Noob TX question...please be gentle!

[Motopreserve]

In doing research for my very first quad build, I understand that the transmitter is possibly one investment that could be long-term, if you do your homework and dedicate a decent budget to it. I would love to buy a good TX that I can use for quite some time, regardless of where this hobby may lead me.

The problem for a noob then becomes which brand/model to choose. While I understand this question can raise a bunch of Ford vs Chevy feedback (or god forbid a "which oil is best" debate!), There are some questions that I have about specific models (can this possibly stay on topic???) :dread:

In reading this THREAD, I shifted from leaning Spektrum to considering Futaba again. It seems that along with history of quality, Futaba may be geared a little better toward the multirotor market (???). I did research on the Spektrum DX9 ($400 TX only), which was appealing because it had all the features it seemed I'd need (enough channels to grow, current freq band, DSM2 & DSMX etc), and some that just seemed helpful (the voice feature seems like it could help the inexperienced if built in telemetry is set up correctly).

It's very new, so there is not a ton of DX9 info out there yet. The 2 Futaba models I find straddle the DX9 price point, the 8J (under $300) and the 8FGH ($450 +/-). Both the Futabas come with RX, but I am not sure whether they are of the quality needed to start out - or whether that would have to be an immediate upgrade. The DX9 might need something like an AR8000?

My question would be: What is the best choice/value for: quad, approximate $500 budget (w/RX), RTH, fail safe, telemetry warnings (?), eventual GoPro set-up, MAYBE FPV at some point, and who knows what else???

I know that either choice will put a smile on my face once I begin to fly. But at this point, if I can hone in on a wise choice for what I need (and WILL need), I'd feel better about the purchase. I'd like to hear opinions on the pros and cons of these 2 (or 3) choices. And then I can make a good decision for my specific build/needs.

Thanks in advance.

Scott

 

[kloner]

the futaba fasst is the most rock solid link i know of and the futaba line is considered to be a higher grade of radio. it has a more in touch feel with the model with less missed packets.... I have jr 11x, futaba 8j, futaba 8fg, have flown dx8, jr9503, dx7 and a few others setting up models for people. The futaba is a superior radio and right now with 8fg being less than $500 is a great time to get into one. 8j doesn't come with a battery or charger, it has a flimsier feel with a lower resolution which is fine for beginning, but eventually if you stay in it and get around other radios the 8fg would be the one to show up with.... I flew jr for 18 years before trying futaba and spent near a grand on the radio & hands down for me, 8fg.... it can send 12ch so theres plenty of room to grow and still have a switch or knob for every feature on something like a sky jib with retracts and an a2,,, using subs so just one wire from rx to the flight controller. jr doesn't have that so 8ch is 8 wires in same said spot, 12 is 12 wires, etc. Futaba is also supported way better for uhf long range systems if that's the path you go with fpv....

 

[Motopreserve]

Thanks so much for the quick reply! I was certainly leaning in the direction of the Futaba for my needs, and sticking with the idea of buying something that will stand the test of time, regardless of whether I upgrade down the road - I'd like something that will still have a value for quite some time.

Would you consider the included 6208SB RX fine for an initial build? I'm only looking to make this thing fly and for learn at first - before moving into more expensive/complicated uses (gopro, FPV etc). Upgrading an RX down the road is fine, but the 8FGH is available without the RX if it's best to just upgrade from the get-go.

Is the 8FGH equipped with telemetry capabilities? Or do you need to jump to the next level for that? I have had a hard time finding straight answers. Just simple stuff like battery feedback etc.

Appreciate your advice.

 

[kloner]

yes, its a full featured 8ch.... more than enough

think telemetry is on 14sg.... it's only $100 more. I've always used osd's since they tend to show more of what i'm interested in like where i am and how to get back.... voltage, some have amp draw, airspeed, etc.

 

[Motopreserve]

Thanks again Kloner. It seems OSD could be a reasonable solution for some of the info I was looking for (very basic stuff at first for sure). The reviews of the 8FGH seem overwhelmingly positive, and if keeping the budget in check, probably should reserve the $100 for replacement parts I will surely break during my learning process...

 

[Motopreserve]

Hey Kloner,

Sorry to bug you again - but in doing some more research about these Futaba TX units, I noticed that they don't seem to come with the extra voltage cable that connects the included RX. Is that correct??? Or am I reading that wrong? Is this a cable I can just make myself???

Thanks. The research continues....

 

[COMike93yj]

Hi Moto....

