Licenses to shoot commercial AP and AV in the US?

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SeanArenas

Member
I have searched online for an answer to this and have come to the conclusion that no one really knows. A lot of people guess, or say they heard somewhere, or say they read somewhere. Others say to read the FAA Airman's Guide and figure it out for myself.

I talked to Tony from RC-Drones today and he says there are no laws against it currently, but it may change in 2-4 years that you will need a certification to record/sell AP and AV.

Anyone have any hard knowledge on this?
 

kloner

kloner

Aerial DP
right now the FAA has closed airspace to uas/uav for hire. while folks are still doing it, there doing so "unlawfully" not because theres a law against it, but the fact theres no laws making it legal. it's a word of mouth hush hush industry right now. and most likely will be for a while longer.
 

S

SeanArenas

Member
Thanks for the reply, Kloner.

This means if someone were looking to get in to the business of AP/AV, they would have to do it without advertising their business, because that might attract the attention of the FAA?

What about if you are recording video and submitting it to news sites hoping to sell exclusive rights?
 

R

RTRyder

Merlin of Multirotors
You can do pretty much anything you want as long as it's a "hobby", the minute you take any amount of cash, even a penny, then it's commercial and not allowed, so says the FAA. The reality is there have been a lot of cease and desist letters sent out by the FAA to people that have been advertising their R/C APV business but no one has actually been taken to court in the 5 plus years since they decided commercial APV was not allowed.

The FAA has been instructed by the government to get off their behinds and get on with producing a set of regulations governing commercial UAS in the USA and there has been a deadline set for that to happen. Whether it will or not remains to be seen, we're going 6 years or so hearing the same old thing and not much has happened yet, stay tuned...

Ken
 

kloner

kloner

Aerial DP
people openly tell there story to print, video, etc and aren't troubled, yet. but theres like a 4 years, $200,000 penalty if prosicuted
 

G

ghaynes

Member
And no end in sight.

[h=1]FAA Delays UAV Testing Site Selection 'Indefinitely'[/h][h=2]Huerta Cites Safety, Privacy Concerns In Letter To UAV Caucus[/h]The FAA has again delayed the site selection for flight testing of UAVs that would eventually lead to their integration into the NAS. Acting Administrator Michael Huerta sent a letter last week to the Congressional UAV Caucus indicating that there were still safety and privacy issues to be resolved.
​
The deadline for the FAA to select the six sites intended for flight testing was December, but in the letter, which was addressed to caucus chairman Rep. Howard McKeon (R-CA) Huerta said that establishment of the sites has been "suspended" with no new deadline set.
The advocacy group UAS Vision reports on their website that, in the letter, Huetra said that "Our target was to have six test sites by the end of 2012. However, increasing the use of UAS in our airspace also raises privacy issues, and these issues will need to be addressed as unmanned aircraft are safely integrated."
"The FAA will complete its statutory obligations to integrate UAS into the national airspace as quickly and efficiently as possible," the letter continues. "However, we must fulfill those obligations in a thoughtful, prudent manner that ensures safety, addresses privacy issues, and promotes economic growth."
Caucus member Rep. Steve Austria (R-OH), who represents a district in which one of the sites might be located, called the delay "unacceptable." He told the Dayton Daily News that “The reasons they’re giving us are the reasons they gave us four years ago.”
 


Jim in Massachusetts

Jim in Massachusetts

Member
I find this thread interesting but confusing. I'm wondering how something can be illegal if there is no law making it so, as quoted above. I see here and have heard quotes from people about specific punishment for using multi rotors to earn money. Where does this info come from?

An industry like this poses certain safety risks. It makes sense that some rules, regulations or laws need to be put in place, in the interest of safety.

I would expect that the FAA would have something published, somewhere, which confirms doing RC aerial photography or video for hire is not lawful. Seems there are lots of presumptions. I'm not trying to say others are wrong... I'd just like to see info about the subject directly from the FAA.

I've done internet searches and searched the FAA Web site but was unsuccessful.

So am I to assume that I cannot lawfully sell prints of the aerial photos I've made?

To sum up, I mean no disrespect to others in this thread...but where do we find "official" info on the subject?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Follow up: After some more searching at the FAA site, I found this page which has contact info the [h=1]AVS Unmanned Aircraft Program Office (UAPO)[/h]
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/afs/afs400/afs407/
 
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R

RTRyder

Merlin of Multirotors
Jim in Massachusetts said:
I find this thread interesting but confusing. I'm wondering how something can be illegal if there is no law making it so, as quoted above. I see here and have heard quotes from people about specific punishment for using multi rotors to earn money. Where does this info come from?

An industry like this poses certain safety risks. It makes sense that some rules, regulations or laws need to be put in place, in the interest of safety.

I would expect that the FAA would have something published, somewhere, which confirms doing RC aerial photography or video for hire is not lawful. Seems there are lots of presumptions. I'm not trying to say others are wrong... I'd just like to see info about the subject directly from the FAA.

I've done internet searches and searched the FAA Web site but was unsuccessful.

So am I to assume that I cannot lawfully sell prints of the aerial photos I've made?

