member
"brass wire cleaner thingy" and the Weller Solder Station. And the Blue Loctite; the red may not be plastic friendly +1 The only other stuff I could think of - liquid electricians' tape and hemostats. And clear nail polish for prop balancing.
 

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