Phobotic Centerpiece Brushless Gimbal Controller

SamaraMedia

Active Member
I just wanted to report back that I seem to have my gimbal with CP working very well now. I had a test flight yesterday and shot some boring video that looked excellent. I went ahead and added my camera trigger and needed to rebalance because of it and because I noticed a few things were not quit centered, etc. I decided to stiffen by dampening system by tightening the nylon screws I have through them (see pic). I ran autotune again and I actually get no buzzing in any position. Even when I tilt the copter to extreme positions. I ran autotune three times to see if I got different values or response and all were very close. I have posted my final values in the CP Gimbal user datasheet I created: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QFmev59-NXFEOY5o9l_Z17cwKe7dK-62IvCgPVCL-E4/edit#gid=0
Everyone is welcome to use this spreadsheet so we can see what settings others have for their CP's. I will try to get some more video soon.

A few pics attached so others can see my setup.
View attachment 23870 View attachment 23871
Thanks Mactadpole! I have the same gimbal, using a different camera, but I like your idea of using the nylon screws. I have felt the rubber isolation balls were way too soft so I will be copying your setup. How are you getting power to the CP? Small dedicated battery or are you running of the main power source?

Thanks,

John
 

Mactadpole

Member
Thanks Mactadpole! I have the same gimbal, using a different camera, but I like your idea of using the nylon screws. I have felt the rubber isolation balls were way too soft so I will be copying your setup. How are you getting power to the CP? Small dedicated battery or are you running of the main power source?

Thanks,

John

You bet! The nylon screws are great for adjusting the dampening. I run mine off a 12 volt bec built into pdb. I just used a servo lead and it seems fine. I've checked if it's hot at all and nothing. That's after a 20 minute flight.
 

SamaraMedia

Active Member
Thanks! I think I'll take advantage of the Adir board from Roee and do the same. Plan on strapping under the Tarot X6 I recently picked up.
 

Thanks! I think I'll take advantage of the Adir board from Roee and do the same. Plan on strapping under the Tarot X6 I recently picked up.

The Adir board is awesome. Clean power, enough 5V and 12V outputs and having that switch is great. I can have all my electronics powered on the gimbal (rx, hdmi convertor and immersionrc tx) so that the only wire that goes up through the yaw motor is a power cable.
 




Update #1- both CP's updated smoothly. Both auto-tuned well. The gimbal analysis graph is awesome.

Weather is awful so can't fly today but looking forward to taking both units in the air.
 




1333 can improve - but not altogether fix - buzzing when tilting. The source of that is mechanical, this is something that's important to stress. Perhaps with other controllers you don't get to a tuning that's aggressive enough to see buzzing - that just means it doesn't stabilize right in the straighahead position, either.
We're evaluating solutions for future versions.
 

Kilby

Active Member
Blaming it on the mechanics of the gimbal sounds like a cop out to me. I guess every gimbal in the world was designed wrong. What a waste of time and money.
 

Blaming it on the mechanics of the gimbal sounds like a cop out to me. I guess every gimbal in the world was designed wrong. What a waste of time and money.

Vibration when tilting has nothing to do with being "designed wrong". Any gimbal design has some compromises according to their specific use case. Standard pitch-roll-yaw gimbals are compromised in that when pitching down, the lens mass becomes perpendicular - rather than axial - to the roll motor, and that causes gains to be incorrect for this situation. Yaw can be affected too, but less so (because the weight of the camera is a smaller part of the overall yaw axis mass - the other being the pitch and roll assemblies).
There are ways to go around it with software and we're doing that, but the source of the problem is inherent (and in fact has nothing to do with the pitch axis which people think is the problem source, incorrectly).

How bad this behavior is depends on three factors:

1. The weight distribution of the camera
2. How aggressively the controller is tuned in the straight ahead position
3. The rigidity of the gimbal structure

There are other gimbal designs like the Letus Helix which avoid this by placing the pitch as an external axis, but they have other limitations (like gimbal locks when yawing).
Had this problem been in the CP software, you'd see it on any gimbal, but it's far from reality (it does happen on many gimbals, but certainly not all or the majority of gimbals). We don't see it often with square payloads like a GoPro.

