S800 alternative props

[APVXtreme]

Now that's an improvement and then some, I'm very leary of flying new props until I'm confident my bird won't fly away or FOD. Just waiting for my compass to get back so I can put her through her paces. Caught a post in another forum the other day where dude was running props as mods, bird didn't FOD but ended up pretty busted up and because it was mod'd and DJI denied his attempt to exchange the bird. That being said, I've been in and out of A LOT of different forums, I've seen you in quite a few DennyR and I'm right up there with you in wanting improve this bird. Now, on that note this is the ONLY post I've seen that can attest to that much airtime. Denny you're onto something everybody is looking for, I've got the 50wp WKM but what good is it if I can only fly 15min?

I'm getting a set of these next week: http://www.cnchelicopter.com/servlet/the-2351/xmhobbies-Carbon-Fiber-Propeller/Detail (please open in new tab)

I wonder how the APC's will run under load (Z15/FPV) It seems the bird doesn't like the 14-15 x 7.xx but is comfortable in the 14-15 x 4.xx range.

I still want to put another 50hrs in to make sure WKM is solid before I even try them though... (sigh). I do have faith, two quotes out of DJI's recall still make me believe:

"DJI confirmed both the fault and the bug fix by flying four S800s under heavy burden on electric tether for more than 72 hours without failure."
and
"In turn, DJI is also developing a new firmware upgrade for the WooKong-M IMU based on the innovations developed for the compass bug fix."

Sorry for the rant! Love your posts Denny, keep 'em comin!

J

A few weeks ago I made ten sets of conversion adapters to fit non dedicated props to the S800. Mainly because spares were like gold dust. As the wind was really ripping today I thought lets try em. when I got to the beach I thought no way. The model was swaying about on the ground and the motors were not even running.

I used 14x4.7 APC's and the results were extremely good. It flew for 27 mins on a 11 amp maxamps and the most noticeable thing was that awful ringing noise from the carbon props was gone. A massive saving over the standard carbon props and I think they may even be more efficient. Todays test were without doubt the most extreme conditions that I have ever flown a MR in. I doubt that I will ever use the standard props. again. Its no secret that I am testing the **** out of the S800 to try and find if a fault is still lurking somewhere. So far so good.

 

[jffry7]

I am the guy you are referring to from the other forum. Denny's adapter is not to be blamed.they are great quality and so are the graupner. however DJI have different response when mods are added to s800. If you have weigh the improvements out way the risk then its ok but be prepared.

In my case I still think its not the adapter/prop but something was wrong between my esc and wkm. Which is why I am not confident to put it to another frame. To bad all 4 of my 6S was damage. I can't recreate it or reproduce the esc going out of phase.


On a Side note there are still some guys flying with Graupner, I just saw a vid he posted about the model but having some trouble with his zenmuse.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

 

[DennyR]

It has to be said that DJI are the minority in entertaining any form of warranty. I do think however that we are pushing our luck to modify any part of the model (Not just the Props) and expect any form of replacement parts etc. Modelers being modelers will always try to improve and change what they have, even when there is nothing wrong with it. If we see an electrical fault with DJI we cannot access the code so we are in their hands. Mechanical and aerodynamic problems we can deal with.

With the S800 I am confident that the arms are far to weak and my own model has very extensively modified arms plus the APC. props. (that I have found to be the best.). I get perfect vibration free footage and have had no failures in more than 100 flights in the current config. The installation of the replacement ESC's was done by DJI and I inspected their work and found it to be first class. Based on that info I set about making it better. IMHO the arms need a total redesign. Reduce the dihedral by half, It causes cross axis errors. Make the yaw angles adjustable. Then mount the motors upside down to improve efficiency.

Four months ago I did have a problem that DJI helped me with. It was undoubtably the result of the untested release of 5.12 and the Assistant which crash many PC's during uploading code. I also lost one of my own F1 models due to that.

In an effort to prove that I now have total confidence in MY model and not the S800 in general I used it to shoot a pop video sponsored by Shark. I could have used a SR TDR which I know will always be 100% reliable but considering the probabilities and the possibilities I used the S800 and it did the job without any problems. The testing that went before that was intensive to say the least. What ever system you may buy the responsibility to handle risk management lies with the operator alone. Your ability and the testing of your equipment is what will make your operation a success or failure. I do not believe that an off the shelf MR has yet been built that is 100% reliable.

When some delusional wannabe starts to be critical of ones actions (On another forum) and makes sweeping statements based on no evidence at all, people start to get the wrong idea and go off on the wrong tack, with wrong assumptions.

Over the last 40 years that I have been a pro. shooter and pilot in the aerial industry I have known of around 20 people who have killed themselves and others trying to perform low level aerial filming. So this business is, and will never be without some form of risk.

 

[HEX junky]

Hi DennyR

This is not a loaded question, I would just like to know, what makes this 100% reliable?

quote "I could have used a SR TDR which I know will always be 100% reliable"

Does it have triple redundency or something?