I was going through the same research as you have done and it does seem to come down to a Ford v. Chevy debate at times. I got some very good information by checking out many of the websites and actually got an outstanding PM from a member. He told me to take a look at Craigslist! I had never really considered that but to my surprise I found a Spektrum DX8 that was a year old, had an upgraded battery, and had the TM1000 telemetry module (unused) all for $200 which was a pretty fair price. The gentleman I purchased it from was extremely nice and the TX was in immaculate condition.

So you might want to consider checking into the local Craigslist advertisements or the WTB/WTT portions of various forums.

Good luck!!!!

 

[Motopreserve]

So you might want to consider checking into the local Craigslist advertisements or the WTB/WTT portions of various forums.

Good luck!!!!

Thanks Mike,

I did check CL first thing when I was first starting to research. Problem is: I live in Vermont - and there appears to be few enthusiasts up here - let alone a shop! Not one local place within 100 miles as far as I can tell. Of course the upside is that there is more than enough room to spread out and fly without bothering anyone

What craft did you end up with? Congrats on finding a great deal for your Tx.

 

[COMike93yj]

Moto....I have not ended up with a craft yet....I am having ankle reconstruction in a couple of weeks and will be non-weight bearing for over 12 weeks. I am using this time to research and build one myself.

I am a TOTAL new person to this....used to fly RC Heli's (total novice) and got more time on the RealFlight 3.5 simulator than on the actual heli...LOL. They were still using FM TXs back in 2005ish when I was interested.

I dusted off the old Heli and then found out about quads. Now I have been bitten by the quad bug but have a WHOLE new realm to learn about.


There is a Group Build thread here that I am going to follow along with and try and figure out just what works for me. I already have a Mobius Action Cam that I use as a Dashcam in the car that I will be using initially for recording my flights. Seems like a 450 size would be a good one to do some real learning on and be able to upgrade a bit in the future.

What are you looking to make or have you made the decision yet?

 

[Motopreserve]

Well, sorry to hear about the surgery - but it looks like you have somehow found an upside to the downtime.

I am not married to anything as of yet, and my list seems to be an ever-changing, evolving entity with a life all it's own...

At the moment, I have been leaning toward building a quad based on the 550mm HK X650F frame. It's a bit heavy compared to others I've researched, but has some appealing features (tall and ready for additional parts and camera etc) and doesn't break the bank. The basic outline right now would be: X650F, Turnigy motors, batteries and ESC (flirted with the Q-Brain, but makes it impossible to buy a couple spares), decent props (with spares to destroy!) and a Multiwii EZ3.0 controller with GPS. So far, the specs I plot into the ecalc seem to have good results. Not sure I understand all the results, but they seem to make the algorithm happy...

I'd love to eventually custom-build an aluminum based frame at my shop - the irony is not lost on me that I am moving backwards and heavier with my metal machinery (650lb. 1951 South Bend lathe and 1200lb. 1973 Millrite milling machine) to build something state of the art and measured in grams! :highly_amused:

I continue to enjoy practicing with the small quad I bought for that purpose - luckily my shop is within an old granite shed (factory) so I have 40 foot ceilings and plenty of floor space to mess around in. Otherwise I'd be waiting til I could dig myself out of the snow banks to get any flying in...

 

[Motopreserve]

There is a Group Build thread here that I am going to follow along with and try and figure out just what works for me.

Thanks for the heads up. I had seen that thread and planned on going back to it - but never got there. Read almost the whole thing last night - but fell asleep with the ipad on my chest about 3/4 through... Great idea by Bart, and a welcomed, informative thread even if you aren't doing the build.

Pulled the trigger on the Futaba 14SGH last night. As usual, more than I planned on spending, but rationalized that it will be an investment, and resale value should be better worst case, if my interest crashes (pun intended!). Felt sorta premature, but I realized that I could research round and round and NEVER make a decision, so took advantage of some pre-holiday sales and went for it. I'm feeling that way about the build as well - I jest need to get to ordering parts and building. Mistakes are sure to be made, but if I don't dive right in, I'll never get anywhere...

Plan on posting my proposed parts list in a separate thread to see what the collective has for me, in terms of advice and steering me in the right direction.

 

[kloner]

since your this close, regular hobby shops have mad discounts on black friday,,, in 4 days. The specialized hobby guys that just carry multis don't so much, but places that that have always been around and carry rc hell stuff now carrying multis will.... like 10-50% off depending what your after. When i was into single rotors, this used to be a 3-5k weekend for me. Id save all year for it and come up big..... helidirect, amainhobbies, helipal, heliproz, esprit are just a few that go crazy right here on friday, usually through the weekend

 

[Motopreserve]

Thanks Kloner. I was planning on waiting - hoping to get some good discounts. Thanks for the list of suppliers. I figure I can post some proposed parts, see what you all have for advice/changes, and then order up when the orderin' gets good!

