Hoverfly Something BIG coming soon!

[Stacky]

http://www.sky-hero.com/downloads/Spyder.pdf (see 1:00 onwards)

It's such a daft idea I had to double-check. It's right there in the build manual. Two ESCs enclosed within each arm - no ventilation at all :dejection:

http://www.sky-hero.com/downloads/Spyder.pdf

I see what you mean.
I found the heat build up on my aquacopter with the esc's and batteries both generating heat to be pretty decent. Not hot but very warm. However I only ever really tested this thing out in spring and never tried it in the heat of summer which would have got worse. I ended up water proofing the esc's and putting them outside the aquacopter but eventually gave up on it because of a few other design issues I had with it.
Surely they would have tested that design and checked the esc temperatures before putting them on the market? I cant imagine they would find the temperature to be acceptable?.

 

[Stacky]

just google SKYHERO or youtube it theres loads of info on them with all different FCs etc

if your not keen on ESCs in the arms just make a PDB with ESCs and mount it under the base plate and just run the wires down the inside of arms easy

keith

Yeah easy option. Would be interested to hear if anyone has any issues with the esc's getting hot.

 

[Stacky]

I emailed Sky-Hero about the esc's and temperature and this is the reply.

Hello,
actually, more than 1500 of our frames are flying around in the world... and no any failure due to ESC overheating has been reported...
simply use ESC with enough power for your motor setup, most of the time 40A ESC are used...

Best regars,
Yves


He does make a point about the size of the esc's and I have found in my own waterproof prototypes that increasing the size of the esc's does help reduce the temperatures when they are enclosed in a sealed spaced.

 

[jes1111]

Putting an ESC in an unventilated space will most certainly make it runner hotter than it would with an airflow. No electronic components like heat or vibration - without these two factors electronic devices would have a more or less infinite life. The capacitors will be the most vulnerable component - the most common reason for ESC failure is the capacitors overheating and bursting.

Also, over-specing the ESCs won't always work. Some ESC designs actually have to work harder (i.e. generate more heat) at partial throttle settings than at full throttle - so using a bigger version of such a design would actually worsen the problem.

The fact that no overheating failures have been reported is because the frames haven't been in use long enough.... yet Give it another few months

 

[Stacky]

Well with respect to over-specing esc's, I have done it and saw a noticeable difference so getting the right esc for this would be important.

have to add one thing though, in one of the youtube videos i saw they were using 3536 size motors and a 40amp esc really isnt over-specing the esc for this size motor, those motors can draw decent currents when hard throttle is used. I do wonder if they did actually test for this.

Putting an ESC in an unventilated space will most certainly make it runner hotter than it would with an airflow. No electronic components like heat or vibration - without these two factors electronic devices would have a more or less infinite life. The capacitors will be the most vulnerable component - the most common reason for ESC failure is the capacitors overheating and bursting.

Also, over-specing the ESCs won't always work. Some ESC designs actually have to work harder (i.e. generate more heat) at partial throttle settings than at full throttle - so using a bigger version of such a design would actually worsen the problem.

The fact that no overheating failures have been reported is because the frames haven't been in use long enough.... yet Give it another few months

 

[Earl E Adobtr]

For what it's worth, the funnest and smoothest flying I get is with gopro on my NazaV2 f450 with tiger motors. If I could set the exposure on that camera, I'd fly that the majority of the time in narrow mode. It's so much fun to fly when there isn't much wind......

I'm going to switch gimbles this afternoon and try to get a couple tuning flights in on my x8 w/ XAircraft. Maybe it's my gimbal settings, This stuff is just confusing.

10-15 mph wind and NAZA M Ver2 = instability no matter where the gains are set but the bl gimbal saves it from being a total bust. Now that I'm thoroughly familiar with the NAZA, I'm reinstalling the HFP + GPS today and plan to run some comparison tests. The thing, I really think, is superior about NAZA besides the GPS is height hold. I've had three HFP boards and every one of them had this issue, where constant throttle input is necessary to hold a certain elevation. I always thought it was my crappy flying skills until I started using the NAZA M system.

 

[Stacky]

10-15 mph wind and NAZA M Ver2 = instability no matter where the gains are set but the bl gimbal saves it from being a total bust. Now that I'm thoroughly familiar with the NAZA, I'm reinstalling the HFP + GPS today and plan to run some comparison tests. The thing, I really think, is superior about NAZA besides the GPS is height hold. I've had three HFP boards and every one of them had this issue, where constant throttle input is necessary to hold a certain elevation. I always thought it was my crappy flying skills until I started using the NAZA M system.

Yeah if there is one thing left on the HFP board to sort out its still this. I get decent performance out of mine for stills but its still not as good as a NAZA or others.

 

[workshop]

Even a $100 MultiWii EZ3,0 from Witespy NAILS the GPS functions.

