Camera Mount recommedations

Macsgrafs

Active Member
I have a Panasonic SD9, but the OIS is useless for our aerial use, the BBC told me that gopro HD was better for high vibration use.
I tried for 2 1/2 years to stop the vibrations using the SD9, but to no avail...switched to gopro & problem gone. Remember that the panasonic uses 3CCD & they really hate vibration & fast pans!

Ross
 

DucktileMedia

Drone Enthusiast
If one didn't care about having a gimbal for the purpose of keeping the camera level......are there any other tried and true ways to isolate vibrations with a fixed mount? I am getting erratic vibrations on my unit. The first few shots were ok but then they got worse. Is a slab of silicone material all it takes? Help.
 

jes1111

Active Member
Preventing the vibration occurring in the first place is obviously the first approach, by motor and prop balancing. Then you'll probably need two "levels" of isolation (between the vibration source(s) and the camera to be certain of a "zero" result. Vibration can be attenuated (reduced) but rarely down to zero in one go. The range of frequencies you're fighting is (I believe, Denny will know more) in the range of 50-400Hz, so you're going to need something very soft to block those low frequencies. Look for materials with a "natural frequency" of 25Hz or less, the lower the better. Very soft rubbers and urethanes, silicone gel, etc. I don't know where you are but this is a good source in UK - www.gelmec.co.uk

"Slab" is not necessarily the best - four posts/blocks/points spread as wide apart as possible will probably do a better job than a single large slab.Trying to isolate a heavy mass is easier than a light one, so consider binding the batteries directly to the camera mount.
 

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ovdt

Member
Great info guys!

I decided to built my own camera mount system. But until then, I bought a MD2 camera mount for taking photos.
 

DennyR

Active Member
It is possible to mount those Panny's without vibration issues. you have to start with a whole new approach as you need to create a high mass beam to carry the camera mount. They are very sensitive to vibration but then any high sensitivity imu will be.
 

DennyR

Active Member
Jeremy
On the subject of mechanical gyros I did a lot of research. I was using very large kenlab KS-12's on my full size mounts but they still suffered from many problems. The way I got results was to use electronic inner axis base plates that only moved 3 degrees. Mechanical gyros are a non starter for model use. Far too heavy. You have to use two wheels and there is a critical angle that cancels the precession. I did make an imu that used two small tungsten flywheels that reacted on magnetic encoders for the servos. worked quite well but again too heavy and too big.
 

DucktileMedia

Drone Enthusiast
DennyR, don't tell me this! I have been putting some real efforts into mechanical gyros for my camera mount. The idea of using a hard drive is a good one but not realistic for anything other than a gopro. I ordered a motor and esc specific for turning a machined aluminum disc. Let me state too that , like most here, I don't want dead level video/images. I want a flying "feel" without having to worry that my electronics are tuned right. I realize the weight is going to end up being more for the gyro but I am ok putting money into a larger craft to make it work.

I hate that we are sheep to PS1 and Photo higher. We are led to believe that by spending $1000+ on a mount that we will have smooth video. but there is a reason only a few people can make it work....they don't work as well as they claim or people would not be posting on this forum other than posting successful videos. Dont mean to sound negative but i dont think a few cut out plates of carbon and a cheap-o servo are worth the dough. I realize design is part of the cost but that implies your product works without 6 months of tuning. That's why I went the mechanical route because it just appeals to me to have something that works no matter if it is analog or digital or aluminum or carbon or the settings on the FC are dialed in correctly.

My dream mount would be a single hanging point under the Multi. It would have a simple mount with a mechanical gyro dead beneath it. Perhaps the addition of some light weight shock absorbers. In theory having one adjacent gyro should isolate most movement less vertical vibrations. Are the people who can make this work just messing with us and keeping all the success stories a secret? I guess i can't blame them.
 




RTRyder

Merlin of Multirotors
This is a clip from video I recorded yesterday, done with all off the shelf hardware and no special "tweaks" to any of it. I'm not making any attempt to fly smoothly here, just flying around more for practice and to see just how much I can get away with and still get useable video. Here's the direct link if the embedded version doesn't play back smoothly best watched in 720P ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acr5-kLlfTo



Ken
 
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CopterCam

Member
Ken,

Very nice bit of work there with that mount, you have it pretty much dialed.............. now what is the secret ?

