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What would be your ideal heavy-lift AP machine?

Discussion in 'Recreational sUAS Flyers Discussions' started by jes1111, Mar 19, 2014.

  1. jes1111

    jes1111 Active Member

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    Posted by jes1111, Mar 19, 2014 #1
    Many people here have extensive experience of using the various top-end airframes available, as well as building their own. So, if we assume that none of the currently available machines are 100% ideal, what would be the spec and features of your "dream machine"?

    Some possible features/characteristics (in no particular order):
    • Foldable arms
    • Removeable arms
    • Light weight
    • Compact for transport
    • Fast to setup for flight
    • Easy field repairs
    • Quick-release gimbal attachment
    • Wide gimbal compatibility
    • Long flight time
    • Retractable landing gear
    • "weather proof"
    • Enclosed fuselage
    • Easy orientation
    • Maximum camera field of view
    • Propeller guards
    • Quick-detach propellers
    • Foldable propellers
    • Effective anti-vibe mechanism(s)
    • etc.
     
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  2. kloner

    kloner Aerial DP

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    Posted by kloner, Mar 19, 2014 #2
    my hc1100 is pretty much that....

    missing-----
    prop size for the modern and future motors
    overbuilt for headroom, almost everything out there barely lifts a red, 60-70% throttle doing so, all frames maxed at 15" props and now were getting into 6-12s and need 16, 17, 18" props.... now we got back down to 40-50% throttle carrying a red, it can hit wind and not flip over or uncommanded yaw input....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2014
  3. Quinton

    Quinton Active Member

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    Posted by Quinton, Mar 19, 2014 #3
    For me weight is no1
    Easy storage ie (foldable arms) that are also secure, and some kind of fail safe lock pin to make sure they can not come loose.
    Quick release for retractable landing gear.
    The Aeronavics ones are really great, but by the time you add in the rail and gimbal quick release, it adds quite a bit of weight.
    Gimbal quick release is a must.

    Easy access to the ESCs, Motor Connectors etc so you can actually check if things are hot, or if there is any wear or tear, again the Aeronavics ones sound good, but they are far from quick release, you want to be able to get at the Flight Controller etc without needing different tools.
    Plenty of space for the batteries, so you can have 1-4 batteries if needed.
    It sounds easy and simple to have something that everyone would want, but has anyone actually made one yet..I'm not so sure!

    added* possibly self tightening propeller nuts, and universal prop adapter sizes, that is 1 thing I hate, that motors having different sized shafts.
    Also things added so you can easily for example stick your FC LED to the back.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2014
  4. SamaraMedia

    SamaraMedia Active Member

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    Posted by SamaraMedia, Mar 19, 2014 #4
    Kloner,

    I can see why you like your HC1100, for what you haul around it must be a great setup. I'm looking to upgrade the DIY hex I've been building and considering going with something proven but I don't feel the need for something that big, looking for advice on a Droidworx frame. I noticed you mentioned the Aeronavics - "Foldable arms better way imo for a real heavy lifter to travel in case.... quick release foldable like aeronavics is dope" Could you expound on it a little bit? Aerovavics has a couple possible choices on sale and wondered what your thoughts would be, I'm considering either of these two frames

    http://1uas.com/Cat-Clearance/Aeronavics-DroidWorx-Airframe-SkyJib-6-Lite
    http://1uas.com/Cat-Clearance/Aeronavics-DroidWorx-Airframe-XM-6
    http://1uas.com/Cat-Multicopter/Cat-Cat-DroidWorx/Droidworx-Airframe-XM-6-Titanium

    I know you love the new KDE motors and I'm sure they are worth it but they're offering some Tmotor 3520's for a decent price.
    http://1uas.com/Cat-Clearance/Tiger-Motor-T-Motor-MT3520-11-400KV-For-Aeronavics-Droidworx-Skyjib

    End game is to build a hex capable of carrying a mirrorless camera or DSLR with 3 axis gimbal on 6s, similar to what jes is looking for.

