Raw aerial at an event rehearsal


They were rehearsing for an event I am going to go record today.

The gimbal was off center yesterday but is dead on today, so that won't be an issue.

And they will be in full dress today (gladitorial stuff).

This is my first time recording anything other than just flying the craft around my front yard or the park.
 
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jforkner

Member
With people and horses in a covered arena, I'd sure be careful. This has the potential to get ugly.

Good luck.

Jack
 

tstrike

pendejo grande
Considering the dude didn't know which way a prop washer went on just last week, what could go wrong?
 



kloner

Aerial DP
if i read all this right, it crashed after this? why was it flown in gps under a roof?

why is the camera so crooked?
 


Kilby

Active Member
Wow, this is the same guy that literally didn't have a copter 3 weeks ago, then spent thousands on a huge hexa only to admit when he couldn't fly it that he didn't know which direction was the front. Now he expects to start flying at an indoor arena filled with people? We may have found the one @$$hole that is going to end up on the news for killing a child or something with his copter.

AND he named his car p u s s y magnet. Wow.
 

I came here looking for help, but instead get this. Honestly, how is a person supposed to learn how to balance gimbals and figure out which way a prop washer goes on? I tried searching for help on those topics, and contacting the place I bought the craft from, before posting my questions here. When Google and Tony couldn't provide the answers, I came here hoping for assistance.

So if you feel that I need a certain kind of experience with the craft before I attempt recording something, please let me know nicely so that I can follow your advice, rather than being insulting, which can only make me feel like experimenting more on my own and not communicating with you experts for my future growth.

jforkner your first response to me made sense, thanks.
kloner, I had asked for assistance in another thread on how to balance the gimbal but didn't receive a reply, that is why it is crooked. Eventually was able to straighten the gimbal.

As far as flying at the event, the craft had a path from take off to inside the area which took it over no one's heads. It stayed over sandy area where there weren't people under it. There were no crowds or audience. Only 2 horses were in the area and were tested around the craft outside. The only time people went under the craft is when a couple of stuntmen ran from one side of it to the other.

My next plan for recording is trees in Big Bear, far from people. Hopefully that sounds safe enough for me to try.

If I post and say I want to do something you know I shouldn't do (until I get more experience, or at all), please nicely inform me of that and I will make an adjustment. If I ask for advice on how to fix something or learn something, doesn't it make sense to help me learn that rather than be insulting?

Do you want me to rebuild and go back out on my own, or do you want me to continue to talk to you as a group and improve my skills with your experience?

I'll just make this request one time: I'd like to stay on the forums and learn from the experts, but I don't appreciate being insulted because I have less experience and am trying to learn too fast. I made mistakes, but I'd like to fix them and do better.

Offer advice and help me grow, or continue to be insulting and make it so I don't come back to the forums. Won't stop me from flying, but will stop me from learning from you.
 

Kilby

Active Member
Ok, i'm sorry. I just get really upset when I see people doing obviously dangerous things with out any thought of others. Are you a father? If so, this is the way you should think of this copter. Anytime you start to think of flying anywhere close to people, imagine flying a buggy autonomous air craft with a bomb and spinning saw blades strapped to it around your kids. In short, that is what you are flying. Those blades will do some serious damage to any person they come in contact with. That huge lipo battery that you have strapped to it is also a great way to start a fire. Think flying around the trees is a safe thing? Now think about losing control of your copter again, but this time it flies into a tree 75 feet up and catches on fire from the lipo battery. These things do lose control and you could be prepared for that to happen. Even if you had a clear path to fly over, I guess it's obvious now that these aircraft do not always follow the path we have laid out for them, so we should assume that they will not and prepared.

