Hoverfly Something BIG coming soon!

[Earl E Adobtr]

Excited to have a new brushless controller option. I know it will be user friendly which will be great..... But, honestly HF, that was a bit anticlimactic. I sure would like to dust off this GPS. Why not just release all of the info?

That is probably as far as they've gotten. I think we all remember why we got hooked on this company; the promise of user friendly while we were still doing PID loop adjustments. Well guess what, here we are again with the so called "open source" brushless gimbal. If history is any guide that little closed source HF gem will probably make it's appearance in about a year and it will take another year for all of us to debug for them (for free).

 

[workshop]

That is probably as far as they've gotten. I think we all remember why we got hooked on this company; the promise of user friendly while we were still doing PID loop adjustments. Well guess what, here we are again with the so called "open source" brushless gimbal. If history is any guide that little closed source HF gem will probably make it's appearance in about a year and it will take another year for all of us to debug for them (for free).

And, as it turns out, tuning PIDs ain't so hard after all...

Perhaps teaming with a larger company/distributor and their new, larger digs will give the HoverCore team the chance to devote their time to R&D, coding, testing, etc. while the partners handle the sales and customer interface. IMO, they have to start competing with Mission Planner to remain in the game. It looks like PixHawk and HoverFly will hit the market with the "next generation" at the same time.

 

[Stacky]

And, as it turns out, tuning PIDs ain't so hard after all...

Perhaps teaming with a larger company/distributor and their new, larger digs will give the HoverCore team the chance to devote their time to R&D, coding, testing, etc. while the partners handle the sales and customer interface. IMO, they have to start competing with Mission Planner to remain in the game. It looks like PixHawk and HoverFly will hit the market with the "next generation" at the same time.

Well I guess it all depends on just how vital waypoints are to the bigger section of the market as to how vital that is. GPS has become common for many but how many actually use it for commercial work?. The consumer market is probably buying more GPS gear than the commercial filming side of things as hobbyists tend to be gadget freaks.
How many of the guys using their multirotors for aerial video work use GPS when filming?. The HFP after all when first coming on to the market was aimed at people wanting to produce video for commercial purposes.
The key thing it seems to me is that HF get their GPS board up to the level of the DJI gear (without the fly aways) and then have the new products coming work properly from day one. I did a job on the weekend and the need for GPS was not there. I have a series of small jobs over the coming months and not a single one requires GPS or mission planning.

Had more of a think and with hobbyists buying so much gear the waypoint part of the market will probably become an important feature that people want, whether they need them or not.

 

[workshop]

A quality data link and comprehensive control over more than a TX alone can handle is the reason for a software/hardware solution like an Android tablet and Mission Planner.

I don't use Mission Planner for Waypoints although many do because most of my filming requirements are like yours; video on the go. I use it to provide a comprehensive display for my spotter/crew while I fly FPV; basically just scratching the surface of what the program can do.

Ground Station software with data and video logging is much more useful than I realized on first glance too.

 

[Stacky]

A quality data link and comprehensive control over more than a TX alone can handle is the reason for a software/hardware solution like an Android tablet and Mission Planner.

I don't use Mission Planner for Waypoints although many do because most of my filming requirements are like yours; video on the go. I use it to provide a comprehensive display for my spotter/crew while I fly FPV; basically just scratching the surface of what the program can do.

Ground Station software with data and video logging is much more useful than I realized on first glance too.

very true, hadnt thought of that. Its only a small thing but the HFP OSD has become something I dont like flying without and all Im using that for is battery and Altitude. All the other bits of info would be really helpful and to be able to deal with it via a computer or tablet would be useful.

 

[Krzysiek]

GPS feature is very important, I would like to use as you can see below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5XklSuYa0s

 

[RC Flying]

It is exciting, but I must admit I hate all this teaser/coming soon/backorder culture we have these days. I wish companies would just surprise us with something fully working and available for sale when it's ready.

 

[ovdt]

It is exciting, but I must admit I hate all this teaser/coming soon/backorder culture we have these days. I wish companies would just surprise us with something fully working and available for sale when it's ready.

Very well said.

 

[Matt Sharp]

It is exciting, but I must admit I hate all this teaser/coming soon/backorder culture we have these days. I wish companies would just surprise us with something fully working and available for sale when it's ready.

I agree mostly. Its nice to know what is being developed, but with clear projections that are met. It can prevent buying current tech that is going to be obsolete in the near future.

I was excited about the new GPS features that were due to be released months ago, but the silence wasn't broken with the new firmware for existing products. The announcement of new products without the support for current isn't confidence inspiring.