The reason this problem is more prominent in the CP comes from the tuning precision the autotune achieves (which is why manually reducing the gains solves this problem many times).
Most consumer cameras aren't very long or don't have very heavy lenses, so you might not be seeing it with less precise controllers. It doesn't mean it's not there and we have a customer flying a 10kg camera with heavy lenses that had the same exact problems on Alexmos before.
Obviously when the forces the controller needs to deal with change, the tuning becomes invalid. It's physics, as always. Mass that was axial and now placed far away, perpendicularly, is going to behave completely differently (gain changes up to 100% according to our tests!).

The rigidity of the gimbal structure is another matter - some gimbals deforms when the camera is pointed down, due to the weight of the camera being supported by a mounting single bolt that's experiencing shear forces (instead of resting on the gimbal pitch shelf, as it would in the straightahead position).
 

Cameraj

Member
I think what would help a lot of us with the CP , is to have a tuening video, we are all pretty handy when it comes to building fixing :). I think if we had a video on how to work the different features that would help . If your gimbal is doing this when you run the analyzer then you can try doing this, etc,
Just a though
 

Mactadpole

Member
I think what would help a lot of us with the CP , is to have a tuening video, we are all pretty handy when it comes to building fixing :). I think if we had a video on how to work the different features that would help . If your gimbal is doing this when you run the analyzer then you can try doing this, etc,
Just a though

+1!!
 


econfly

Member
Very nice to see the updated firmware out. I'm more excited about the F1. To my mind, this is the ultimate test and proof of operation -- an integrated product that takes away all of the variables associated with hand built gimbals, tuning issues, poorly constructed gimbals, etc. If it delivers, I'm putting it on my next build.
 

Well, the F1 will not see the market. We tried, but simply couldn't get the business side to work in a satisfying way.
We had another gimbal design done in parallel, for bigger cameras, and it is being tested now.

The new gimbal is designed to carry everything from a BMPCC to a Blackmagic 4K, 5D and other heavyweights (whereas the F1 stopped at GH4), and can also do a stripped down RED (would go great with their new WEAPON body upgrade). Effective focal length will be 50mm+ at release, and we'll work to extend it later with better software. Carbon construction, quick release everything, nice camera mounting system. We're evaluating some custom electronics now (more sophisticated than on the F1) to go along with it, we'll see what kind of package we get to.

The price point is going to be fantastic for a product of this level.

We learned a lot from the development of the F1. We're very confident that implementing all these lessons into our new product will create a market leader. New firmwares are going more and more in the pro direction. Other gimbal makers focus on handheld first; we are pro aerial first and our products will reflect that.
 

econfly

Member
Well, the F1 will not see the market. We tried, but simply couldn't get the business side to work in a satisfying way.
We had another gimbal design done in parallel, for bigger cameras, and it is being tested now.

The new gimbal is designed to carry everything from a BMPCC to a Blackmagic 4K, 5D and other heavyweights (whereas the F1 stopped at GH4), and can also do a stripped down RED (would go great with their new WEAPON body upgrade). Effective focal length will be 50mm+ at release, and we'll work to extend it later with better software. Carbon construction, quick release everything, nice camera mounting system. We're evaluating some custom electronics now (more sophisticated than on the F1) to go along with it, we'll see what kind of package we get to.

The price point is going to be fantastic for a product of this level.

We learned a lot from the development of the F1. We're very confident that implementing all these lessons into our new product will create a market leader. New firmwares are going more and more in the pro direction. Other gimbal makers focus on handheld first; we are pro aerial first and our products will reflect that.

Sounds like this new bigger gimbal is of a size comparable to the MŌVI M5 -- is that about right? Too bad about the F1. There is a market for a high quality adjustable smaller gimbal (at least I would like to find one).
 

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