single rotor fpv

kloner

Aerial DP
Have any of you guys ever done any single rotor fpv? Anybody use ace1 from dji? I'm curious how hard ace1 is to setup and make work as well as a naza or the like and what all it doesn't like as in if theres any servos it won't do or types of helis it doesn't work so well with.

looking at an electric 700
 

Bowley

Member
Ace 1 is very pricey, have you considered WK H or WK H Lite? It has had the height limit removed. I am still watching for this promised GPS for Skookum 720.
Align have a nice system also now...APS for use with their 3GX FBL.
 

kloner

Aerial DP
didn't know anything about any of this stuff. man, take your head out of the single rotors for a year and it's got all kinds of surprises.

Whats the difference between wookong h and wookong h lite? there new site sucks, i can't understand anything i'm looking at
 

Bowley

Member
Wookong H Lite is basically like a Naza for SR's, just has Baro Alt hold, although not sure if the Naza GPS can be added.
 

kloner

Aerial DP
i need the wookong h............. doesn't have a return to home though. Do you know if it takes the aceone to get that part? i see it is in aceone and not in wookong h, nothing is in between right?
 


kloner

Aerial DP
that align controller is exactly what i need, but i'm doing this thing for a manufacturer that directly competes with align. he hates em........ Thanks for the insight and direction. This should be interesting
 

R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
Don't forget Arducopter, it flies SRH's too. Full autonomy, RTH, Position Hold, Mission Scripting, etc...

Disregard the crash at the end. Programmer/Pilot error. I'm working on handing control of the ESC over to the autopilot, and I accidentally shut the motor off in flight and couldn't restart it fast enough. I have since added warm-restart which prevents this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDi4xAOQN0M&feature=plcp

 


R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
that aint bad at all, does it self level like an atti mode?

Yes, absolutely. I only fly in "Stabilization" mode. In fact Rate or "Acro" doesn't really even work that well. In Stab mode, full roll stick gives you 45° of roll. Full up pitch is 45° of pitch. Center stick is a hover, etc. The 600 flies like a big Blade CX... only, it's a Coax that can handle a bit of wind. ;) It's all still a bit of a work in progress though, the biggest problem we have is with vibrations. It seems very sensitive, moreso than other controllers, and we have to figure out why.

Here's some more "hands off" hovering attempts. It's not perfect, but I'm not sure it ever could be. It's pretty close to perfect and just drifts a little bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jBVJY6Kf2w&feature=plcp


Right now I'm creating a pure control pass-through mode for Flybarred helis, all the APM does is the CCPM mixing, then direct to servos. I need a "bailout" function for when the stabilization misbehaves. I'm also working on a "virtual flybar" mode based on PhuBar for flybarless helis. And lastly I'm working on a stand-alone governor. It will be arduino based, and will sit between the APM and the ESC. It will measure rotor speed directly, and then control the ESC in simple throttle mode. The reason is, some ESC's Governor modes are too aggressive, they pulse the throttle on and off, causing a slight waggle. It's imperceptible if you're sport flying, but if you have a camera on, it's bad. So I want a softer governor PID. But the governor will have two-way communication with the APM. The APM will send it target rotor-speed, and load (collective pitch) to help with the rotor speed control PID as a feed-forward. Finally, I'll have speed feedback to the APM, such that the APM can be aware of motor failure, and eventually might be able to do an auto-auto-rotation. Or at least soften the impact! This is mostly for autonomous uses. Eventually it could be built into the APM, but I'm not sure the little Atmega can handle any more jobs. Maybe when we go to ARM it will be possible.
 

DucktileMedia

Drone Enthusiast
on the subject of SRH's, has anyone seen the gaui x7 making an appearance in the AP world? It seems Photoshipone is the only one promoting this. Maybe no one wants to take a risk with something new. But it has been out for long enough now that videos should appear and they havent.
 

kloner

Aerial DP
when i hear that thing run it has that gear to gear sound. from what little i've messed with helis on carrying a camera, you don't want that, you want belts. When i think of a heli carrying a camera, i just can't immagine an electric being as graceful or as succesful as a turbine. The only camera ship i've seen in action is the vario XLC. it's about the size of the rmax but readily available and extremely succesful carrying real cameras

this exact one actually

not too long ago one of you ap guys posted a video of some cat up in alaska filming trains and other cool stuff on a red epic, it was on a xlc. it's like 8' long, 3-4' high. when people call a heli by it's blade size, it's a 1200mm 3 blade, 2500mm diameter
 
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DucktileMedia

Drone Enthusiast
so you have seen the gaui x7 fly in person? I wonder why PS1 is pimping them so hard if they have issues. I googled that heli Denny was talking about the ThreeDee rigid I think and that gear train looks unbreakable!
 

kloner

Aerial DP
no just watched a few on youtube when you mentioned it

the goblin by sab is a 10kw geartrain all belt driven like logo, vario, etc. Ever watched a logo go

all you hear is motor and blades

hear how even the auto at :20 you can hear the gears

them gears are all the vibrations if there are any

this one is bet between motor and pinion if you will

this thing is super minimal isn't it, pretty cool looking modified x7
img_9172.jpg

is the THE gimbal to have?
 