 

[jffry7]

I agree with Denny, which I hope he dont direct the wannabe delusional to me. I am wannabe but not delusional and I still trust my DJI. The problem in the other forums is that one failure they turn it into chaos and start reviving their one instance problem that they weren't able to resolve and link it to that crash. I still think my crash was an isolated incident its not a valid FOD like others which is why its not being address much. Something did happen but it could be just some faulty parts. But my post was misinterpreted by both side which is why I stop responding about my crash.

For clear perception that crash was during my normal stress test during initial flights before I even strap an expensive equipment. All my 3 other frames with WKM gone thru the same phase. That S800 crash was my first ever crash in WKM since last year. I have stayed mostly on 4.0 as I find it good on my other frames and I think 5.14 is a good replacement. I still believe in their product. And for their support they are willing to check the equipment for me, that's how good their support are. I hope in this forum we dont draw too much attention and call me a DJI dog again like one guy did on that forum.

I am no pro so I cannot be backed by years of service but I have tried a lot of FC and they all have flaws, its up to the modeller to adapt to them. Even Camera/videocam have limitation its up to you to use other things to assist the cam to make it near perfect. For support, DJI has the only one that have a real support my S800 might not be replace but I think the replacement will still be WKM FC be it S800 or other frame.

 

[redridinghood]

Does it have triple redundency or something?

For every one SR TDR that fails due to mechanical reasons there are 100 DJI products failing due to "uknown" reasons.

Will that but it in perspective for you?

 

[HEX junky]

Thank you, so not 100% reliable.

And also for every 1 SR TDR sold, maybe 100 S800 sold :tennis:

 

[redridinghood]

Thank you, so not 100% reliable.

And also for every 1 SR TDR sold, maybe 100 S800 sold :tennis:

Yes, one unhappy SR customer = 100 unhappy DJI customers.

I see you are from West Bloomfield, Michigan. If you run into Sydney say hello from me.

 

[HEX junky]

How the hell do you come to this conclusion?

""I see you are from West Bloomfield, Michigan""

I live in Germany, north Bayern. but upto two years ago was in Oxford. I am British for your information.

I just hate it when people say 100% reliable...my wife says this, but I know she isn't :tennis:

 

[DennyR]

I agree with Denny, which I hope he dont direct the wannabe delusional to me. I am wannabe but not delusional and I still trust my DJI. The problem in the other forums is that one failure they turn it into chaos and start reviving their one instance problem that they weren't able to resolve and link it to that crash. I still think my crash was an isolated incident its not a valid FOD like others which is why its not being address much. Something did happen but it could be just some faulty parts. But my post was misinterpreted by both side which is why I stop responding about my crash.

For clear perception that crash was during my normal stress test during initial flights before I even strap an expensive equipment. All my 3 other frames with WKM gone thru the same phase. That S800 crash was my first ever crash in WKM since last year. I have stayed mostly on 4.0 as I find it good on my other frames and I think 5.14 is a good replacement. I still believe in their product. And for their support they are willing to check the equipment for me, that's how good their support are. I hope in this forum we dont draw too much attention and call me a DJI dog again like one guy did on that forum.

I am no pro so I cannot be backed by years of service but I have tried a lot of FC and they all have flaws, its up to the modeller to adapt to them. Even Camera/videocam have limitation its up to you to use other things to assist the cam to make it near perfect. For support, DJI has the only one that have a real support my S800 might not be replace but I think the replacement will still be WKM FC be it S800 or other frame.

Of course it's not you jeff. I refer to someone who wants to play god over at RCG..

 

[DennyR]

The reason that I developed a SR for most of my commercial work is due to the following reasons :

The drive train is bullet proof, Tested thousands of times to a far greater level of stress than I will ever use.

If it did fail, I have auto rotation which I practiced a lot.

I have no need for any autonomous movements, I have much better orientation at a far out distance.

The Zen fits nicely and I will soon produce the conversion kit that introduces some cool anti vibration technique.

It needs only a VBar stabiliser. There are several HV servos that are also just about bullet proof.

It can fly in winds that No MR would survive. The whole device is much simpler and places small demands on the electrical system. It just needs regular mechanical inspections. It packs away nicely to allow for travel.

If you want to track a fast moving target, No MR can get anywhere near to 200 kph.

It forms a reliable solution that can be used to earn money effectively.

If I am flying an S800 on an assignment. Would I risk switching to any other mode than what I took off with. i.e. atti. mode? not ever!!!!

FWIW

 

[HEX junky]

Denny

I totally agree. I have been flying helis for over 30 years, including 1/4 scale turbines. I also use a custom Gas heli for AP (over 1 hour flight time), and have supplied large turbines for other applications. The Autorotation ability is advantagous as long as it's not a unflyable failure. But I still believe MR is still a lot safer in a lot of areas, and future MRs will make this even more so.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Ok gotta ask, what's a SR TDR? Single Rotor... Turbine Driven Rotor?