Still have some research to do. My ecalc "success" was based on developing a craft that didn't have the bright red warnings at the bottom, but turned out I'd be flying for about 3 minutes I know it's only a guide, and I should not expect long flight times, but I think I have something in the calculation that is keeping it quite low.

More tweaking...

 

[kloner]

what are you carrying on what frame?

 

[Motopreserve]

As it stands (for the next 7 seconds! I was looking at eventually carrying a GoPro 2 on a HK X650F frame (598g). To start, I would be flying without camera, but it may just be too heavy. I know that people have successfully built this type of set-up, so the issue is probably the components I'm looking at.

Basic outline has been:

FRAME: X650F
FC: Witespy Multiwii EZ3.0 w/GPS
ESC: Multistar 30A
Motors: Turnigy D2830-11 1000/kv (FWIW I have plugged several in and these seem to chart the best)
Props: APC SF 10/4.7
Battery: Turnigy 3300 3S 30C or Turnigy 4000 3S 30C


Not sure how to calculate the effect of running 2 batteries in parallel. I know it would add some weight, so I'm unclear as to the estimated loss/gain. I am open to ALL suggestions, because this is so new to me, and I have no loyalty to any part/component. I have been shooting for purchasing from within the USA (I've had both good and bad experiences ordering motorcycle parts from suppliers across the pond), but I guess that may go out the window when looking for more options/variety.

Any and all help is much appreciated.

 

[COMike93yj]

Hiya Moto!

Wow you DID take the plunge on the TX! Good on you!

I am in a different situation though...my wife wouldn't stand for it! And I can say I do not blame her....I tend to get into hobbies and then they go by the wayside. "Hi Honey...I want to play piano....." purchased a Yamaha full keyboard and my desires vanished within a month O)

As far as RC stuff goes, I have been doing it on and off since the 70's with a line flyer. I did some sailplane work back in the late 80's and misc RC planes throughout the 90's. In 2005ish I got smitten with the heli stuff but my work took center stage and all that stuff ($500 bucks worth) was relegated to a moving box! I dusted all of it off a few weeks ago and have been practicing my heli's on the sim and doing RADDs flight school for a couple of weeks.

THEN...the epiphany! I started watching quads, hexas, octos....and let me tell you that is right up my alley! I will still build a heli someday but the quad area is where my passion lies because eventually I want to do some AP/AV fun when in the mountains where I live.

You mentioned "Ecalc".....is that a program you found to calculate the flight time?

I have a feeling that you and I will be following a similar path and I am learning a ton from your build and the folks on Bart's group build....if you don't mind I'd love to hang on for the ride!

Mike

 

[Motopreserve]

Mike,

I am not sure that I am the right hobbyist to hang onto Seriously though, I appreciate that we can probably learn a ton of this stuff together, since it seems we are in a similar boat (or copter as it were!).

I know the TX purchase was a bit crazy, but I'm not one for choosing certain components lightly - and for sure the TX was the place to start for me. I envisioned myself building (soon!!!) a good quad, steady and ready for some fun, and then flying it directly into a tree because I skimped on the TX. I know that many of the other options were also great - but this one seemed like a good fit for what I'd eventually like to accomplish (with plenty of room to grow), and was only slightly more than I had originally planned on spending. It seems that there are some components that can be had inexpensively, so I can still be thrifty (and hopefully smart too) with the build.

What I would ultimately like to do is: photo/video from an elevated position. I have a passion for photography and video (have been at it for quite some time, mostly centered around motorcycles), and would like to add another tool to the arsenal. So I am NOT someone into being a speed demon in the air. I find it fun to watch, but I personally just need simple and steady, and hope to accomplish that with the help of folks here.

The terrain here in my new home of central Vermont is incredibly beautiful (as is Colorado!), and the barren back roads allow for some great motorcycling. If I could lift off, steady it up, and get some great shots of the scenery, and the motorcycles passing through it, I would be a happy camper.

The ecalc is an online gem. You plug in all the info, and it lets you know how you messed up Actually, figuring that thing out has been harder than anything else! But it's certainly helpful. THIS LINK gets you started down a very deep rabbit hole...

I've gotten the "hover" flight time (they break into many, MANY variables) up to about 13 minutes. But then there is mention of mixed flight time of only about 5 minutes. My brain hurts!

 

[COMike93yj]

Hell we will work through this together then :frog: !!!

I totally comprehend the TX purchase! My upgrade on TX routes was from an old Eflite Blade CPPRO FM TX that came with my Blade CPPRO heli....so moving up to the Spektrum DX8 with the telemetry module for $200 was an easy sell to me (and my wife)!