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DucktileMedia

Drone Enthusiast
I wouldn't think gears are where are where all the vibes comes from at all. Blade balancing is #1. But all this stuff does accumulate. I just wrote PS1 asking why, if it is such a great AP platform, there are no videos.
 

kloner

Aerial DP
I just went trhough r&d with audacity model over the last 2 years developing gasser and electric and 700 conversions. when you have all the blades balanced (easier than weighing out a dime bag cause your just using a scale t match weight and a dowel to match cg, the vibes all come from the gears. I've got hours and hours of logs of it. Up until now or possibly even still, the v-bar wasn't recomended or supported on any other airframe than a logo, know why? The belt drives have zero vibes. you put vbar on an align 600 and it'll give you vibrations in the 200-300 range all at the harmonics of tail drives (primarily torque tube) then put the same vbar on a logo and it'll measure 20-30. The difference is night and day. All the products like mikado, vario, 3d rigid are german...... gaui is chineese
 
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kloner

Aerial DP
this is alot of the film from the guy i mentioned earlier with the vario xlc turbine


me and helicommand don't get along. They screwed me on the cheapest thing they make, think my emails go in the spam folder now. That's the worst company i dealt with till dragonlink came into my life

Good finds, wish i could use the aps but he aint gonna buy it
 
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DennyR

Active Member
Tabb has about ten state of the art helis but prefers his own MR's. I currently have one very special heli and it is going to be the first of many more. Including one that floats. As I proved with the F1 MR's, if the model is really steady you can get away with no camera mount at all. Nothing I have seen compares with a TDR on asymmetric blades. What could possibly be better - A TDR with a three rotor head.....

With full size heli's the more rotors, the less vibration it has. Hughes 500 is good, AS350 is probably the best. Jet ranger and R22 at the bottom of the list.

That Goblin is another one that is well worth trying...
 
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R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
I just went trhough r&d with audacity model over the last 2 years developing gasser and electric and 700 conversions. when you have all the blades balanced (easier than weighing out a dime bag cause your just using a scale t match weight and a dowel to match cg, the vibes all come from the gears. I've got hours and hours of logs of it. Up until now or possibly even still, the v-bar wasn't recomended or supported on any other airframe than a logo, know why? The belt drives have zero vibes. you put vbar on an align 600 and it'll give you vibrations in the 200-300 range all at the harmonics of tail drives (primarily torque tube) then put the same vbar on a logo and it'll measure 20-30. The difference is night and day. All the products like mikado, vario, 3d rigid are german...... gaui is chineese

Interesting comments. As I say, I've been fighting vibration problems with the Arducopter system, that's the biggest issue at the moment. I don't really understand it because my quad vibrates a lot, I didn't even balance the blades, and it uses flimsy collett prop adaptors, the props aren't even mounted true as the holes are bigger than the shaft. Sort of a worst case scenario. The APM has no problem with that at all.

But the heli is no end of trouble. I've tried a 450, and have a terrible time getting it to work. The 600 is much easier. But still sometimes a problem crops up. It seems to me that it has more problems with the high frequency vibes. Not the main rotors, but anything in the tail drive. Or if a bearing is going out. A lot of post-mortems turn up a notchy bearing.

I think part of the difference is also because vibrations in MR's tend to be accelerations in the X-Y plane. From the prop imbalances, and the props are relatively inline with the CG. On a heli, you get all kinds of vibrations in all directions. And lots of rotational vibrations. With the main rotor above the CG, blade imbalance gives you a rotational vibration about X and Y. Also, the blade forces do the same, such as from tracking errors.


Tabb has about ten state of the art helis but prefers his own MR's. I currently have one very special heli and it is going to be the first of many more. Including one that floats. As I proved with the F1 MR's, if the model is really steady you can get away with no camera mount at all. Nothing I have seen compares with a TDR on asymmetric blades. What could possibly be better - A TDR with a three rotor head.....

With full size heli's the more rotors, the less vibration it has. Hughes 500 is good, AS350 is probably the best. Jet ranger and R22 at the bottom of the list.

Tandem Dual Rotor? Have you seen any hardware for sale? I've been wanting to do this, I know I can reprogram Arducopter to do it. It's just been slow because of the totally custom hardware.

No camera mount? As in, no servos, or just no elaborate vibration damping, etc? You have to be able to tilt it at least? Nice thing with tandem is no more right skid low.
 

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