Your thoughts about the mW output power

Jessestr

Member
Hi there

I was recently checking the laws in my country about output power of video transmitters.. For private usage:
2.4Ghz is limited to 10mW
5.8Ghz is limited to 25mW..

Really what a joke is this.. What are your thoughts about it? It's everywhere in Europe like this.
Would you use a 200mW or 600mW transmitter when you are only allowed to use 25mW? What range could you possibly get with 25mW...

Thanks
 

Macsgrafs

Active Member
I have seen people get 7Km's with 25mW of RF power...its down to the aerials mainly! Have you visited www.fpvlab.com you will find much info on this sort of question.

ross
 





Jessestr

Member
Yep. But it was a bad ground test tho! Should try some more but if I knew I wouldn't have bought these items.

Like I like my goggles but I don't think they are worth all the money..
 

Kilby

Active Member
Jesse, make sure you NEVER power up your vtx without the antenna attached. If so, it's blown the power amp inside and you will lose most of your mW, even if it's only for a split second.
 

FerdinandK

Member
@Jessestr
With 25mW (iftrontech stinger) and CL as TX and SPW and 8Turn-Helix on an EZtracker on iftrontech yellow jacket I come close to 2km (useable) range. My compromise is, that I use 100mWatt, here I can even go 2km in 30m heigth, that is sufficient. I am not sure, that without tracker you get reasonable range for 25mWatt. You should also go for high quality TX,RX at least the vendor for TX and RX should be the same.

best regards

Ferdinand
 


RTRyder

Merlin of Multirotors
7km ! I can barely get 200 meter with my 600mW...
You mean it up to the antenna's?

Yes, among other things. If you have a set of CP antennas and are only getting 200 meter range in the air something else is wrong, I easily get well over 600 meters with an Immersion 600mw, Uno RX and clover/SPW CP antenna. I've been out as far as 700 meters before the 2.4gHz radio started to get lockouts, the video on 5.8 was still perfectly clear at roughly 100 meter altitude at that distance on my MK quad. With a crosshair or helical I can get even further on 5.8 600mw using 433mHz for the radio control.

I also have a 100mw Immersion on a DJI F330 and I've been over 200 meters with that setup as well using the Immersion Spironet antenna set.

Ken
 

R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
Ken, I'm building a tracker with a 16dBi patch for my 2.4GHz control, and 7-turn 11dBi helical for the 5.8GHz. Should this work and get me out far or is one or the other going to be a weak point? How come you went to 433 for control instead of trying a patch on the 2.4?
 

Jessestr

Member
Been contacting some guys in my country that fly fpv too.. Apparently 5.8Ghz is a very bad option here.. We have no big plain fields and things to fly over. switching to 2.4ghz lawmatz & uhf..
 

R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
Been contacting some guys in my country that fly fpv too.. Apparently 5.8Ghz is a very bad option here.. We have no big plain fields and things to fly over. switching to 2.4ghz lawmatz & uhf..

What is the terrain like?

I'm going to be heading up into the forests on the weekend and trying this out. I'm curious to see how it works out with lots of big trees around.
 

kloner

Aerial DP
the biggest reason to goto 433 aside from having absolute control no matter what you fly behind is to open up 2.4 for video. The quality and difference is amazing.

The only problem with trackers is your counting on another system to work. naza with gps alot less problem, but none the less. I'm trying to get out of my tracker and go to all manual aimed stuff with diversity. Counting on a satelite connection to work is my biggest problem. my eagle tree likes to either not lock in or to loose connection randomly. took 30-40 flights, but the 5.8 video with 2.4 controll seems to hammer it worse than any other combo. Your flying along, notice junk on the screen, look over and the antenna is pointing the wrong way, look back at the osd and gps coords are gone, compass defaults north and the tracker freezes. EZosd trackers go back to default position unless my friend that had it sucked that bad, which he could.
 

Jessestr

Member
Terrain is just street.. No high buildings but lots of lots of objects like cars, trees, bushes, hedges, people, houses.. Everywhere there is an object that will cause reflection.

What is the terrain like?

I'm going to be heading up into the forests on the weekend and trying this out. I'm curious to see how it works out with lots of big trees around.


Yep. That's why I want UHF.. To open up 2.4Ghz for FPV.
I'm not going to use a tracker.. Just setup the antenna's and good to go..
Trackers aren't really that good imo..

the biggest reason to goto 433 aside from having absolute control no matter what you fly behind is to open up 2.4 for video. The quality and difference is amazing.