The best advice that I, or probably anyone on this board, can offer is to learn to walk before you run. Take this golden opportunity to really learn about these aircraft. You have a crashed copter right now. While that may seem like a huge upset, look to the silver lining of the situation. Rebuild it this time YOURSELF. That is hands down the best way to learn the ins and outs of these things. I don't mean to rag on you, but if you didn't know how to straighten out the gimbal, you obviously didn't know enough to even think about flying it in doors, much less around people. If you didn't even know what end was the front, you OBVIOUSLY had no business flying around people. Take the next few months and just learn how to build and repair the thing yourself. It will really teach you the limitations of these aircraft so that you will be aware of what can, and often does, go wrong.

Also, do yourself a big favor and invest in a simulator program for your computer. You can learn to fly on that without risking damage to other people or their property. Flying something smaller is also a good idea, and it sounds like you have taken that step. That's awesome, but stick with it a bit more. Don't spend a week on an AR Drone and then jump to a multi-thousand dollar 10lb hexa.
 

Thanks, Kilby.

I'm looking in to getting a smaller craft, between the AR Drone and the 950 Carbon Core. After talking to Cliff at Atlanta Hobby, we think a 550 is more my speed until I up my skills.

I also plan on flying more in parks and fields until it's second nature to maneuver with it.

As far as rebuilding the craft goes, it would probably take getting a brand-new frame, as there aren't many salvageable parts left on it. If I switch down to a 550, I won't be keeping the same motors or props. I'll be moving the Wookong-M, receiver, video downlink to the 550, but that won't leave much behind except for the frame, motors, and props, right?

When you say that if I don't know (how to straighten a gimbal, or which way is front) then I shouldn't fly it indoors or around people... Obviously, I learned which way is front the first time I flew the craft. I was asking "which way is front" minutes after I received it in the mail and had parts in my living room ready to put together. I wouldn't seriously be asking which way is front so that I can go fly at an event - I was asking which way is front so I can put the right propellers on the right arms. I learned that, then spent 90 minutes a day, every day, flying it. While this doesn't make me an expert, I also didn't take it to a crowded event, but to a rehearsal, and made sure to get approval from the horse trainers, actors, owner of the venue, manager of the venue, leader of the acting troupe, and the insurance lady who was checking over things like spears and swords the actors were using. And this was all after being invited to do it by one of the actors.

As far as balancing the gimbal, I came here to ask how to do it, and *still* haven't received a reply on how to do it. So, if I walk around without that knowledge, that means I stay grounded for good? I can understand that, if you can help me figure out how to learn how to balance a gimbal... I tried calling the manufacturer (who literally told me he was walking in to a meeting and didn't have time to help me figure it out), I called the place I bought it from (he said it should self balance), I looked on Google and couldn't figure it out, I read the manual which tells me how to assemble it but not how to balance it. So I came and asked on these forums, and still don't know how. I'm doing everything I can to improve my knowledge and skills so that I can properly fly this craft without being a danger, and capture some good footage. I'm not just going out and flying and posting videos, but am actively pursuing knowledge.

I'm not a father, but I can understand what you mean about it being a dangerous tool. I will do my best to practice it safely.
 

tstrike

pendejo grande
I came here looking for help, but instead get this. Honestly, how is a person supposed to learn how to balance gimbals and figure out which way a prop washer goes on? I tried searching for help on those topics, and contacting the place I bought the craft from, before posting my questions here. When Google and Tony couldn't provide the answers, I came here hoping for assistance.

"How easy did you think these things were to fly that you were going to get all your answers from a bunch of strangers on the innerwebs?"

So if you feel that I need a certain kind of experience with the craft before I attempt recording something, please let me know nicely so that I can follow your advice, rather than being insulting, which can only make me feel like experimenting more on my own and not communicating with you experts for my future growth.

"You're a grown man, use your own common sense for gawds sake!"

jforkner your first response to me made sense, thanks.
kloner, I had asked for assistance in another thread on how to balance the gimbal but didn't receive a reply, that is why it is crooked. Eventually was able to straighten the gimbal.

"Your watch repairing neighbor came over and did something with an allen wrench and fixed it but you couldn't be bothered with learning how to do it yourself."

