Phobotic CenterPiece Owners Thread.

[SamaraMedia]

Agreed! There are so many integral parts that can be causing vibration issues. My DIY quick release mounting plate could cause vibes, it might be better to use some Tarot 12mm rail mounts hard mounted to my gimbal plate rather than the QR. Might still need to find the best position for the gimbal under the rig in relation to the battery for best balance, right now the gimbal is forward of center and batt is behind, maybe a little shift of both will be better to get it away from any prop wash that may be occurring, I don't think there is much since the gimbal is not that far out front.

One off topic ? The Super X IO unit, does the mounting orientation matter in relation to the front, back, side? My servo wires from the esc junction box of the Tarot design are too short to allow a 90 degree or parallel mounting so it is slightly angled. I have read it doesn't matter but curious since I don't get great GPS position hold even when I get 8-10 sats.

 

[Motopreserve]

The I/O should not matter. I have had it set on its side with no issue.

I think it may be best to center the gimbal - if for no other reason that it may help allow the superb to work less to keep a perfect balance. Of course, then you have to mess with the batteries

If you have the ability to lose the QR, at least for testing, would be another thing checked off and eliminated from the list of potential issues.

 

[fltundra]

One off topic ? The Super X IO unit, does the mounting orientation matter in relation to the front, back, side? My servo wires from the esc junction box of the Tarot design are too short to allow a 90 degree or parallel mounting so it is slightly angled. I have read it doesn't matter but curious since I don't get great GPS position hold even when I get 8-10 sats.

Can't tell from your photo, but you might try moving the receiver antenna's farther away from the gps. I have RC and VTX below the arms.

 

[SamaraMedia]

Thanks guys, I'll make some adjustments and test again.

 

[Mactadpole]

I had similar results, even after chasing changes to the dampening plate, very similar results.

The BB vibe readings were low, and my GoPro footage (hard mounted to center plates on Roee's request) showed perfectly stable footage. So I would certainly suggest getting the MR vibe-free, but that might not be the only issue that's causing these issues on the Quadframe gimbal.

Pretty much exact same experience as Motopreserve for me too. I will reiterate that my hard mounted GoPro footage also showed no vibes. The most success I have had so far is using harder dampers than original and sandwiching a natural sponge in between the bottom plate of frame and vibe-damper plate.

I am curious if anyone has tried these - Vibration Isolator V2 or this - STO Vibration Isolator

or

 

[fltundra]

Pretty much exact same experience as Motopreserve for me too. I will reiterate that my hard mounted GoPro footage also showed no vibes. The most success I have had so far is using harder dampers than original and sandwiching a natural sponge in between the bottom plate of frame and vibe-damper plate.

I am curious if anyone has tried these - Vibration Isolator V2 or this - STO Vibration Isolator

I am using the small wire isolator with my Gopro gimbal.
http://multirotorforums.com/threads/stratus-productions-wire-vibration-isolater.22388/

and replaced the compression dampener balls with 15x15x5mm silicone chips.

http://www.vibrationmounts.com/Store.asp?Page=Products8.htm
Here's a sample raw video.1o80p30/medium

 

[SleepyC]

Pretty much exact same experience as Motopreserve for me too. I will reiterate that my hard mounted GoPro footage also showed no vibes. The most success I have had so far is using harder dampers than original and sandwiching a natural sponge in between the bottom plate of frame and vibe-damper plate.

I am curious if anyone has tried these - Vibration Isolator V2 or this - STO Vibration Isolator

or

I have the bottom STO vibe plate, it was not good. It took out small vibrations but let the gimbal move too much. I did not try to add more rings tho, so if you want to try it, I would suggest getting 4 more of the ring sets and run 8 total, this would probably help stop the gimbal motion.

 

[violetwolf]

I've heard a few others that were unhappy with the wire type dampers.

I'm a fan of the o ring types myself. Although the V2 types above look good atva good price I'll also throw Secraft Dampers on the list for the budget conscious: http://www.secraft.net/shop/step1.php?number=1300

 

[Mactadpole]

I am using the small wire isolator with my Gopro gimbal.
http://multirotorforums.com/threads/stratus-productions-wire-vibration-isolater.22388/

and replaced the compression dampener balls with 15x15x5mm silicone chips.

http://www.vibrationmounts.com/Store.asp?Page=Products8.htm
Here's a sample raw video.

That is pretty darn nice video! Any chance you could share details of the setup or a pic of how you use the silicone chips? What gimbal?

Thanks for sharing!

 

[fltundra]

That is pretty darn nice video! Any chance you could share details of the setup or a pic of how you use the silicone chips? What gimbal?

Thanks for sharing!

I'll pm a pic this weekend, It's just a DYS 3 axis w/8bit Basecam.

 

[Cameraj]

All quiet around the cp world, I can't get my other gimbal to stop wanting to keep auto turning have have to pull the plug to get it to stop, with the latest firmware. I sent two requests, and I all I get back is "the gains look high "and they can be adjusted, ok but how? No repsonce. Any ideas?

 

[Motopreserve]

I'm about to get back to it after a move - and a longer time to set up a shop than I'd hoped.

Have you tried doing an auto tune 1 axis at a time? I found that I had less issues tuning that way. Give it a shot and see where your gains end up.

What's the gimbal you're working with???

