CineStar camera gimbal

[ovdt]

I'm also curious about 360 upgrade parts if they will fit the current gimbal.

 

[Tabb Firchau]

Those videos were so helpful, I really liked how you mounted the RED on there and how well the parts are designed. You mentioned in the end that you couldn't find any other solution for taller cameras; even the AV320?

Also for the 360 gimbal you are working on; will it be an addon upgrade or a new separate product?

I have never tried the AV320, not sure if the EPIC would fit or not?? There will be an upgrade package for the existing gimbal, as well as a separate 360 offering

Glad the videos were helpful!

Tabb

 

[plingboot]

There's one major issue with the help videos… they make me want a CS8 and gimbal.

Will there be some kind of upgrade package to fix this? :tennis:

 

[Hillhopper]

Tabb, great behind the scenes on flights with Vincent. Were looking to fly the C300 with a cinestar rig. Can you recommend a setup you used CS6 or 8 and motors, lipo etc. I assumed you used CS Gimbeal. Stan

 

[SYNDK8]

I was under the impression that he used a helicopter and not a cinestar rig for work with Vincent, I could be wrong.

 

[Hillhopper]

Check out the tribute piece here http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/ they used both. Stan

 

[Tabb Firchau]

Hey Stan, We did fly the C300 on the CineStar 8 but not for the shots shown in the video. That was with the big chopper. Mainly we did not use the CS8 as I did not have time to prep the craft / gimbal for such a big camera whereas the helicopter gimbal is HUGE so it just dropped right in. I literally had like 1 hour with the camera before it was time to shoot so I went with the easier route which was the big helicopter.

Yes we used the CS gimbal and QC3328 motors. The C300 is big camera when it comers to form factor. The image was quite pleasing but the lack of 1080/60p is a big letdown for me.

Best,

Tabb

 

[Hillhopper]

Hey Tabb, good to hear. Will the C300 fit the mount without major mods?
Have you or anyone you know used the cineStar Gimbal with the DJI. IMU. or would it be better served by the new Picloc?
The DJI team are claiming some rock solid regardless of flight conditions results with there soon to be released gimbal for smaller cameras and will likely have a independent IMU to achieve such stability.
look forward to your 360 mod kit.

Stan

 

[anaka]

Hi Tabb,
I really like this new gimbal, especially the ability to adapt to a wide range of cameras, I appreciate a lot your videotutorials, I'm planning to buy one but have to ask something in particular that could interest also all the other potential users

the system use 10turn potentiometers, basing on my personal experience with AV130 droidworx gimbal, this is not a good choice becouse they create too much delay in the stabilization so pratically don't really stabilize the shooting

on this page http://www.kopterworx.com/assembly there is also a video that clearly shows the issue i'm talking about, kopterworks sells a 95€ upgrade for AV200 that fix this problem,so the issue is not tipical in AV130 only but also in AV200, it's from the multiturn potentiometers, they produce more problems than quality, one more aspect that produces not so good results is the high gearing

after months of tests and moneys spent I fonud a good solution changing drastically the stabilization system

so my question is: the Cinestar Gimbal is based on the same technology, do it has also the same problem?

 

[Tabb Firchau]

Hi Stan, I think the C300 could be made to fit without any drastic mods. I really need to get my hands on one for longer then 15 minutes though to say for sure, as it is a pretty tall camera. From what I have seen the DJI gimbal stab is really not much better then the MK outputs. I am unsure what the new picloc will perform like as I have not tested it.

Anaka, Our system uses single turn pots that are coupled directly to the tilt and roll axis. The multi turn potentiometers do seem a bit soft around their center point, the single turn pots will offer quicker moves off of the center point.

The CineStar Gimbal is based on the same technology in that it uses hobby servos with external pots. The execution is slightly different but the concept similar. There is only so much stabilization that these components can do and we are approaching the limits of their potential in my opinion.

Tabb

 

[RTRyder]

Hi Stan, I think the C300 could be made to fit without any drastic mods. I really need to get my hands on one for longer then 15 minutes though to say for sure, as it is a pretty tall camera. From what I have seen the DJI gimbal stab is really not much better then the MK outputs. I am unsure what the new picloc will perform like as I have not tested it.

Anaka, Our system uses single turn pots that are coupled directly to the tilt and roll axis. The multi turn potentiometers do seem a bit soft around their center point, the single turn pots will offer quicker moves off of the center point.

The CineStar Gimbal is based on the same technology in that it uses hobby servos with external pots. The execution is slightly different but the concept similar. There is only so much stabilization that these components can do and we are approaching the limits of their potential in my opinion.