    Also have a DiscoPro I have yet to build but I'm waiting for your V2 arms. I noticed on your site that you offer a kit for a F550, do you offer one for the Disco since that is what you designed them for? Don't really need the extra 2 arms but I guess it wouldn't hurt to have some spare parts around though.

    Thanks,

    John
     
  5. kloner

    kloner Aerial DP

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    Posted by kloner, Mar 20, 2014 #5
    I would build a 800 with those motors, 40 amp opto, 14" props 6s for mirrorless, 1000-1100mm for the dslr same motors, 60 amp opto, 15" prop..... you can carry too light a load easily, but overload one and the whole game changes. dslr needs the long arms for leverage and enough thrust.... i fly the heavy v2 with this exact setup all the time, it's got balls

    i just got 3 t-motor 3520 from that guy, that's whats on my jib

    none of those frame you show have the quick release arms,,,,

    were just out of kits right now waiting on the new ones.... there is 4 hex kits left of the first batch.... when our store inventory is out it just makes em dissapear till we add more, i'll work on fixing that. Were on a lightbox mission to finish the site so we will be in there shortly finishing it all up.....
     
  6. Lanzar

    Lanzar Member

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    Posted by Lanzar, Mar 20, 2014 #6
    First off all Heavy lift - what is heavy lift , 6, 10, 20 kg payload.
    Some possible features/characteristics (in no particular order):

    • Foldable arms doable and safe
    • Removeable arms not safe at all
    • Light weight not realy doable
    • Compact for transport As compact as a foldable can be
    • Fast to setup for flight Fast specife in min
    • Easy field repairs this is why pro teams have backup
    • Quick-release gimbal attachment doable
    • Wide gimbal compatibility doable
    • Long flight time again, time in min with payload
    • Retractable landing gear a must
    • "weather proof" why ???
    • Enclosed fuselage not needed
    • Easy orientation easy to do
    • Maximum camera field of view this is probably for tilt up
    • Propeller guards can be installed on all
    • Quick-detach propellers doable but not safe at all
    • Foldable propellers not a good choice, balacing almot imposible
    • Effective anti-vibe mechanism(s) a lot off option
    Well we have spent 100x hours on making a solution that would have all the must and and a lot off i would like to have stuff on our new Hammer edition x8.
    THere are infinite number off ways to go at it.

    Wish you good luck with building the DREAM copter.
     
  7. SamaraMedia

    SamaraMedia Active Member

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    Posted by SamaraMedia, Mar 20, 2014 #7
    Thanks as always Kloner,

    Just looked at the Aeronavics homepage and now I see the foldable arm models...correct, those I mentioned do not have the foldable arms. Was hoping to find a US dealer with that feature but my resort to the solid arms for now.

    John
     
  8. kloner

    kloner Aerial DP

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    Posted by kloner, Mar 20, 2014 #8
    that's what i did....

    at the aeronavics site they have all the pre titanium stuff half off, make sure what you want isn't there.... you will get used to ordering form them if you get one, not many parts are held in stock in the us, but fed ex out of new zealand is only 6-7 days, just kinda cost alot to ship stuff especially when you get into little things and parts, but there are what they are....
     
  9. jes1111

    jes1111 Active Member

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    Posted by jes1111, Mar 20, 2014 #9
    Some thought-provoking answers coming in - thanks.

    Lanzar - I'm curious about the NEO Cine. How would you differentiate that particular machine from the others you sell? i.e. for what reasons might you recommend it to an undecided customer? what are its distinct advantages?
     
  10. Stacky

    Stacky Member

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    Posted by Stacky, Mar 20, 2014 #10
    So many of these options depend on what sort of work you wish to do.

    I have a need for weatherproof for example. I have an application where being able to fly in the rain would be a feature clients would like.

