Added Weight and hard to fly need advice people

VINHEX

VINHEX

Member
I'm running a DJI-F550 Wookong-M with standard Motors and ESC on a 3S-30C Battery's 10" Graupner Props. I've now added Gimbal and Landing Gear as well as FPV Kit.. Weight is now 2.9k with a 5000 3S On. She lifts and hovers at about 55% throttle however! Reaction time is slow.

Crappy video of first flight test. See bounce, would like to add this was a very windy day as well gusts coming through garden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k29n0O0zVtU

Now the BIG questions????

1: Would changing the gains help?
2: Should I change the motors?
3: Should I change the battery to 4S (Adding more weight for only a little extra power)

If I change motors then maybe it's time to change frame as well BUT kit will have to be modified to take gimbal and landing gear..

I know of some people running over 3K on a standard kit. I don't want to do stunt flying just nice smooth flying with nice control.
 
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Lanzar

Lanzar

Member
If you are in atti mode and you lift at 55% then this is not real 55% off throttle since naza will always lift around 50% no mather the weight. Try in manual and you will see the real throtle position.
3kg is way to much for f500 if you ask me.
Even with our kw2 motors this would be pushing it. KW2 and 4s and 10 inch graupners maybe. Would need to try it on our f550.


VINF550 said:
I'm running a DJI-F550 with standard Motors and ESC on a 3S-30C Battery's 10" Graupner Props. I've now added Gimbal and Landing Gear as well as FPV Kit.. Weight is now 2.9k with a 5000 3S On. She lifts and hovers at about 55% throttle however! Reaction time is slow.

Crappy video of first flight test. See bounce, would like to add this was a very windy day as well gusts coming through garden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k29n0O0zVtU

Now the BIG questions????

1: Would changing the gains help?
2: Should I change the motors?
3: Should I change the battery to 4S (Adding more weight for only a little extra power)

If I change motors then maybe it's time to change frame as well BUT kit will have to be modified to take gimbal and landing gear..

I know of some people running over 3K on a standard kit. I don't want to do stunt flying just nice smooth flying with nice control.
Click to expand...
 



Roger Ramjet

Roger Ramjet

Member
Also agree that something ought to come out...

I sit at 2358 g with a similar set up as yours and the ship flies really great (the pilot has a phase of cold feet now but the copter is great!) Just to compare, I have the following equipement:

- DJI FW 550 with standard ESC and motors, NAZA MC and Graupner 10 X 5 props
- X 468 landing gear with 2 gimballs actuated by Hitec HS-55
- Camera GoPro Hero 2
- DJI AVL 58 video transmitter
- 1 X 6000 mah 3S
- 1 X 900 mah 3S (for video tx)

I must be the Wookong that is much heavier than the NAZA and your landing gear that is heavy. I can get away with this as I am doing much more video than FPV flight. For FPV, as I understand it and it makes sense, the 2 gimballs and the possibility to tilt the camera is only confusing for the pilot. You associate a position for the horizon as reference that correspond to an MR attitude in flight. That's the FPV set-up. You do not want to constantly change this reference because you will be everywhere in the sky!

If you fly mostly FPV, one solution would be to get rid of your landing gear/gimballs system and replace all of this with 3 pegs and a fixed camera. That is all you need for landing gear..... Also, if you can shave some weight with other items, all the better. Of course, the 2400g published MTOW is not absolute, but it is nice to stay within 10% max if you want to be able to deal with all the weather and WIND conditions.

Other solution is to buy extensions arms, bigger motors and bigger batteries..... (see interesting modification to F450 and F550 in the active threads of this forum) but this is definitely MUCH more expensive.... it is, in fact, a totally new ship....

You have the choice, but I do not think that adding weight to an aircraft already much overweight is the way to go.

Good luck!
 
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Tomstoy2

Tomstoy2

Member
mt2216-900's, 30a esc's, and 11x3.8 APC props on 4s will do the trick.

That's my set up on my X/A Hexa and I have even more weight, 2 ballterys in parallel.
 


Tomstoy2

Tomstoy2

Member
I apologize, 10" props!!!!

Damn, I'm getting old,,,,,

Anyway, I'm flying a ton of weight, don't know how much exactly. 2ea 4s 5000mah batterys, 1 3s 850 mah battery, GP2 and a cheap gimbal, plus the fpv gear including the Seswolf camera housed, which is one heavy bastard.

4.5's made her fly pretty damn weightless, ( except recovery time is radically effected ), but hover was low, about 40%.
After swapping to 3.8's she hovers at 50% but does feel a little bit heavier, not much. Pretty happy with it. 14 minutes of flight time with an added safety time of about 1 1/2 minutes, just in case.
She doesn't fly as nice as she did with just one 4s battery, but the added time really is what I'm after. Smooth and stable is more important to me than the ability to toss her around effectively.

If this is what you are after with this frame, this set up will work.
Stock motors won't cut it. They were sized for stock set up.

Agree that the choices are limited.
If you want to fly your rig as is, then you need to loose weight.
If you awnt to mod your rig to fly more weight, it can be done, within limits.
Ideally, a larger frame and set up is what is desirable, ( the point I am at now with my rig ).

Always check your #'s with a calculator! Tripple check them, make sure every figure is entered.

The big thing in modding is when things go bad in flight it creates a hell of a debris field!
 

kloner

kloner

Aerial DP
i didn't look but i think your close to the max rpm for most props like that. kinda the angle i'm looking at for a super speed machine, but is my limit is the rpm it takes to spin that small a prop that hard. the disco i've been rocking is 8" props with 1000kv and 4s, that's some fast props. I've seen cavitation burn from it. the trailing edge is "worn"

My hex is 8000mah, no gimble 650mm with 770 kv and it takes 12x5-12x6 to lift it all at 3.3-3.6kilo at the right throttle range. it's like 32 - 33 amps at a hover
 

Tomstoy2

Tomstoy2

Member
Yeah, she's maxed for sure. Would love to add a few items, osd, uhf and such but I would have to do something with batterys. That's why I an looking into something larger now. Right now, all motors and esc's come down around 92 degree's F.. Only hold up is I'm also considering a Diso as a dedicated fpv rig, too.

I was looking at what I could do with my Hexa, got looking at a 650 and seeing what I could transfer over, so I was checking if my motors would spin 11's. It would require 240 watts taking my motors out of range, even if I take the 10% rating rule into consideration. Not good.
That's why I had 11's stuck in my head.
11's would do the job on a 650 but a motor upgrade right now is not what I want to do until I finally decide which way I really want to go.

Crashing an expensive ship a mile out is never fun, especially when you have 10 pounds of titanium for a knee! Crashing a Disco would be a hell of a lot cheaper, ( fraid that last pumpkin incident still runs thru my mind. Did NOT enjoy the thought I would have to replace my WKM if I could not find it!!! Bad enough loosing $100's in motors esc's, frame, gimbal, camera and all the rest, but the WKM would have been a serious $ set back ).
Really need an osd that had gps so I can eliminate that concern.

Just goes to show, everything you do has a trade off somehow.
 

VINHEX

VINHEX

Member
Moving up changing frame and motors. I cant think of anything that I would like to add, however my gimbal is for the Nex5N and I'm using a GoPro on her. If I decide one day that I want to use the Nex5n then done. Will keep you posted on the new bird very soon.
 

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