Tabb

Hi Tabb,

Based on having used the exact same AV 130 with both Mk and DJI, I'd have to say the DJI has the better gimbal stabilization. Granted the CS6 is a bit bigger than my Droidworx AD6 with MK electronics but the AV130 does a much better job of keeping a level horizon under the CS than it does on the AD6, not sure how much the size has to do with it vs. the electronics, maybe it's a combination of both. Of course this is strictly my impression and based on a sample of one so take it for for what it's worth

Still trying for the best all around settings with the WKM and CS6 though I have found a pretty good setup if I just want to go out and record some video in not so windy conditions. It's the windy days that are making it tricky to find a good setup, I think that's one area the Mk has a clear advantage at the moment. If I can catch a day of good weather this weekend I'll go out and get some more video with the CS6, been windy lately and starting to get COLD here, the opportunites to get out and fly in good weather are few this time of year.

Ken

 

[anaka]

Anaka, Our system uses single turn pots that are coupled directly to the tilt and roll axis. The multi turn potentiometers do seem a bit soft around their center point, the single turn pots will offer quicker moves off of the center point.

The CineStar Gimbal is based on the same technology in that it uses hobby servos with external pots. The execution is slightly different but the concept similar. There is only so much stabilization that these components can do and we are approaching the limits of their potential in my opinion.

Tabb

yes Tabb I see your point,
i also fixed my AV130 in the first moment implementing single turn 300degrees pots from robotics applications and they really do the difference but had to change the aimentation from 5V to 6V to get a real stable result..btw at the end I had one more try to increase the stability implementing direct drive servos, the new digital coreless high speed and resolution from Hitech and got a bit more stability but also more weight...ofcourse I had to drasticly change the mecanics

the only limit I can't still overpass is the small roll angle degrees of the AV130..for fix this I have to rebuild it totally from scratch and prefer to buy a new one..probably the cinestar one

do you have videos shooted with it? perhaps with the GH2?

do you think that a good rigidity of the central frame can have a important role in the reduction of oscilations in flight? at the moment I stil have the MK stock one with custom arms for engines

 

[seattle_helo]

Tabb, any update on the 360°? Too early for a sneak peek?

nick

 

[Tabb Firchau]

Ken, That is great news the gimbal stab seems better! I was just going off videos I have seen. I should have my WKM in the air soon so I can then contribute more then just conjecture!

Do you think it is the prop size of the length of the arms that upset the DJI most?

 

[Tabb Firchau]

Yes, I have been through the same process (multi turn pot to single turn etc) which led to the CineStar gimbal being designed as it is with single turn pots and direct coupling. It can be frustrating to try and get perfect stability.

I also think you are correct, rigidity of the main frame is critical for smooth flight. Even with the camera mount turned off I get really nice smooth footage right now. Any flex in the arms etc will certainly disturb the footage.

Nick, 360 is coming soon, top priority at the moment. Just had some problems with key suppliers.

Best

Tabb

 

[anaka]

i've seen your morning fog video...simply impressive!!
how much did you worked on PID settings?

 

[Tabb Firchau]

Hi, my only change in MK tools from default was to change PID to
P 100
I 120
D 25

Other then that totally stock configuration

Best,

Tabb

 

[anaka]

ok that makes me understand that i have to work in another direction, probably do a better frame...is the only part still "stock"

thanks a lot for you tips Tabb, hope to have soon good and stable videos to post

 

[RTRyder]

Ken, That is great news the gimbal stab seems better! I was just going off videos I have seen. I should have my WKM in the air soon so I can then contribute more then just conjecture!

Do you think it is the prop size of the length of the arms that upset the DJI most?

I'd have to say both. The DJI is very sensitive to prop size on large multirotors, much more than on smaller ones which don't seem to be as fussy about it. The thing that causes the biggest problem with the WKM on any large frame is too much prop, unlike with MK where you can use a 13 or 14 inch prop on the CS frame, the WKM will prove to be very wobbly unless there is sufficient weight to really load the props. I've been running around the 9 pound mark takeoff weight and the best performance/stability so far at that weight has been with Graupner 11 x 5 props and rather high basic gains, typically around 300%, with the ATTI gains varying between 50 to 80% depending on the amount of wind. As wind speed increases the ATTI gains need to decrease to smooth the response to the wind.

My quad is roughly 550mm motor to motor which is close to 300mm smaller than the CS6 and it's fine with 10 x 5 Graupners at half the weight, so for whatever reason the WKM is a lot more sensitive to the amount of lift being generated on a larger/heavier frame than on a smaller one.

I don't know if you've seen this video, it is so far the best I've been able to achieve with the CS 6 and WKM. For this one I used the Graupner 11 x 5 props, I'm currently testing the 12 x 6 APC thin electrics and they're proving to not be as smooth or stable, more testing needs to be done though...

Ken

 

[Macsgrafs]

Ken, what size motors are you running & what does the manufacturer recomend as regards prop size? I ask because I use apce12x6 props, which are recomended size for my motors, but I wanted to know if you found bigger better or smaller better?

Ross