As far as flying at the event, the craft had a path from take off to inside the area which took it over no one's heads. It stayed over sandy area where there weren't people under it. There were no crowds or audience. Only 2 horses were in the area and were tested around the craft outside. The only time people went under the craft is when a couple of stuntmen ran from one side of it to the other.

"Do a Youtube search for "Mikrocopter Drone Crashes into building" and see just how fast these things get away from you, they can cover a hundred feet before you know what's going on."

My next plan for recording is trees in Big Bear, far from people. Hopefully that sounds safe enough for me to try.

"That's your call."

If I post and say I want to do something you know I shouldn't do (until I get more experience, or at all), please nicely inform me of that and I will make an adjustment. If I ask for advice on how to fix something or learn something, doesn't it make sense to help me learn that rather than be insulting?

"Did you read Jforkner's reply above?"

Do you want me to rebuild and go back out on my own, or do you want me to continue to talk to you as a group and improve my skills with your experience?

"I want you to box that beast up and not bother putting anyone else at risk, does it really matter what I want?"

I'll just make this request one time: I'd like to stay on the forums and learn from the experts, but I don't appreciate being insulted because I have less experience and am trying to learn too fast. I made mistakes, but I'd like to fix them and do better.

"Show some respect for the guys who do this for a living and have taken the time to learn the ins and outs of these twitchy weed wackers but don't come here thinking your owed something."

Offer advice and help me grow, or continue to be insulting and make it so I don't come back to the forums. Won't stop me from flying, but will stop me from learning from you.

"Again, you're a grown man, do what you want, but realize you're responsible for your actions and seeing how one accident from a guy cowboyin one of these machines into a crowd could shut this whole thing down and ruin the livelihood of more than a few experienced guys, show some respect."

TStrike
 
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Strange, I came here to these forums where people talk about these things and supposedly help each other learn about them, asked to learn, and get insulted by you.

I don't understand your comment about boxing it up without putting anyone else at risk. Wasn't everyone, at some point, inexperienced with RC craft? And they chose to learn by talking to people with more experience, spending time with the equipment, and eventually becoming experts? So right now, I am inexperienced, and am coming here looking for help so that I can get the appropriate experience safely. Wouldn't it make sense to help me learn, as opposed to being rude and chasing me off so I am flying on my own, without the benefit of your experience?

You say you have a livelihood and are an experienced guy, how am I to get to that point? I'm trying to learn from people who know and learn by experience. Offer some guidance instead of insults. If you don't feel that you owe me anything, then don't offer me anything. Your rudeness benefits no one.
 

tstrike

pendejo grande
Sean, I didn't say I make a living with these things and have I have no intentions of, but there are some guys here who do. I've been learning to fly these things for a year now and I still wouldn't think about flying around a crowd, maybe that's just me. You did all that testing with your batteries but didn't bother checking your settings in the dji assistant, why?
Let me help and extend an olive branch-take the belts off your gimbal and free up the servos, power it up and let the servos find center, balance your camera front to back and side to side, reattach the belts and your gimbal should be good.
I'm sorry you crashed, I'm glad no one was hurt and I think you're on the right track getting a smaller craft to learn on.
 

Thank you, tstrike. I will listen to your advice, and spend considerably more time learning the craft in a safer environment.

As far as checking the setting in the assistant, I got to the screen but did not understand the numbers. I did not want to make changes to the screen while not understanding the numbers, and didn't have time to research it at the time. I should have:
Turned off the auto-return function
Set a ceiling in the software lower than the actual ceiling

When I started the craft, it was outside. I got GPS lock and it was happy, then I flew it through one of the openings the horses use to get in and out (the one not being used by horses or people). I "thought" that I had turned off GPS mode when I got inside, but obviously I forgot to flip that switch to Atti mode.

Removing the belts is yet a different approach. I had one person tell me I had to take the servo apart, re-center an axle, then put the servo back together. Your suggestion sounds far easier, and easier to repeat if I change cameras or it gets off center again. Perhaps what you suggested is what the watch-repairing neighbor did, I will ask him to demonstrate it again so that I can learn.
 