100% agreed on the "not a speed demon in the air" comment! I watch all the cool stunts and aerobatics folks do with helis and quads but I too am looking for a stable platform that I can fly and enjoy. Perhaps in the future I will try some "mild" aerobatics but keeping/maintaining a stable platform is a must for me.

Where did you move from? I have a really close friend that grew up in Chester VT and he lives in VT now that he is retired from the USAF. I know VT very well! I grew up just near the border of NH/MA. I know the area is EXTREMELY beautiful where you are at....the autumn foliage is incredible!

Have you figured out how much range your TX has? I am still trying to figure out how some of these folks (many flying FPV) can manage to fly their craft more than a mile away from their base and still do what they need to do.

If you haven't looked into it, you might want to check out the Mobius Actioncam. I use it as a dashcam for my vehicles and is REALLY nice for the price and quality. Not pro quality but does very well and weighs only 39 grams! Here is a link to the discussion on RCgroups........ http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1904559&highlight=mobius

The Mobius will be my first cam on my first Quad.....light weight and if my piloting abilities (or lack thereof) cause me to hit terra firma, then I am not worried about a couple hundred dollars being pissed down the drain.

I do, however, want to get something that I can have some control over (learning about gimbals, etc) so something the size of a GoPro would be about the max I would get to in the next year or so. This is why I am attempting to figure out a good all around platform that I can learn the basics of flying on and then progress/upgrade to something that can utilize the larger size of a GoPro.

Have you thought of researching the FPV aspects of the multirotor build you are doing? I would think...again just speaking out loud....that having an FPV setup would be incredible if you were flying in areas you could not see your craft (trees, hills, etc). Some of the videos I have seen make me think that this would be just about the only way to pull off some shots.

For me, in the Mts (10K - 14K' MSL) there would be times that I may lose line of sight briefly, especially when I get into some canyons. My perspective/base would be elevated, like I think you mentioned, so that would eliminate a great deal of LOS issues but if for some reason the craft lost TX signals having a failsafe would be nice to have.

Thoughts????

Mike

 

[Motopreserve]

I haven't seen that camera before - definitely will check it out. I already own a few GoPros, so that was already in the cards. You should see me riding with these things strapped all over me and the bike - I look like a goof! But the footage is great... unless I partake in my first serious off-road riding in 20 years, and get in WAY over my head, and end up with a bunch of footage of me crashing and burning (still fun though!). Experiences like that make filming trees from OVERHEAD instead of me hitting them WITH my head much more appealing

I am in Barre, VT (moto shop is in Montpelier). Moved here from Brooklyn. Big change of pace - but I'm embracing it - and certainly having the room to fly and ride is a huge part of that. I spent too much time in Colorado this summer - touring with a band. I do live sound and tour manage (recording engineer by trade) - most of the driving too. We did 2500 miles in 5 days criss-crossing the state to various festivals and shows, including going over Independence Pass in a Sprinter van because we HAD to, on 3 hours sleep . Not the best way to enjoy the beauty, but insanely beautiful it is!

I have only briefly looked into the FPV. I already know that I will begin this adventure by always being able to see the damn thing, but the possibilities FPV offer are amazing. I will certainly go that route once I gain experience and confidence. I think the thickness of woods/foliage in this neck of the woods lends itself to that technology. But of course, more money...

I think the TX should have sufficient range for what I need to start. It's the starting that is getting to me right now Chomping at the bit...

 

[COMike93yj]

Moto,

It is a nice little gem for very little price ..... as always PRICE is a consideration in any endeavor! I am still listening to my wife about her "lottery winnings" and just what we would do with them if we ever did win that damn thing...LOL!

I know Barre and Montpelier well.....we used to vacation in VT/NH/ME a ton and my folks retired off the coast of Maine 20+ years ago. I simply love NE!

Seeing the craft is a must for me as well but, to be honest, I would love to be able to take it places that I cannot see or go. That, as you mentioned, is a long way away for me at this point. Confidence/experience in the equipment and the Pilot is a must. Learning to fly the craft in a BASIC sense w/o the aid of GPS/Stability programs is IMO critical. I have flown for over 20+ years and instructed for many them. I hate seeing folks relying on the "box" accomplish things but when a system fails (as they do) some people lose SA and get flustered.....then it is "MY PLANE" time....:nevreness:. The same thing goes for RC stuff....I am a firm believer in being able to have total control of a device (airplane, RC craft, multi, RC Heli) without the aid of various systems to make it "easier". Not that the systems are bad but when the crap hits the fan, you BETTER know how to recover.

If you ever get out here to Colorado...look me up! I have a 93 Jeep Wrangler that I have used for off-roading over many years. She is my baby and I take pride in doing all the work on her myself....a good way to relax for me!