WHY or perhaps the question should be WHY NOT

[DennyR]

When I look back at my most successful aerial platforms in terms of time and effort against the results that I was able to create. The MR does not actually fair very well. The first and possible the best was and still is my 2 meter carbon blade motor glider. capable of over 200 KPH in the dive and with an endurance of 1.2 hours. Nice compact 3 axis camera mount with no issues of stability or vibration. Totally reliable. The next and definitely the best heavier lift solution is the SR, TD Rigid Henseleit fitted with Spin 720 asymmetric blades. Pyro 700-52 motor with a Jive 120 ESC and then a SkooKum 720 auto-level flybarless controller plus a Zenmuse. This system is just bullet proof. Not only the fastest 250 (KPH) it is the smoothest and most efficient SR in the sky. With it's low rotor speed of 1400 rpm it draws one third of the power that the more normal 2000 rpm models do. Far better endurance, stability and reliability than ANY MR will ever have. Anything that can survive the rigors of top level world class 3D is a totally reliable power train. It does also have one very important other feature Autorotation.:tennis:

Why do I punish myself. Even A S800 drops out of the sky sometimes.

 

[ChrisViperM]

....Why...because you like to tackle challenges.....:nevreness:


"Pyro 700-52 motor with a Jive 120 ESC and then a SkooKum 720"...I have the exact same setup, but on a Raptor G4, and without Zenmuse. I tried about every FBL system, but Skookum (with the Power Bus) made it for me.

Chris

 

[Bartman]

Denny,

I would offer the suggestion that you try the Hoverfly system. There are other systems with more features but the HF doesn't seem to have the spontaneous-descent issue and the resident 2 axis camera control is very mellow once it's tuned correctly. I'll post some video as soon as it stops raining and I can get to the park.

THe HF PRO flies as well as anything out there with their latest firmware upgrade. THe only part I can't yet vouch for is how well is does in strong winds. My MK XY8 has easily handled 35 mph winds and shot pretty decent video at the same time. If the PRO can do that then I'm sold.

I'm also seeing improved video with dissimilar propellers. 12x5's on top and 13x7's on the bottom. I believe the variation is helping to reduce what actually makes it to the camera sensor.

fwiw, HF doesn't pay me to say nice things. they buy advertising but i've been known to remove advertisements when vendors didn't deliver on their promises.

 

[jes1111]

There are some distinct advantages - blade protection, foldability, indoor use and so on. I think both platforms have their place. Now - buggy FC firmware... that's a different problem.

 

[DennyR]

Denny,

I would offer the suggestion that you try the Hoverfly system. There are other systems with more features but the HF doesn't seem to have the spontaneous-descent issue and the resident 2 axis camera control is very mellow once it's tuned correctly. I'll post some video as soon as it stops raining and I can get to the park.

THe HF PRO flies as well as anything out there with their latest firmware upgrade. THe only part I can't yet vouch for is how well is does in strong winds. My MK XY8 has easily handled 35 mph winds and shot pretty decent video at the same time. If the PRO can do that then I'm sold.

I'm also seeing improved video with dissimilar propellers. 12x5's on top and 13x7's on the bottom. I believe the variation is helping to reduce what actually makes it to the camera sensor.

fwiw, HF doesn't pay me to say nice things. they buy advertising but i've been known to remove advertisements when vendors didn't deliver on their promises.

I am sure that hoverfly has some good stuff going on and as Jeremy put it, a few bugs still to sort out with all of the top systems. What I do find hard to come to terms with is the disadvantages that are still there even when it is working right. The TDR takes up far less room in the back of the car. it is almost immune to high wind attacks. It is not stressed out by lifting heavy cameras. And I have confidence that if I fly to the top of a high rise building it is not going to drop down on the street below. I still have my small inspection 535 series that are designed as a light vehicle that wont do too much damage if it were to malfunction. There is a place for MR but I do think that as things get bigger then one has to look at energy conversion more closely. MR can never compete in that area, Too many electrical and mechanical failure points. and aerodynamic losses. When risk management is done, the odds are heavily stacked against.

Skookum made in Canada yeah.... the ultimate bail out lightning quick auto level.

and I think one of the other models they do can be used as a MR controller.