Sid
 

RTRyder

Merlin of Multirotors
Ken,

Very nice bit of work there with that mount, you have it pretty much dialed.............. now what is the secret ?

Sid

The secret is two things, first and most importantly, proper setup, and second, proper power source, that's it!

Here's what I was flying when I recorded the video...

IMG_1746a.jpg


The camera mount is brand new Photohigher AV130 from the latest production run, they really do have the bugs worked out of it and it performs flawlessly. I have done nothing more than install it on the AD-6 heavy lifter and go through the setup procedure in MK tool.

Power is supplied to the two servos by a Castle Creations BEC Pro mounted to the top of the camera mount between the gear rails supplying 6 volts to each servo direct from the main battery.

The camera itself is a GoPro HD with Sunex lens hard mounted to the platform of the AV130 using a tripod foot on the GoPro protective case.

Most importantly the setup was done correctly in MKtool and it's not difficult, anyone that can change settings in MKtool can do the proper setup. It takes a bit of time to do it right but the end result is worth it, here's the procedure I use from a post I previously made elsewhere. I was being specific about my older AV 130 here but the basic procedures apply to any two axis camera mount...

I do the initial centering adjustments with the roll cradle and tilt servo loosened so the servos won't drive the platform in either axis then use a servo tester to send a center point signal to the servo and manually center the travel of the pots as close as possible. The roll pot on an AV130 is a 10 turn pot so go to one end of travel and reverse it by 5 to 6 turns and you should be very close to center, make sure to do that first with no power applied to the servo. You can find absolute center once power is applied to the servo by moving the pot in each direction until the servo stops moving, you are now at center travel of the pot and also of the roll servo. Next set the mechanical center for the platform as close as possible by leveling the camera platform in the mount frame and tightening the cradle rollers so the rack gear is properly meshed with the pot and servo gears making sure to not move either the pot gear or cradle in the process. After that tighten the tilt servo belt tension after setting the trim pot centering, don't worry about getting either axis perfect just get as close as you can for the moment (You could also just plug the servo into a port on a normal RX with that channel centered in the TX adjustments if you don't have a servo tester handy).

Now after connecting up the servos and powering the MK, use the servo control setting in the camera tab of MKtool to fine tune the center of the roll axis making sure the MK is level first. The tilt I have on a slider on the TX which I adjust using endpoints and subtrim if necessary. Doing this fixed the power up centering problem on the AV130 which I should add I have externally powered by a CC BEC with only the signal wire attached to the F/C, it does not move until after I initialize the gyro and it then makes whatever adjustment it needs to center itself. When I had an AverticalView mount on the AD-6 I used the servo tester to center the servos first, set mechanical center of the camera platform, then fine tune with MKtool setting for roll and TX adjustment for tilt, neither mount moved at all until the gyros initialize.

While still connected to MKtool you must properly set the compensation setting as well. Once you have established center on both axis, prop up the landing gear on one side of the MK within the physical travel limits of the camera platform roll axis, now check the leveling. If the platform is not level adjust the servo roll compensation setting in the camera tab until it is, this is what the compensation setting is for, not to set the speed at which the servos move. Once you have it level, go back and check level at center (it shouldn't change) and then prop up the opposite side at the same height as the other side was and check to make sure the platform is level there also, again it shouldn't be off unless there is a mechanical problem with the mount. In the case of some mounts with direct linkage movements like the Hisight II you may have to play around with the linkage adjustment to get linear movement across the range of travel before the compensation setting will work correctly. Now you can repeat the process for the tilt axis using the same method. When you're done the platform should remain level at all times within its travel limits as you move the MK around in different axis, you WILL see the difference in recorded video if you have not done this adjustment.

I know all this sounds like a lot of work but I think if you take the time to do a proper setup you'll find the video will look a lot more stable with proper centering and the compensation working correctly.

Ken
 

BorisS

Drone Enthusiast
Hi Ken,

I have the same experienced with the Av 200 and a GOPRO on it. It becomes troublesome though when more weight than a Gopro has to be dealt with from the AV 200. If you ever come around mounting a 1KG setup Cam + lens would be cool if you post your results.

Boris
 


CopterCam

Member
Ken,

Many thanks for your very informative reply and willingness to share your knowledge and results. Looking forward to seeing the fruits of your labour.............