 

[workshop]

It can prevent buying current tech that is going to be obsolete in the near future.

Osborne Effect: This is taught in Business 101. It refers to pre-announcing product and the effect on sales of existing products. There are many examples of firms going bankrupt by committing this error. It is truly a classic.

I am not saying that HoverFly is committing this error or that I have any dire projections for them; but it does seem odd and shortsighted given what we know about Osborne.

P.s. the week is over... Any news on FaceBook?

 

[Stacky]

It can prevent buying current tech that is going to be obsolete in the near future.

Its a funny thing but nearly 3 years ago when I first started trying to work this multirotor stuff out I did tons of research on FC's and nearly went towards MK but was put off by what I perceived at the time as a complex and involved building and tuning process. I chose HFP because when I researched the hardware I found they were using memory and processors etc which would be usable for a decent length of time without becoming obsolete. I dont think the hardware is going to become obsolete anytime soon on the HFP and if they keep developing the firmware it could be a 5 year life cycle for the current electronics or even longer which would be a fairly substantial achievement.
I havent bought a GPS board but it seems that they still have some way to go on that firmware, although GPS seems to me to cause an awful lot of problems for all FC's and users.

 

[Earl E Adobtr]

Totally agree with the HFP hardware assessment, Stacky. I look at GPS like cruise control on a car. Good for certain situations and certain users. I watched a guy yesterday at the field with brand new shiny NAZA hoisting it into the air and flying GPS mode without ever having calibrated. Luckily he crashed in an open area away from people. He admitted that he didn't know how to calibrate but didn't think it would be a problem, having skipped over that part in the manual. I use NAZA M and find it works all the time as long as every precaution is taken seriously. Even with all the negative press on the HF GPS I just bought one. Having flown both, the HFP combo would totally eat NAZA for lunch with the right algorithm. It would be similar to the difference between a servo gimbal and brushless gimbal - a game changer. Just don't understand why HF stalled.

 

[Stacky]

There is a guy who literally lives across the park from me who is more interested in designing frames than actually flying. He has a HF GPS board he is keen for me to try out. I have resisted so far but I suspect sometime before xmas I will give it a go. My big fear is something going wrong as i have 2 HFP boards in 2 medium/big multis, one a Hexa and the other a X8. Both are about 750mm in size and have AUW of about 3.5kg-4kg. The Hexa has now been in operation for 18 months and I use it for stills work and it has never skipped a beat. Im loathe to bend it because of adding hardware that may or may not cause a crash. I am constantly checking out all the GPS threads of other FC manufacturers and it really does seem a common theme however I do wonder if the majority of GPS related crashes etc are because people arent putting in the time needed to set them up.

 

[Matt Sharp]

There is a guy who literally lives across the park from me who is more interested in designing frames than actually flying. He has a HF GPS board he is keen for me to try out. I have resisted so far but I suspect sometime before xmas I will give it a go. My big fear is something going wrong as i have 2 HFP boards in 2 medium/big multis, one a Hexa and the other a X8. Both are about 750mm in size and have AUW of about 3.5kg-4kg. The Hexa has now been in operation for 18 months and I use it for stills work and it has never skipped a beat. Im loathe to bend it because of adding hardware that may or may not cause a crash. I am constantly checking out all the GPS threads of other FC manufacturers and it really does seem a common theme however I do wonder if the majority of GPS related crashes etc are because people arent putting in the time needed to set them up.

I haven't had any undesired effects with the Hoverfly GPS. The position hold on mine keeps it inside of about a 6 foot (2m) circle, rth has worked as advertised during testing, and it flies the same in manual as it did before. If hoverfly can tighten up the position hold, and altitude hold it would be a perfect combo. I rarely use GPS functionality, I prefer manual mode so I know exactly what is going on with the multi. It takes a lot of faith to let a 9kg+ multi fly itself.

 

[Bartman]

Its a funny thing but nearly 3 years ago when I first started trying to work this multirotor stuff out I did tons of research on FC's and nearly went towards MK but was put off by what I perceived at the time as a complex and involved building and tuning process. I chose HFP because when I researched the hardware I found they were using memory and processors etc which would be usable for a decent length of time without becoming obsolete. I dont think the hardware is going to become obsolete anytime soon on the HFP and if they keep developing the firmware it could be a 5 year life cycle for the current electronics or even longer which would be a fairly substantial achievement.
I havent bought a GPS board but it seems that they still have some way to go on that firmware, although GPS seems to me to cause an awful lot of problems for all FC's and users.

fwiw, i mount the Hoverfly GPS board using my mounting kit so that the GPS board is about 2" above the PRO and it's associated wiring. I have very steady heading performance and improved GPS performance. The GPS depends on the PRO's gains being set appropriately and the magnetometer needs to be free from mag interference. It's not like a NAZA's GPS but it ain't that bad either.

