Am i being over cautious here?

Cheshirecat

Member
I have been flying my SJX4 with 2 X 8300 mAh 6S and have decided my Bingo voltage is 22.4 Volts, So when i see this on the down link i bring her in and land.
This is after around 8-9 Mins with the all up weight (Z15 and NEX7 Onboard) a mix of hovering, non aggressive maneuvering and climbs to around 85 Meters.

When i put the LiPos on Charge my Graupner chargers is putting back at most 4500 mAh, more often 3500-4000. So i am clearly not making the most of the batteries.
But after a lot of initial research on LiPo cells i learned that they are 80% Discharged at 3.72 - 3.74 Volts and i went safe at 3.74 per cell hence 22.4 Volts for the 6S Pack but after several flights have never put back more than 4500mAh in each pack so not even getting to 60% capacity.
I figured the only scientific way of really knowing where the LiPos are at in flight is to measure the current drawn in real time and i have purchased the telemetry upgrade from Andrea Baier for the Herkules. I use Futaba radios and have not fitted this yet and will not until i re wire my Zenmuse connections for easier mounting and connection in the field, Also i am not 100% sure i can expect the telemetry to send the readings to the Futaba TX display in real time or it just records this to the on board SD card.

In the meantime i want to keep flying and practicing so trying to work out what i should consider my Bingo voltage on the packs in flight.
What do 6S flyers consider the 80% Voltage to be under load? what have you got set in your WKM assistant as the trigger values and at what voltage do you say that's it i'm coming in? i am reluctant to base it purely gradually extending the flights and monitoring the charge put back as it does not take into account varying flight conditions and how hard the rig is working at the time.
 


Cheshirecat

Member
LOL well i guess nobody could accuse you of not giving a straight answer to the question, albeit a little too straight.
 



Benjamin Kenobi

Easy? You call that easy?
I have my voltage protection set really low (21 and 20). It's just for emergencies. I use a current sensor to tell me in flight how much I've used. And a timer. Of course as your lipos get older they'll lose a little capacity so take that into account. Measuring internal resistance with your charger is one if the best ways to test your lipos health. I use GensAce lipos which have an IR of 2 milliohms, which is very good.

Anyway, off topic as usual. An hour after flying you'll notice the voltage increases a fraction when they've cooled off. Now I'm waffling.

With new lipos/setup just fly for half the expected time and see how much you put back in. Slowly increase till your using almost 80%. Cycle new lipos around ten times to break them in, same way you do with a new mobile phone.

Shut up Ben! Alright, I will.
 

SMP

Member
Actually Ben, this is a good wander, Speaking of aging packs... Thankfully (with the addition of the DJIosd) I was able to see a significant amount of voltage sag and have a heads up that something was terribly amiss. Had I just been using the timer method I would have buried a fairly expensive rig. In this particular case, we pulled the gimbal strapped on 2 liter water bottle and hovered at 3 feet. Both batts in parallel were older and both were giving up voltage numbers that would have flight times half of what they were previously (using the timer method only). We typically fly between 65-75% of our batts capacity so in this case, that would have been 25% in the ground... Pulling the data logger also showed over 2 volts sag at startup, a fairly linear slowly decreasing curve and then a near immediate dropoff from flying to falling. We don't use the voltage protections but the time between flashing LEDS and falling is much much shorter than you think. The moral is, telemetry is good. The instruments are right, no matter how many times you tap the gauge and older packs are a lot older than we think. What are good IR #s?? More importantly what are BAD IR#s???
 
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Cheshirecat

Member
Thanks Ben and SMP.

I agree telemetry is the way to go, already have the hardware but Andraes Baier is still working on the protocols for Futaba, hopefully it won't be long.
In the meantime as my LiPos are very new i will continue to be gentle with them and gradually increase the flying times watching what i put back on each recharge, i hear what you are saying about the voltage curves as the Lipos get old and will bear that in mind.
Fortunately my Graupner charger gives a shed load of information and graphs about the battery it is charging and i already keep a close eye on IR and cell balance.

So i will loosen my caution, but not too much.
 

I blew big wedge on a Maxamps 10900 6S, and I thought I was being a baby - I land at 3.5V (3.65V idle), and so far, the pack is doing ok, with maybe only the tiniest bit of puffing. I always balance charge at 1C. I typically put in around 9000 or so. Hopefully this is cautious enough.
 

MombasaFlash

Heli's & Tele's bloke
1C? Wow! You must be patient. I have the alarms set for 3.6v under load and then 'go easy' on my 6S/10,000 gens ace packs by only charging at 4C instead of 5C and they take five or six hours to charge.
 

6 hrs at 4C? Gotta be something amiss there..

I run my max amps 10900's till I see 21.9 on the osd then land. Charging at 4C takes about 15min putting back 8000~ @ 5C they take about 13 min for the same. I do not balance charge when making continuous hops but I do balance the first and last charge/storage of the day. Using icharger 4010duo.
 

MombasaFlash

Heli's & Tele's bloke
Maybe it is the balancing that slows it all down. Dunno. Never thought of not connecting the balance cables.

Mind you, although the charger channel is set to 4C I doubt that it is actually pumping that through. I am using the Robbe QuadPeak four channel charger to save on general hardware mess and I don't think it is particularly powerful because if you stick on a big 10,000 the charge rate barely exceeds 2.2A.

They are generally pretty warm after a flight so I let them cool before charging, which usually means not until I am back home. It doesn't really bother me too much most of the time but it certainly is a pretty long charge cycle.
 

1C? Wow! You must be patient. I have the alarms set for 3.6v under load and then 'go easy' on my 6S/10,000 gens ace packs by only charging at 4C instead of 5C and they take five or six hours to charge.

Errr....you got that right? 1C on a 10.9A is....10.9A. It takes 90 minutes...? If you're charging a 10Ah at 4C it should take 20 minutes...not 6 hours...:frog:
 

MombasaFlash

Heli's & Tele's bloke
They must just be crappy chargers then. Connecting up charge leads and setting the battery type/charge rate etc. is all one can do. After that it is up to the charger and yup, it takes that long!

Hey! Anyone out there want to buy three Robbe PowerPeak multi-chargers with Graupner 120/240/12v Power Supplies?
 

Kolb

Member
MombasaFlash, get yourself a server psu from eBay (search for DPS-600pb) and an iCharger 306. It is higher wattage and amperage your after! Your packs will be ready in minutes!
 

R6Media

Member
I've been flying my batteries down to 20.4 under load. the math is good (3.4v). Resting voltage after landing between 3.6-3.7. Charger consistently tells me I've got 25-30% left.
Am I asking for trouble? It doesn't seem like it. But man, that's only 10:30 of flight time for me (Dual pack 5800mAh)
 

deluge2

Member
iCharger 4010 duo can charge at up to 1500 watts, with upto 48v input. MF, you've been charging at 0.22 C if you're putting 2.2 A into 10,000 mAh batteries. With an appropriately powered charger you'll be delivering 40-50 A during the constant current phase of charging at 4-5 C charge rate. And that's with full cell balancing. With sufficiently powerful power supply you can charge 2 batteries simultaneously at this rate. Plus you'll have accurate internal resistance readings so you can monitor battery/cell health over time. You can also charge 4 at once with two channels parallel charging 2 batteries each.

Steve

MombasaFlash, get yourself a server psu from eBay (search for DPS-600pb) and an iCharger 306. It is higher wattage and amperage your after! Your packs will be ready in minutes!
 

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