Sid

The secret is two things, first and most importantly, proper setup, and second, proper power source, that's it!

Here's what I was flying when I recorded the video...

IMG_1746a.jpg


The camera mount is brand new Photohigher AV130 from the latest production run, they really do have the bugs worked out of it and it performs flawlessly. I have done nothing more than install it on the AD-6 heavy lifter and go through the setup procedure in MK tool.

Power is supplied to the two servos by a Castle Creations BEC Pro mounted to the top of the camera mount between the gear rails supplying 6 volts to each servo direct from the main battery.

The camera itself is a GoPro HD with Sunex lens hard mounted to the platform of the AV130 using a tripod foot on the GoPro protective case.

Most importantly the setup was done correctly in MKtool and it's not difficult, anyone that can change settings in MKtool can do the proper setup. It takes a bit of time to do it right but the end result is worth it, here's the procedure I use from a post I previously made elsewhere. I was being specific about my older AV 130 here but the basic procedures apply to any two axis camera mount...

I do the initial centering adjustments with the roll cradle and tilt servo loosened so the servos won't drive the platform in either axis then use a servo tester to send a center point signal to the servo and manually center the travel of the pots as close as possible. The roll pot on an AV130 is a 10 turn pot so go to one end of travel and reverse it by 5 to 6 turns and you should be very close to center, make sure to do that first with no power applied to the servo. You can find absolute center once power is applied to the servo by moving the pot in each direction until the servo stops moving, you are now at center travel of the pot and also of the roll servo. Next set the mechanical center for the platform as close as possible by leveling the camera platform in the mount frame and tightening the cradle rollers so the rack gear is properly meshed with the pot and servo gears making sure to not move either the pot gear or cradle in the process. After that tighten the tilt servo belt tension after setting the trim pot centering, don't worry about getting either axis perfect just get as close as you can for the moment (You could also just plug the servo into a port on a normal RX with that channel centered in the TX adjustments if you don't have a servo tester handy).

Now after connecting up the servos and powering the MK, use the servo control setting in the camera tab of MKtool to fine tune the center of the roll axis making sure the MK is level first. The tilt I have on a slider on the TX which I adjust using endpoints and subtrim if necessary. Doing this fixed the power up centering problem on the AV130 which I should add I have externally powered by a CC BEC with only the signal wire attached to the F/C, it does not move until after I initialize the gyro and it then makes whatever adjustment it needs to center itself. When I had an AverticalView mount on the AD-6 I used the servo tester to center the servos first, set mechanical center of the camera platform, then fine tune with MKtool setting for roll and TX adjustment for tilt, neither mount moved at all until the gyros initialize.

While still connected to MKtool you must properly set the compensation setting as well. Once you have established center on both axis, prop up the landing gear on one side of the MK within the physical travel limits of the camera platform roll axis, now check the leveling. If the platform is not level adjust the servo roll compensation setting in the camera tab until it is, this is what the compensation setting is for, not to set the speed at which the servos move. Once you have it level, go back and check level at center (it shouldn't change) and then prop up the opposite side at the same height as the other side was and check to make sure the platform is level there also, again it shouldn't be off unless there is a mechanical problem with the mount. In the case of some mounts with direct linkage movements like the Hisight II you may have to play around with the linkage adjustment to get linear movement across the range of travel before the compensation setting will work correctly. Now you can repeat the process for the tilt axis using the same method. When you're done the platform should remain level at all times within its travel limits as you move the MK around in different axis, you WILL see the difference in recorded video if you have not done this adjustment.

I know all this sounds like a lot of work but I think if you take the time to do a proper setup you'll find the video will look a lot more stable with proper centering and the compensation working correctly.

Ken
 

DennyR

Active Member
Looking good Ken BTW everything shuts down here this week so your stuff will be in the post on Monday
 

DennyR

Active Member
windyhorn
One flywheel alone will not work. As it encounters a movement, other than around the rotation of the shaft, you will get a force at right angles to that movement only. It will topple immediately. It can be done with two flywheels but it is very complicated and it has to be too heavy. Even then as with commercially available stuff from Kenlabs it will drift about and only absorb the big bumps. These things typically run in low friction inert gas and turn at 25,000 rpm. Kenlabs KS-2 for example.
 
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