To sum up, I mean no disrespect to others in this thread...but where do we find "official" info on the subject?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Follow up: After some more searching at the FAA site, I found this page which has contact info the AVS Unmanned Aircraft Program Office (UAPO)


http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/afs/afs400/afs407/
Click to expand...

Start here... http://02b954f.netsolhost.com/images/frnotice_uas.pdf specifically see the policy statement that starts at the bottom of page 5 and also see http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/uas/uas_faq/#Qn7

Related info...
http://02b954f.netsolhost.com/images/8130.34a.pdf

I have more links but they're on my laptop at home, I'm many hundreds of miles away in Austin Texas at the moment...

Ken
 
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S

SeanArenas

Member
There's a bit of reading in some of those links.

One of them basically says that there is no UAV operation allowed in the US. Maybe I am interpreting it wrong.

Is there no "user friendly" verbage to describe what we can and cannot do, legally, with our craft?

I am sorry if the previously mentioned links are eminently readable to most of you, but not me.
 

R

RTRyder

Merlin of Multirotors
Actually that's pretty clear for official FAA/government documentation, some of the other things I have links to are far worse. The FAQ link spells it out fairly well, you can fly for hobby use under 400 feet altitude, line of sight. Anything else falls under research and development or public agency such as police or search and rescue team use and then only by applying for and receiving a COA or certificate of authorization which is only issued to either of those two categories of organizations.

Commercial for pay use is not permitted and hasn't been since 2007. The FAA states that you would need an experimental aircraft certification for your Multi/heli but those are not issued for commercial use and there has never benn a process defined for someone to be able yo get one anyway. Bottom line is commercial use is not permitted and will not be until the FAA develops the regulations and them implements them and when that will happen is anyones guess.

Ken
 


janoots2

janoots2

Member
Here is a post I wrote a few months back on another forum regarding these policies and actual current regulation...I'll be interested in the comments with a different audience:

"Correct me if I'm wrong in my following thinking, but this simply states that rc aircraft used for rec or hobby purposes are exempt from any regulation. However, there IS no regulation yet?

The only actual regulations we have to go off of is a clear definition of class g airpace which we are allowed to fly in, a definition of "commercial aircraft" which encompasses carriage of persons or property, which we do neither...and AC 91-57 which mentions only broad safety regulations for model aircraft that we all must follow.

The only thing going against these actual definitions and regulations is this policy:
www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/uas/reg/media/frnotice_uas.pdf

And a policy with "opportunity for feedback" is neither a law nor regulation.

Therefore, both sides of the legal/illegal argument are neither correct or incorrect because what we do is STILL defined as unregulated.

The confusion exists since we don't fall into either category as currently defined by the regulations. So, since we are unregulated, does that make us illegal?"
 
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Giovanni59

Giovanni59

Member
I'm a professional photographer who has done AP from a helium filled blimp. I'm practicing with a Flamewheel 550 and I am about to buy an octo. However I think I better do some more research before I invest in a system.
I hope more contribute to this thread.
 

T

tombrown1

Member
There are already plenty of threads to get you started and finished. The trick is finding them. This site and rcgroups are essentials. Keep flying the f550 as much as possible and block off a few dozen hours for forum reading.

Best,

Tom
 


J

jrlederer

Member
This has been discussed to death with no real satisfying ultimate answer, but the bottom line, as I see it, is that without being able to get legitimate insurance for the instance where someone or property gets damaged seriously and/or injured as a result of the many possible failures and/or pilot errors, etc. it is really one of those situations that, like gambling in Vegas casinos, can be very fun and profitable when things go well, but where there exists the inevitable likelihood that when things go awry, they get really ****ty. All the jobs one might ever get paid for in a lifetime's worth of work can easily ALL be offset by one personal injury lawsuit and the associated stress and hassle involved.

Anyway, for what it's worth I cannot claim to be an angel with regard to taking risks and gambling. Not much is more exhilarating than being dealt the dreaded hand of a hard 16 while the dealer shows a facecard, only to hit and receive the 5 that makes the hand a winner! Makes my blood boil! Just like blackjack, when it's good it's good, but there's always the ever-present risk of ruin that keeps you on your toes.

I hope this makes sense to someone out there! Good luck and try to not become a statistic! Happy happy happy new year to all and if you are planning on having a go at the casinos, adhere to basic strategy and do your best to discretely keep an accurate count and, for the love of God, BEAT THE DEALER (and be smart enough to know whn it's time to take the money and run!) Wish me luck!
 

jforkner

jforkner

Member
jrlederer said:
This has been discussed to death with no real satisfying ultimate answer...
Click to expand...

Disagree. The answer is out there; people just don't like it. Everyone wants to find a loophole or some interpretation that will allow them to market their aerial pictures or video. The rules are the rules, and discussing them to death won't change them. It's not complicated at all; you just have to decide if you'll get caught doing it without the required approvals.

"What you have to ask yourself is, do I feel lucky. Well do ya' punk?"


Jack
 

R

R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
All that being said, there are are lots of people doing this "professionally", and even insurance companies selling insurance for it. Many people are taking the view that, while the FAA does not allow it, as long as it isn't *criminial*, then it is "legal".
 

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