 

[jffry7]

Of course it's not you jeff. I refer to someone who wants to play god over at RCG..

Haha sound very familiar

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

 

[DennyR]

Hi DennyR

This is not a loaded question, I would just like to know, what makes this 100% reliable?

quote "I could have used a SR TDR which I know will always be 100% reliable"

Does it have triple redundency or something?

A few years back when MK boards had gyro failures every few mins. We developed a triple gyro redundancy board using the brain IMU from a Segway. Not needed these days.

I suppose what I mean by 100% reliable is 100 x more reliable than any MR.
Gravity is reliable stuff, it is what powers autorotation.....

 

[DennyR]

Ok gotta ask, what's a SR TDR? Single Rotor... Turbine Driven Rotor?

Rob
It's a Henseleit 3DRigid hot rod for mad 3D guys to smash up doing crazy stuff or go for speed records in excess of 260 kph. However it has a really nice rotor head and Drive system. I throw most of the rest away to get the parts that I want. I am not ready to release the design yet but It is a step up from the Trekker etc. Uses a Zen that floats on a magnetic field. And has a retract system to give a very wide uninterrupted view. Wide assymetric heavy blades running at 900 rpm etc. I would describe it's flight characteristics as ultra precision. But not for a novice pilot and certainly not hands off. If the new Skookum does what they say it will then I guess it will be as easy as a S800 to fly.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I was mostly wondering what the "TDR" acronym was.

But since you went into detail, interesting stuff. 260 is very, very high. I didn't even know that was possible? I've got my 600 up to 110, but that's all she'll do with only 8° of pitch and 1700 rpm head speed. More than enough for me in any case.

Now I understand why you can say that the drivetrain is more reliable than a MR. That's a nice machine. I don't think the same could be said for anything Align based. It's not hard for anything to be "a step up from a Trekker". I was really disappointed in that offering. They could have done so much more than simply stretching a 700 and including some extra cut plates to mount batteries on.

Henseleit also puts out the best manual in the business, but a wide margin. I read it just to learn some things about helis!

I'm working on a pretty radical layout myself. Basically a clean-sheet design for AP. Using mostly off the shelf mechanics, but rearranging them in a radical way.

Sounds like you have the camera hanging out the bottom (thus necessitating retracts)? I'm keeping mine in front. No more than a 270° field of view, but I'm designing it to take maximum advantage of a the heli's strengths (forward speed) so I don't want a camera hanging down low.

Rob
It's a Henseleit 3DRigid hot rod for mad 3D guys to smash up doing crazy stuff or go for speed records in excess of 260 kph. However it has a really nice rotor head and Drive system. I throw most of the rest away to get the parts that I want. I am not ready to release the design yet but It is a step up from the Trekker etc. Uses a Zen that floats on a magnetic field. And has a retract system to give a very wide uninterrupted view. Assymetric heavy blades etc. I would describe it's flight characteristics as ultra precision. But not for a novice pilot.

 

[redridinghood]

Three Dee Rigit

 

[DennyR]

I was mostly wondering what the "TDR" acronym was.

But since you went into detail, interesting stuff. 260 is very, very high. I didn't even know that was possible? I've got my 600 up to 110, but that's all she'll do with only 8° of pitch and 1700 rpm head speed. More than enough for me in any case.

Now I understand why you can say that the drivetrain is more reliable than a MR. That's a nice machine. I don't think the same could be said for anything Align based. It's not hard for anything to be "a step up from a Trekker". I was really disappointed in that offering. They could have done so much more than simply stretching a 700 and including some extra cut plates to mount batteries on.

Henseleit also puts out the best manual in the business, but a wide margin. I read it just to learn some things about helis!

I'm working on a pretty radical layout myself. Basically a clean-sheet design for AP. Using mostly off the shelf mechanics, but rearranging them in a radical way.

Sounds like you have the camera hanging out the bottom (thus necessitating retracts)? I'm keeping mine in front. No more than a 270° field of view, but I'm designing it to take maximum advantage of a the heli's strengths (forward speed) so I don't want a camera hanging down low.

Actually the camera mount is at the front. this is a very compact machine that stands only a couple of inches or so above the standard TDR.

As Walkera have now stepped up from TOYS to a decent 500 size heli that flies real nice. I don't think it would take too much effort to put a GoPro3 on the front with the new DJI GoPro mount. Don't under estimate Walkera they have some clever people there.

 

[3dheliguy]

TDR now thats a cool 3D heli. I fly all kinds of 3D helis, but I honestly would not want to fly them that hard there just more of a graceful bird, with the ability to haul butt.

When I start building my SR with my buddy, we will checking the TDR for most applications. The Design aspects are tryed and true with that bird as are most of Jans Designs.

Fun Stuff, but alot of work.