 

[DucktileMedia]

There are still some things I really like about SRH's. One main thing is with a dual operator the orientation is so much easier as you dont focus on the skids, you look at the body/tail. And since the gimbal is up front you dont get distracted by it so much. I still havent seen many SRH's that dont jitter in yaw though and it is very time consuming to get rid of those vibrations that are just perfectly wrong in frequency for a camera. But yes, once tuned, they are nice. And wind not being an issue is very nice as well. but god damn, those 700+ size blades are down right nerve racking to be around. That's really the main reason I dont fly them.

FWIW, I am pretty sold on my Hoverfly Pro XY8 config. I know Bart and I are the only ones with this setup now but I am positive it will catch on and be the next best thing.

 

[Bartman]

The TDR takes up far less room in the back of the car.

fwiw,

my XY8 can swing up to 15 inch props, carry a 5D and it easily fits across the backseat of a Honda Civic. I can actually squeeze two of them back there if I remove the props on one and still have room in the trunk for all my other stuff.

 

[DennyR]

One of the other considerations is that of speed. It is not much use at low level unless you are following a car for example but the higher you go the faster you need to travel. I don't think I'll be flying a TDR through that hoop nor inspecting insulators so It is not all perfect.

I just think for the few benefits that a MR can bring we pay a high price.

 

[DennyR]

Is it the seemingly easy way to get into hovering without all that heli hassle, or is it the sheer fun that one gets from building one, maybe it's the challenge of designing your own and against all odds seeing it fly. Wow one could even put a camera on one. yeah, Why not, I could even start a small business taking aerial pictures before anyone else thinks of it. Yeah thats the ticket.........

Some opening one liners for your next comp.

 

[Bartman]

it ain't cheap! that's for sure!

i've got mine working pretty well but it's taken a huge amount of time to get there. money too but that's coming from the work I get now so at least my home budget isn't working as hard to keep me flying as it was initially.

regards,
bart

 

[Bowley]

I think MR's should be flown with utmost regard for what they could potentially fall on. there seems to be a major trend at the moment and a sense that MR's can be flown by anyone, anywhere. you just have to browse youtube to see this, some of it makes me shudder. The fact that they are so easy to fly removes a particular safety filter. So many people are flying MR's without any grounding in RC flight whatsoever.
If you saw someone flying an RC Plane of roughly 2kg in a public park most people would think; hey you cant fly that thing here, and by and large they are flown at flying fields except the light foam parkflyers, which is fair enough, yet MR's are equally dangerous IMO and folk are flying em up roads, in busy parks, over peoples houses and gardens. etc
Flying over large crowds or in fact anyone uninvolved and unaware of the risks involved is seriously irresponsible.
I cannot say that I am not guilty of any of this BTW.


Although MR's certainly have a place and have advantages over SR's as do SR's over MR's. but I feel that they should be flown with an expectation and anticipation of failure.This is going to be a unpopular stance and I'm probably going to get no end of flack here, but the fact is if they are not operated in this manner people are going to get sue'd, injured and God forbid worse.


I'm not saying that SR's or FW is any safer but perhaps generally speaking they are in safer hands with all due respect to the many experienced and safe MR flyers on this forum.

I guess like many others, as I have come down this road of RC Flight I have developed a strange sense and see the world in terms of bubbles and corridors of air bordered with hazards and risks.
I think this is essential if we are to continue to operate within the general community.

 

[jes1111]

IMO the greatest risk of all is FPV - and judging by YouTube, a very high percentage of FPVers are criminally irresponsible

Licencing for paid work will help, of course, but the too-casual hobbyist will always be a danger to himself and others. Mind you, we have guns, crossbows, slingshots, motorcycles, cars and a whole host of other "dangerous weapons" and, by and large, they are used responsibly. Frankly I'm surprised by the apparent lack of interest in enclosed blades for MRs - they change the entire safety equation.

Being a long-time biker, I developed a "no blame" policy: if I crash it is always my fault - I cannot blame anything or anybody else. Once you're in that mindset you see maintenance, roadcraft, weather, other road users, etc. in a different way. So it should be with MRs.

