Camera gimbal stabilisation system

[jes1111]

I was trying to convince my Mrs last night that we cant live without this gimbal control board, she eventually agreed. I must admit I like the camera lock, thats very impressive...but does it lock onto a target or just a direction???

Ross

Looks like its driven by the mag - so it will just hold a particular compass heading.

Friends in Ohio are going for this with a Copterworks heli. It is not actually available yet. We will know more once the first eager batch of guinea-pigs and beta-testers ... I mean customers ... start giving some feedback.

Of course our number one priority is camera stabilisation but only three channels is a bit limiting. End-Point limits and RTH are too useful to not have. And, their magnetometer will probably suffer from the same problems as the PL if it is mounted on the same gimbal.

One possible reason for the Cineron's excellence could be the fact that it communicates with the heli FC IMU and is consequently better equipped to handle inertial stabilisation. Something that the standalone boxes have trouble with. It is one thing to be able to sense horizontal when stationary, it is something else to be able to determine horizontal when being subjected to centrifugal forces during a turn.

Yep - it seems to be a little limited. They should also be specific about its performance - for example, what's the sensitivity/range of the Gyro? Devices like this may be a god-send for owners of gimbal-challenged FCs, but I'm not sure it's going to advance the art of camera stabilisation

EDIT: oh, and I tend to distrust companies that can't spell

 

[Macsgrafs]

Well I managed to get the FY30A doing a reasonable (but not fantastic) job stabilising my AV200 360 gimbal.

What I did was switch the FY30A fro Camera Gimbal mode to standard airplane mode. Don't ask my why, but in airplane mode it is able to do a reasonable job of stabilising pitch and roll on the gimbal with a spectrum RX attached. Yaw stabilising doesn't work that well, with the gain high it oscillates, but with the gain lower, it doesn't apply enough correction.

So I've got the yaw directly connected to the RX, with Pitch and Roll connected via the Fy30A.

When it was in camera gimbal mode, the FY30 wouldn't give my TX enough throw to tilt the pitch 180 degrees.

Thats how I've done mine, never tried the camera mode. Still cant get straight down, but I can always put the FY30A in my SU26 & fly FPV

Ross

 

[MombasaFlash]

Looks like its driven by the mag - so it will just hold a particular compass heading.

Which will present a problem since we have discovered that on an AV200 the magnetism emitted by the powerful servos engulfs virtually the whole mount, leaving nowhere to install magnetometer reliant gear.

 

[Macsgrafs]

Which will present a problem since we have discovered that on an AV200 the magnetism emitted by the powerful servos engulfs virtually the whole mount, leaving nowhere to install magnetometer reliant gear.

Good point.

 

[DennyR]

I have been enjoying the pleasure of sub .005 stsbiliased camera resolution for about two and a half years. I have on a few occasions had to bite my lip because the value of such a device is clearly very evident, however my new online book will describe how it is done. It is actually quite simple, what I am going to do now is explain what you don't need. If you take an AHRS imu such as Georges Picloc V3 and then strap it to you camera mount then what you have just created is a second outer axis which is a total no brainer. I did try to help you mate. The model is the outer axis, If you have ever tried to use a tail rotor gyro on your mount then what will happen is the thing will oscillate wildly so there is another clue for you to ponder. I have to say that I am staggered that nobody else has worked this out yet but all will be revealed in the fullness of time. You are probably all going to throw your current mounts on the rubbish when you see this. An AHRS typically tries to fly your camera mount base plate and probably has very little improvement on what you could achieve with with a gopro solidly mounter on a 330 flame wheel. Eh up Dave has already proved that the model is a very good outer axis. If you could visualize a imu that was so sensitive that it could see your own heart beat then you might realise that wibbly wobbly camera mounts are out.

 

[MombasaFlash]

So what's your point?

 

[Macsgrafs]

I'm not sure if I follow you DennyR? I do know what you mean about the gyro on the same plane, but if I have to use a gyro its removed by one axis from the mount, in other words its mounted on the octo & not the mount.

Ross

 

[DennyR]

So what's your point?

do I have to spell' it out. making a second outer axis is a no brainer. I thought that this might be a little beyond the average modeler to grasp. I am not going to get dragged into details of how it works.

 

[DennyR]

I'm not sure if I follow you DennyR? I do know what you mean about the gyro on the same plane, but if I have to use a gyro its removed by one axis from the mount, in other words its mounted on the octo & not the mount.

Ross

If you create a second outer axis then your imu will need a feedback loop to deal with all of the **** that comes back from the mount itself. I am not going further than that. This not just an electronics solution.

 

[plingboot]

denny, when/where are you planning to out the book?

 

[Macsgrafs]

do I have to spell' it out. making a second outer axis is a no brainer. I thought that this might be a little beyond the average modeler to grasp. I am not going to get dragged into details of how it works.

If you create a second outer axis then your imu will need a feedback loop to deal with all of the **** that comes back from the mount itself. I am not going further than that. This not just an electronics solution.

Isn't that contradicting yourself a bit there Denny

 

[MombasaFlash]

do I have to spell' it out. making a second outer axis is a no brainer. I thought that this might be a little beyond the average modeler to grasp. I am not going to get dragged into details of how it works.