Tomstoy2

Member
All right, everybody calm down now. Points are made.

Sean, you learned an important lesson, and thankfully nobody was hurt.

Everybody's point was, you don't do this in a few days. This thing we do takes time, serious time.

So, let's move on.

Advise you want, here it is.

1. Rebuild your rig, don't buy another frame, or even another smaller rig to learn with. Why? Several reasons.
a. This will teach you what you need to know about building and maintaining one of these things. There is a ton to know, and like it or not there is no getting beyond this, you have to know every last little thing, every detail of every single component to get to the stage of where you want to be.
b. believe it or not, your 900 will teach you everything and be more stable. You already own it, so exploit it.

Look at this as your opportunity to learn all of this very important information that you have to know, even if it means you are not flying fo awhile, instead of just throwing more money into a second rig to just fly.

I'm sorry you wrecked your rig! The truth is it wasn't unexpected. It's all part of the learning process. You HAVE to pay your dues in this hobby.
Understand that nothing here that we do is perfected yet, all of this is just a few years old. Right now the industry of these things is in it's toddler years.
Things go wrong, all the time. Like it or not, we the end users are the beta testers.

Another piece of advise, once you do have the 900 up and ready to fly, leave the park out of the equation. Go to a nice large open area, out in the country to fly. Do this until you have full confidence in your rig, and then do it even more.
These guys are right, these things are seriously dangerous! It's just a matter of time before one actually kills someone. Hell, mine damn near killed me!

So, let's just slow things down a little and quit trying to run before you can walk, so to speak.
You have the desire, obviously, now it's time to focus that in a positive direction.

Examining your previous posts, you obviously went into lvc failsafe. I tried to tell you that the way to prevent this from happening is to turn off lvc, just use your timer on your tx.
You went into lvc because one of your batterys is not right. I suspect you flew with that bad battery.
Without lvc on, what would have happened is that you just would have lost the power to fly, she would have just enough power to get you back down onto the ground in a controlled manner, abet quickly.
LVC is a great feature, but you really need to know that battery conditions change and how to recgonize this when it happens. You then have to constantly modify the settings to accomodate this.
As I said, personally, I don't use it, just too much of a hassle. Those that are in this professionally have to as part of the protocol. If you want to get to the professional level, you will too, but first there are other things you need to learn first. So, it's a matter of dividing it all up into segments, and learn each segment individually, before attempting the next segment.

First segment, rebuild your rig.
2, understanding every component and how it all has to work in harmony.
3, we mentioned, flying it properly and safely.
4, rebuild your gimbal
5, interaction between the gimbal and flying.

This is just the beginning, don't bite off more than you can chew at one given time. No shortcuts here. It all takes time, serious time. Only dedication to each step will get you where you want to be.

One thing we seem to gloss over and not mention enough is safety. This comes in several factors, working on your rig safely, safe practices, safe flying, pre-flight safety, post-fligh safety.
I guatantee you, once you think you are safe, you are not, double check, think again.

So, for the first step, I recommend you ascess the damage, work up a list of what you need and order it.
While you are waiting, go over the WKM manual again, and again, until you know it thoroughly, and along with any other component documentation you have. If you did not get any for the motors and esc's, then look it up online and read up on it. Understand what an esc is, how it does what it does and how to set one up properly. How a motor works, how to change the ratation of a motor.

Do not strip your rig down until you get the parts. Once you do start stripping them down, take pictures so you know how it reassembles and take notes to help you.

Asking for help along the way is acceptable, yes, but helping yourself is paramount. Read first, then ask.
 

Droider

Drone Enthusiast
Sean.

You seem to have had a baptism of fire here.