 

[Macsgrafs]

sounds like the old film cameras are better than digital cameras routine

Ross

 

[hjls3]

Just throwing this out there...all cost and troubles aside, I am quite pleased with how flying the MR's has helped my skills flying the SR. I am purely a hobbyist and having fun, but my confidence with the SR has greatly improved since the MR. Maybe that is a good reason to muck around with the MR's now knock on wood, i will probably crash my heli this afternoon.

 

[Macsgrafs]

What a great thread to get ideas or the competition

 

[chopper]

I'm at a crossroad right now. I want a backup AP unit, but not sure if I want to build up a cinistar type MR or get another 700 sized heli. I have had no trouble getting great footage from my heli, and it can easily lift a payload for AP. I thought maybe the MR route would be less expensive at first, but I don't think that's the case. Actually, building up a 700 size heli looks like a less expensive option. anyone else out ther have to decide can share why they went with one or the other? I have experience with most of the DJI products( Naza, WKM, WK - H). So far I've spent way more time configuring my 550 with the WKM than my heli with WK- H .. My trial and error time spent on my MR was quite a bit longer ( trying to get rid of wobbles). I must have tweaked my gain settings a gazillion times before buying some smaller props that finally fixed the issue.. Anyway, this is not a rant, rather just my experience to date.

 

[PaNt]

MR can never compete in that area, Too many electrical and mechanical failure points. and aerodynamic losses. When risk management is done, the odds are heavily stacked against.

Skookum made in Canada yeah.... the ultimate bail out lightning quick auto level.

and I think one of the other models they do can be used as a MR controller.

Electrical yes... Mechanical NO... NO way the helis has so much more things to fail ...

Also if you do a right setup with good quality board plus escs plus motors and put the right prop with the right lipo and weight you wont have any problems..!

With the MRs everyone can try and do something so if he dont know he will crash it for sure ( the most times the failure is from wrong setups..! tottaly wrong setups)..! WIth helis only someone that knows well will do AP with a HELI so he will put the right heli motor esc servo combo !...

 

[DennyR]

Electrical yes... Mechanical NO... NO way the helis has so much more things to fail ...

Also if you do a right setup with good quality board plus escs plus motors and put the right prop with the right lipo and weight you wont have any problems..!

With the MRs everyone can try and do something so if he dont know he will crash it for sure ( the most times the failure is from wrong setups..! tottaly wrong setups)..! WIth helis only someone that knows well will do AP with a HELI so he will put the right heli motor esc servo combo !...

It is a simple to understand fact that the high end SR 3D helis do not fail in the air. This is due to the intensive R&D that has been done over the years. The single ESC is a work of art and very expensive. Yet it runs the motor at a constant speed. That speed can be changed to avoid harmonic vibrations. The stress levels on a modern 3D electric heli are far greater than will ever be encountered flying AP. All MR's fail and crash eventually as everybody has found out. For some, like myself it is very rare and for others it happens often. When a MR is flying in turbulence the electronics have to work much harder and this can be seen by the increase in temperatures and reduced endurance. The safety margin is just not there. When you start to add weight then it gets far worse. All of the top FC controllers have bugs in them somewhere. Otherwise they would not need firmware updates every five mins. How many people do you know that have never had a crash with a MR. probably none. How many people are there flying large scale helis that have never had a crash -thousands.

I have two of my 535 designs here one of which has more than 1000 flights on it without any sign of trouble the other failed after 250 flights. The reason as yet not known. That tells me that it is not reliable enough to fly a commercial op.

The 535 is probably the most highly developed MR ever made, it has stability like no other and each component is under far less stress than anything commercially available. it has safety designed into it from the frame to the electronics the motors and props. However a simple firmware update was all it took to bring it down.

 

[PaNt]

Are you 3ding???

There are several things that can fail even in slow rpms for sure...!!! First of all static can do it!!! You can put antistatic but again you might have problem... With my logo 600se AP i had a tail servo failure 100$ servo!!!

I am telling you again thta the setup is very very important...

You have to find the reliable products (and of course no chinese) for me the hfp is the best in realibility!!


I wont continue as i have to maiden my cs8 with hfp and you made me a little scared... Dont forget i am a 3d heli pilot!!!