 

[Cameraj]

I tried it that way with the gimbal going crazy at the end of the tune, the older firmware worked one axis at a time. the gimbal is the
Legacy 3-Axis. the strange part, it worked well in handheld , I converted it over to fly it and problems. one thing is for sure with the cp gimbal is it has to be almost hard mounted, even with trying that, no luck with 1334,

 

[Motopreserve]

I think the handheld is a different beast altogether. Not necessarily easy, but easier. I've had gimbals that never worked aerial actually look ok in basic handheld/ground tests.

I think if you're having the auto-tune failure issues - it may be binding/resistance at one (or more of the axis).

I've said it before: if Phobotic could somehow package a product with auto-tune only function in a small, inexpensive box - it would make the best "gimbal tester" out there!

 

[violetwolf]

Yes hard, completely rigid, mounting while tuning and PERFECT balance, especially on the yaw axis is absolutely required.

For balance the camera must sit in any position you put it in even while moving the gimbal. If it sits there perfectly, and can be moved by blowing on it, or setting a dime on an arm etc. Then it's a good bet your balance and binding are OK.

 

[Cameraj]

Thank so much guys for all your help, I think it's time to cut my losses and by a ronin m, I love to build and test and tune, but the effort and aggravation I have put into the Cp board is to much ,I'm driving the wife crazy now , it's funny that I have two Cp boards, the one with a nex camera works good, when I get up in weight to the bigger gimbal it won't tune, the gains go off the chart in the high direction. And on the nex the gains where always way to low,

 

[Motopreserve]

It's weird. I had the opposite issue. The smaller gimbal seemed to have a harder time than the larger, heavier setup.

Good luck with the new rig.

 

[jdennings]

Trying to get a CP to work with Legacy 3 axis and Canon 7D (light 50mm lens just to check on the bench), autotune is a no go. Power settings complete fine, (4S set-up), pitch also, but roll gets in the 1 Million+ for gain, backs down to 600k or so, then after what looks like a couple smooth rolls it starts buzzing/vibrating in what appears like the start of an infinite loop where it rocks back and forth and I have to abort. Have tried both with hard mount and anti-vibration plate. Gimbal is balanced "perfect" on pitch axis and yaw, (camera stable in any x-y orientation), for roll the best I've been able to do is get the top horizontal tube dead level and returning to level after disturbance. For yaw I've set-up the gimbal upside down and balanced to have stability no matter what rotation in the z-axis. Am I missing something or what else can/could be done for roll and/or yaw balancing?

I've played with a few parameters trying to tune it manually, at some point I was able to get yaw autotuning independently, and tried using 1x, 2x and 3x yaw parameters for roll, I got the gimbal to apparently work perfectly up to maybe 5-10 degree rolls max, after which it goes nuts and in recovery mode. I've ruled out motor slop, (can't get the axes to turn independently of motors by hand) and in fact if I ever need to change them I'll have to use heat as I can't even turn the set screws. Also ruled out bad motors, seems extremely unlikely given partial success at "some" stabilization. My immediate plan is to re-balance one more time with hardmount, also maybe dig out an old AM 8-bit 3 axis controller I have and see if I have some luck.

At a loss here, I think I read Samur actually has extensively used this gimbal for development (maybe only with a lighter GH4)? Also Rick has had good luck with a 5D? Sent a support ticket with logs last Sunday to Phobotic, haven't heard a thing since, I plan to write something similar in the Phobotic forum, but I must say that the last few posts in this thread + it's relative "quietness" here and on Phobotic forum has got me concerned ... (Read pretty much all threads there). There's also Gary McGready over on the Legacy thread on that other forum whose apparently has had success and much better results than Alexmos, but with a lighter Canon T4i ...

Anyone, any advice, ideas, gotchas, "been there, done that, sort of thing"? Any successful CP + Legacy + FF DSLR out there? Really want to get this baby working, if not perfect for aerial (at which point I'll cough up and get a Movi M5) at least 1/2 decently to convert it to handheld ....

 

[Motopreserve]

I don't have the legacy - but one thing that I notice you mention is that the roll balance does not seem complete.

Can you explain the procedure you did to balance the camera/gimbal?

 

[violetwolf]

Yes, I'm thinking static balance, geometry, or IMU mounting.., and how rigid the gimbal is held during tuning should be looked at.

1. If you figure your balance is perfect then how about the geometry of the gimbal: The forks must be absolutely parallel.. I'll use a pc of square tuning across the forks to hold them perfectly parallel to each other then tighten.. Same with the hangers that hang the camera. (pitch). And when viewed from the top the forks must be perfectly perpendicular to the yaw arm.

2. Also for balancing the yaw axis must be perfectly balanced. When you tilt the whole gimbal fore and aft and side to side it must not roll at all in the yaw axis (or any other axis). I'm happy when I can put my camera in any position and shake the gimbal around and the camera doesn't move. Another test is to put a coin on the roll arm etc .. it should be enough to upset the balance.. if not then maybe look at binding issues.

3. See my pics below of a quick and dirty but highly effective IMU mount for the Legacy. A super solid mount is essential.

4. Then there's how rigid do you clamp down the gimbal during tuning. This must be absolutely rigid. Holding it or leaving in it's cradle will not do. We clamp our legacy (hand held) to a post that holds up the roof in the studio. For My Famous BG001 gimbal I built a plywood cantilever box with a dedicated quick release, so I can unclip from my copter and clip it onto the wooden frame for balancing / working on / and transporting. Again a completely rigid mount, free from the vibe dampers while tuning.

Posting some photos of your rig would be very helpful JD

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