Tomstoy2's post is very helpful for you and is a great advocate for this site. (Thanks Tomstoy2 for jumping in here)

Take a BIG step back and take in the whole picture. I personally think you have been very luck. I hope you are really well insured. You filmed in a very difficult environment with people who can be pretty predictable and can understand your commands to DUCK but you had another totally unpredictable equation in the ring.. horses. Bloodyhell as much as I love um I also hate um. unpredictable and totally a law unto themselves, that is of course unless you are 'THE' horse whisperer to beat 'ALL' horse whisperers.

Everyone on here wants to help but I think you jumped in with both size 15's here. Think your self luck you only ended up with a busted MR.
Listen and learn before attempting something like that again as even with my hundreds of hours on the sticks that trick was just one I would have said a very BIG 'NO' to.

Post away and lets get you up and running again.

Dave
 
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Kilby

Active Member
Hey Sean, one last question. I'm just wondering how you came to be filming something like that after only having owned an MR for a couple of weeks. Does that arena belong to your family by chance?
 

I know an actor in the event. We talked about recording it with the copter (at a time when I thought it had no roof over it). It came about very quickly; he saw my posts about getting the copter, they had their last non-dress rehearsal in two days' time, he asked around and was approved.

Once I got there, I made a point of approaching everyone who might have any interest in safety and made sure they came and watched it fly around before they approved it. Not just hear about it, or see it sitting on the ground, but actually watch me lift it up and fly it around first. Honestly, I was amazed at how quickly everyone accepted it after seeing it. The only guy who showed any hesitation at all was a horse trainer, but after watching the horses under it, he said they didn't seem to mind and approved it.

I had gone with more safety reservations than they had. Everyone there was quite encouraging about me getting involved in every aspect of the event. Horse riders were asking me to bring it in and recording them riding away from it and towards it, like chase scenes. Actors were saluting it like a general on the battlefield.
 

nicwilke

Active Member
I know an actor in the event. We talked about recording it with the copter (at a time when I thought it had no roof over it). It came about very quickly; he saw my posts about getting the copter, they had their last non-dress rehearsal in two days' time, he asked around and was approved.

Once I got there, I made a point of approaching everyone who might have any interest in safety and made sure they came and watched it fly around before they approved it. Not just hear about it, or see it sitting on the ground, but actually watch me lift it up and fly it around first. Honestly, I was amazed at how quickly everyone accepted it after seeing it. The only guy who showed any hesitation at all was a horse trainer, but after watching the horses under it, he said they didn't seem to mind and approved it.

I had gone with more safety reservations than they had. Everyone there was quite encouraging about me getting involved in every aspect of the event. Horse riders were asking me to bring it in and recording them riding away from it and towards it, like chase scenes. Actors were saluting it like a general on the battlefield.

Sean,
I'm a little on the daring side of things most of the times, but I've been working on my aerial video solution for over 14 months now. I started on a hobby octo (coaxial) crashed & rebuilt many times. I got myself a simulator, and became a gun at that. It much cheaper, and I could also train in things you would never try with a real machine (like cut the motors high up, re arm, and fly out).

I'm now in a position with frame, gimbal, cameras, batteries, motors, props, speed controllers and last but not least, flight controller/autopilot systems to do some work. With each ingredient of multirotors comes a plethora of other ingredients. Take the frame for example, size, shape, weight etc... every thing effects all the other ingredients. I do my multirotor stuff in my spare time (limited) and have worked carefully to get things set up. One step at a time, I progressed (and progress is also crashing the bastards). Even this week, I was sorting out a heat issue on my latest frame by removing the 30A speedies and replacing them with 40A's. Right to the last prop pitch and balance tests, its always a work in progress.

Consider yourself lucky to learn some great lessons, and having the balls to show up here and airing your mistakes with us. I dont judge you're decisions on how you want to operate, there's a lot to learn, and that's why I'm here, to learn of the others.

Tomstoys suggestions are a great place to start the next step, rebuild my friend, and with each step forward (including crashes) you will become wiser with this awesome industry.

keep safe champ.
 

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