The only problem with trackers is your counting on another system to work. naza with gps alot less problem, but none the less. I'm trying to get out of my tracker and go to all manual aimed stuff with diversity. Counting on a satelite connection to work is my biggest problem. my eagle tree likes to either not lock in or to loose connection randomly. took 30-40 flights, but the 5.8 video with 2.4 controll seems to hammer it worse than any other combo. Your flying along, notice junk on the screen, look over and the antenna is pointing the wrong way, look back at the osd and gps coords are gone, compass defaults north and the tracker freezes. EZosd trackers go back to default position unless my friend that had it sucked that bad, which he could.
 

Jessestr

Member
Did another ground test on a more open field with trees and such. Got about 120 meter with vTx ON the ground.. Not on a table or something.Signal was clear, only when I turn around it had some noise. Behind bushes and trees some noise but ok..

Hope it will be better in the air
 

kloner

Aerial DP
That sounds pretty good. Fly slowly obviously and try not freaking out on the slightest junk. The only time i lost signal i had a video cable from the cam to the osd fall off midflight, but close by and just flew it home. the 5.8 has never just flat gone blank, it gets staticy for a bit, but i'm talking i was a mile away passing behind mountains

That's 1600 meters to you

i always fly in atti and i got this crappy habit from the 5.8 freaking me out just from what all i read here i was letting go of full cyclic forward when the slightest junk popped up so you really see me trip out in the craft when there is junk. that video didn't have much of it and them mountains are full of iron so signals suck there. Took me a half hour to get a gps signal before that flight on et osd pro
 
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R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
the biggest reason to goto 433 aside from having absolute control no matter what you fly behind is to open up 2.4 for video. The quality and difference is amazing.

The only problem with trackers is your counting on another system to work. naza with gps alot less problem, but none the less. I'm trying to get out of my tracker and go to all manual aimed stuff with diversity. Counting on a satelite connection to work is my biggest problem. my eagle tree likes to either not lock in or to loose connection randomly. took 30-40 flights, but the 5.8 video with 2.4 controll seems to hammer it worse than any other combo. Your flying along, notice junk on the screen, look over and the antenna is pointing the wrong way, look back at the osd and gps coords are gone, compass defaults north and the tracker freezes. EZosd trackers go back to default position unless my friend that had it sucked that bad, which he could.

You're saying the difference between 2.4 and 5.8 for vid is amazing? I haven't be left lacking on 5.8 vid yet, but I'll keep it in mind. The thing I like about 2.4 for control, obviously is it's dead-nuts simple, and cheap. And the FrSky stuff just seems to work. And I have telemetry on the radio link giving me bi-direction RSSI which is awesome.

I understand you wanting to keep it simple and get rid of the tracker. But, the Arducopter telemetry link seems to be pretty solid. I've never lost the link in the air, even a little bit, except for one time when the cable between the Xbee and the APM vibrated loose in my 4-stroke powered airplane, which was totally my fault. And then if I did lose the telemetry, I'm pretty sure the tracker system would just stay at the last known good position.

And even then, I have a failsafe. If it all goes to hell on the ground and I loose vid and/or telemetry and/or control and/or the tracker stops working... it will RTL pretty reliably. But I totally understand what you're saying, if you don't have RTL ability, you do not want to add another system which can fail, leaving you with no control or vid, when you're a mile away.

Terrain is just street.. No high buildings but lots of lots of objects like cars, trees, bushes, hedges, people, houses.. Everywhere there is an object that will cause reflection.

And this is causing you problems?

Where I did my 200m test is in my back yard, as shown in this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLerXsxkOf4&feature=g-upl

S
o the ground control is on my back deck, with the house at my back, other houses around, cars and streets around, bushes everywhere. That bush you see in the background goes back 200m. I flew up on top of that bush, and then back 200m and was hovering over another subdivision, with houses and trees and cars. No problem at all.
 

Jessestr

Member
And this is causing you problems?

Where I did my 200m test is in my back yard, as shown in this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLerXsxkOf4&feature=g-upl

S
o the ground control is on my back deck, with the house at my back, other houses around, cars and streets around, bushes everywhere. That bush you see in the background goes back 200m. I flew up on top of that bush, and then back 200m and was hovering over another subdivision, with houses and trees and cars. No problem at all.

I see.. Well I didn't fly while testing.. It was lying on the ground.. but really on the ground in the grass.
 

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