 

[DucktileMedia]

Not having a programming degree and just thinking out loud.... Logically, if a parameter that tells the FC to respond to input positions acquired by the gps, why would there not also be a parameter that tells the FC to ignore any input from the gps if the movement goes over a certain value within a specified amount of time? In other words, if our FC's fly fine when NOT in GPS mode, then start acting unpredictable in gps, why is there not a fail safe programmed in that shuts the port off from the gps and just goes back into it's last mode? Let's say you are in atti flying around and you decide you want to do a 360 pan. So you take it where you want and flip it into gps mode. The heli is sitting there fine but out of no where half way in the rotation the thing jerks over to the side and starts flying off into oblivion. It shouldnt be that hard to tell the FC that the unit is receiving above normal positional data and to ignore all gps input and resort to atti. In this event the pilot would see the heli drift slowly off and would have to regain manual control. but this is FAR better than having any instantaneous un-commanded movements. Perhaps this is harder than it sounds. but there are too many crashes that have derived specifically from gps failure or interference. I wrote a small macro for my CNC router with the manufacturer that kinda does this same thing, it was very easy. It is essentially the same thing that the alt hold does. It basically says, try to maintain a current value but based on the rate of change react accordingly.

Now DJI supposedly has 300 engineers working in their facility. You're gonna tell me they cant add some sort of fail-safe that is GPS specific so this crap doesn't keep happening?

 

[Bartman]

just thinking out loud, what it you put a PRO on the bottom of your heli to control your lower 4 motors and a PRO on top of the frame stack with GPS to control the upper four motors. Would they fight with each other or would you have a sick, super stable heli that locks into attitudes?

anyone have an extra PRO? I'll try a dual PRO coaxial quad for the hell of it to see what it does. i've got one I can commit to it.

 

[tombrown1]

Not having a programming degree and just thinking out loud.... Logically, if a parameter that tells the FC to respond to input positions acquired by the gps, why would there not also be a parameter that tells the FC to ignore any input from the gps if the movement goes over a certain value within a specified amount of time? In other words, if our FC's fly fine when NOT in GPS mode, then start acting unpredictable in gps, why is there not a fail safe programmed in that shuts the port off from the gps and just goes back into it's last mode? Let's say you are in atti flying around and you decide you want to do a 360 pan. So you take it where you want and flip it into gps mode. The heli is sitting there fine but out of no where half way in the rotation the thing jerks over to the side and starts flying off into oblivion. It shouldnt be that hard to tell the FC that the unit is receiving above normal positional data and to ignore all gps input and resort to atti. In this event the pilot would see the heli drift slowly off and would have to regain manual control. but this is FAR better than having any instantaneous un-commanded movements. Perhaps this is harder than it sounds. but there are too many crashes that have derived specifically from gps failure or interference. I wrote a small macro for my CNC router with the manufacturer that kinda does this same thing, it was very easy. It is essentially the same thing that the alt hold does. It basically says, try to maintain a current value but based on the rate of change react accordingly.

Now DJI supposedly has 300 engineers working in their facility. You're gonna tell me they cant add some sort of fail-safe that is GPS specific so this crap doesn't keep happening?

I thought DJI had tried to do that in one of their later firmwares - I think it's supposed to switch to atti automatically if something seems fishy in gps. I also think there were many reported crashes that seemed to revolve around this feature. 5.16 for me and quite possibly a HFP in the near future.

 

[JZSlenker]

The few times I've tested the HF GPS, it works perfectly. I never use it for actual shooting (nor AH, or AL). None of those bells and whistles are needed. We only have GPS for failsafe type scenarios. But it certainly works on our X-8s. We don't even use the external mags. It's all about the mag. Get rid of ferrous material and move your wiring to get rid if EMI and it works fine.

 

[workshop]

Shameless plug:

Aerdro.com makes a nice kit to elevate the GPS board above the HFP board to get the magnetometer out of electrical fields. It made a big difference on one of my Y6 copters. Check out the 'miscellaneous' section of their website.

jeffparisse

P.s. Oops... I see Bart already mentioned it in Post #35.