     
  11. kloner

    kloner Aerial DP

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    Posted by kloner, Mar 20, 2014 #11
    it'd have to be made for that.... we do uav engineering if ya need something.... for the ordinary ap, it's just not feasable to fly a camera in the rain, my camera gets wet & we can't lift a fully shrouded gimbal yet.... to me that'd be a specialized rig that only goes out then. moist environments make electronics run really hot too, like if it was a warm weather rain like summer would make all kinds of life lessons.....
     
  12. Stacky

    Stacky Member

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    Posted by Stacky, Mar 20, 2014 #12
    It doesnt have to be for a camera.

     
  13. kloner

    kloner Aerial DP

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    Posted by kloner, Mar 20, 2014 #13
    gotcha,,,still like aqua copter type thing....
     
  14. jes1111

    jes1111 Active Member

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    Posted by jes1111, Mar 20, 2014 #14
    I don't suppose many people are ever going to try flying in a thunderstorm - but it would surely be useful to be able to tolerate a light shower? We get them quite frequently here in Europe ;). The better DSLR and mirrorless cameras are weather sealed (but not the Red, I gather). Tiger is touting some of its motors as "waterproof". I don't know of any FCs or other electronics that are specifically "weather sealed", so a "weather proof" MR would probably need an enclosed fuselage area to shield the electronics and connectors.
     
  15. kloner

    kloner Aerial DP

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    Posted by kloner, Mar 20, 2014 #15
    you guys have that pcb coating over there that shows people dunking there gear in water and it still works.... forget the name..... would be the better way than trying to seal it all off..... seems like it's need a lot once you enclosed it all like a wet proof ventilation system like a big boat would....a drain for the water but still venting....

    I thought i saw all brushless motors while powered are waterproof, no way for the water to get in them. The esc's, uh, yea, they hate water. An fc would seem easy enough to coat and protect, but then that stupid barometer hole would have to get clogged with a dropplet sooner or later, you'd think
     
  16. Bartman

    Bartman Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!

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    Posted by Bartman, Mar 21, 2014 #16
    a tube with a 180 deg. elbow on top would probably keep it clear if it could be affixed to the sensor body, too far underwater though and it would need a snorkle.

    not quite a heavy lifter but something i've been working on, meets a lot of the needs listed above, wiring isn't connected and disconnected each use which means no connectors to come loose, this one is built for up to 12" props but in the case shown it could probably be built to take up to about 15" props. arms telescope out and then are clamped into place, tubular aluminum gear plug into the bottom and the mount hangs on four points. it's for forestry research in SE Asia. more of a test bed to see if MR's can do the job for them. haven't tried it yet but with two 8000mah 6S packs it's probably good for about 25 minutes of flying. Mikrokopter FC 2.5 and HW ESC's under the canopy.

    View attachment 16906
     

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  17. DucktileMedia

    DucktileMedia Drone Enthusiast

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    Posted by DucktileMedia, Mar 21, 2014 #17
    Nice Bart! I'm jealous. Do the telescoping arms twist at all? It would be great if there was an oval carbon fiber that sleeved.
     
  18. Bartman

    Bartman Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!

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    Posted by Bartman, Mar 21, 2014 #18
    Thanks Yuri. It's taken a while to get this heli built, something of a swan song for Aerdro but I'm pretty happy with how it turned out.

    i forget who it was that came up with using a length of aluminum angle across the prop mounts for motor alignment but that's what's included with the heli to align the arms/motors. when it's all jigged up the clamps get tightened and they're ready to go, it's a few minutes to do all four arms. with bigger motors I'd probably also include some clips to go through the two telescoping tubes to contribute to keeping things aligned. ovular tubes would be cool too but so expensive as the round tube clamps are a stock item and oval telescoping tube clamps would have to be done custom. Probably at least $4000 for the injection molding mold before any manufacturing was done.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2014
  19. jes1111

    jes1111 Active Member

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    Posted by jes1111, Mar 22, 2014 #19
    Nice machine!

    A barometer should be fine as long as it's under a cover such as that one shown and has a piece of open-cell foam over it.
     
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