If you create a second outer axis then your imu will need a feedback loop to deal with all of the **** that comes back from the mount itself. I am not going further than that. This not just an electronics solution.

Oh dear, here we go again. Is it safe to assume that you are filling in time while the video files are rendering again?

If you wish to make a point then explain it with clarity. Cryptic suggestions followed up with comments alluding to everyone else' stupidity hardly makes it worth posting at all.

As Ross said, mounting an IMU for the camera stabilisation outside the primary plane of movements i.e. on the fixed part of the mount or the airframe itself - effectively one and the same - is currently an accepted method. The other is mounting the camera stabilisation IMU on the plane of movement itself i.e. the camera plate. The IMU is set up differently according to which mounting method is utilised.

This is an early lesson learned with simple stabilisation using a tail gyro such as the GY-401, where the gyro has to be one axis removed and then run in 'Normal' Rate mode rather than 'AVCS' AHRS.

So what exactly is the point you are trying to make?

 

[DennyR]

Oh dear, here we go again. Is it safe to assume that you are filling in time while the video files are rendering again?

If you wish to make a point then explain it with clarity. Cryptic suggestions followed up with comments alluding to everyone else' stupidity hardly makes it worth posting at all.

As Ross said, mounting an IMU for the camera stabilisation outside the primary plane of movements i.e. on the fixed part of the mount or the airframe itself - effectively one and the same - is currently an accepted method. The other is mounting the camera stabilisation IMU on the plane of movement itself i.e. the camera plate. The IMU is set up differently according to which mounting method is utilised.

This is an early lesson learned with simple stabilisation using a tail gyro such as the GY-401, where the gyro has to be one axis removed and then run in 'Normal' Rate mode rather than 'AVCS' AHRS.

So what exactly is the point you are trying to make?

I am not trying to make any point just explaining why a AHRS system strapped to the camera mount wont work properly If you cannot work out WHY from what I have told you then there is not much hope for you.

It was low budget dirt bag comments like that which stopped my posting this stuff two years ago. You are the ones who have suffered not me. do carry on trying but I have serious doubts that you will be amble to create one. I suggest you wait like everyone else and see what is available outside of buying an F1.

 

[Bartman]

folks, let's keep it civil please.

DFTT.

Bart

 

[DennyR]

Because you have made the wrong assumption that where and how you mount the imu has no bearing, I will once again say it. it is the fundamental element in how inner axis systems work. when I get unsavory remarks from people the first thing I do is research their work, if it is typical amatuer stuff then their is no point in talking because they have nothing to give back in return I learned that a long time ago. This business is all about takers!!! If I tell you how to do it you will go around telling the world that you created it.

 

[Bartman]

So what's your point?

mbf,
i believe what he is saying is that the camera tray (the part that the camera is attached to) itself can't be the source of attitude input for the camera mount's control system. if it were to be set up that way the attitude of the mount would be constantly updating the info going into the IMU and the constant feedback of the mount position into the IMU would be too much to process and possibly impossible to control precisely. so what he is inferring is that the IMU needs to be on the helicopter itself and that there needs to be some disconnect between the outer plane (helicopter) and the inner plane (camera tray) so that one is being sensed (outer) and the other is being controlled (tray). if the connection between the helicopter and camera mount is secure enough (not wobbling around and introducing additional freedoms of movement) then the mount will be in a position to effectively use the control output from the IMU and provide good camera stability. no doubt quality of components and mechanical design are critical to success.
I'm looking forward to seeing what he's come up with although I sense a bit of over-the-top salesmanship in his posts.

 

[Bartman]

Isn't that contradicting yourself a bit there Denny

i think he meant to say "if you DON'T create a second outer axis then your imu............"

 

[BorisS]

This guy doesn't care about cam stabi, at the moment. He just wanted to touch my CX and me saying watch out since the bird was already on the lipo and i was still fiddling in the car, he turned like a good mannered child. What you cant see or hear is him bursting into tears and hiding in mothers coat. Could be a MRF member soon and an amazing engineer

 

[MombasaFlash]

Touché. Ha-ha.

 

[MombasaFlash]

mbf,
i believe what he is saying is that the camera tray (the part that the camera is attached to) itself can't be the source of attitude input for the camera mount's control system. if it were to be set up that way the attitude of the mount would be constantly updating the info going into the IMU and the constant feedback of the mount position into the IMU would be too much to process and possibly impossible to control precisely. so what he is inferring is that the IMU needs to be on the helicopter itself and that there needs to be some disconnect between the outer plane (helicopter) and the inner plane (camera tray) so that one is being sensed (outer) and the other is being controlled (tray). if the connection between the helicopter and camera mount is secure enough (not wobbling around and introducing additional freedoms of movement) then the mount will be in a position to effectively use the control output from the IMU and provide good camera stability. no doubt quality of components and mechanical design are critical to success.
I'm looking forward to seeing what he's come up with although I sense a bit of over-the-top salesmanship in his posts.

Aha. Lucid. So that is what we are talking about and point well taken.

We will see.