 

[Earl E Adobtr]

Even a $100 MultiWii EZ3,0 from Witespy NAILS the GPS functions.

and don't forget reduced real estate. just remounting those honkers on my quad today kinda shocked me

 

[workshop]

So the Sky-Hero is not a HoverFly product but somebody's else's product with an HFP stuffed into it? Well that is a disappointment. Not very innovative or "big"...

 

[workshop]

I have found in my own waterproof prototypes that increasing the size of the esc's does help reduce the temperatures when they are enclosed in a sealed spaced.

Ditto... Vastly overrate ESCs in a sealed environment...

 

[Av8Chuck]

I don't get it? The Sky Hero is cool I guess, $600 is kind of pricey for a frame no matter how fancy it is. Plus I don't see what HFPro has to do with it?

 

[jes1111]

And I bet some users will think "Hey! I'll remove the heatshrink so they stay cooler inside those carbon-fibre tubes!"

 

[Aerovideo]

and don't forget reduced real estate. just remounting those honkers on my quad today kinda shocked me

Haha... yes, the HFPro boards are HUGE, they need to be much smaller and enclosed. It would make them much easier to work with.

I have to admit I've begun reading up on APM, they look interesting.

 

[Stacky]

Haha... yes, the HFPro boards are HUGE, they need to be much smaller and enclosed. It would make them much easier to work with.

I have to admit I've begun reading up on APM, they look interesting.

I just recently sent them an email mentioning the size of the boards. the fact the port pins connections come in from the side also adds to the overall space needed for the board. Size is becoming an issue for me on my waterproof builds and needing a bigger enclosure for the electronics that is water tight just adds to the weight. Unfortunately my experience with my CC3D boards has been they arent as reliable and so for this sort of application I cant risk them. So maybe the APM or the new Xaircraft FC might be an option.

 

[Earl E Adobtr]

Haha... yes, the HFPro boards are HUGE, they need to be much smaller and enclosed. It would make them much easier to work with.

I have to admit I've begun reading up on APM, they look interesting.

I know that perked up my ears as well. I flew my folder with the HFP setup today and I must say, spectacular feel compared to the NAZA M. I don't know, there's just something almost undefinable about the feel of that board. That said, I don't think I would be flying through any holes in trees fpv with it - just not precise enough on height hold for those types of maneuvers.

 

[workshop]

http://www.sky-hero.com/downloads/Spyder.pdf (see 1:00 onwards)

It's such a daft idea I had to double-check. It's right there in the build manual. Two ESCs enclosed within each arm - no ventilation at all :dejection:

http://www.sky-hero.com/downloads/Spyder.pdf

Not to mention the fact that EVERY ESC manufacturer cautions against short motor wires and long battery wires. Adding battery wire length adds inductance which increases switching spikes on the FET rails. That why capacitors are added to the battery side of the ESC. The three motor wires can be as long as one needs.

 

[Av8Chuck]

Not to mention the fact that EVERY ESC manufacturer cautions against short motor wires and long battery wires. Adding battery wire length adds inductance which increases switching spikes on the FET rails. That why capacitors are added to the battery side of the ESC. The three motor wires can be as long as one needs.

Thanks for that information. What is considered long battery wires? My ESC's are mounted external on the boom, motor wires are about 7", battery wires are about 12". I've never had any problems related to this that I know of. I thought it was better to have the ESC in the prop wash for cooling. So is it better to have the ESC much closer to the battery?

Kind of related to this question, do the capacitors make noise when discharged? My Hex sounds like it has a rattle but there's nothing loos on it, it sounds like its coming from the motors or ESC's, its intermittent and doesn't always come from the same motors and ESC's. Its always done it so I thought it was normal.

 

[RTRyder]

Thanks for that information. What is considered long battery wires? My ESC's are mounted external on the boom, motor wires are about 7", battery wires are about 12". I've never had any problems related to this that I know of. I thought it was better to have the ESC in the prop wash for cooling. So is it better to have the ESC much closer to the battery?

The answer to that is, the shorter the input wire the better it is. Within the reality of how a multirotor is constructed you may need to have a few inches of wire leading up to the ESC, the best approach is to keep the wires as short as you can and try to route them away from other electronics. I typically mount ESCs on the boom on many of my builds though in those instances I generally use a power distribution board that allows the power connections to the ESCs to remain relatively short, I like to keep the wires going in shorter than the wires going out to the motor.

That said, I have done builds where the ESC was entirely within an enclosed body or dome, the way I dealt with the cooling issue was to remove the shrink wrap and use some Arctic Silver thermal epoxy to attach heatsinks to the FETS then recover with shrinkwrap after which I cut away the area covering the heatsink. In the four multis I currently have setup that way the ESCs stay well within operating temps even under heavy use in 90 plus degrees ambient temperatures. They do get hot but not nearly as much as if they had no heatsink and remained wrapped in plastic.

Ken

 

[workshop]

Thanks for that information. What is considered long battery wires? My ESC's are mounted external on the boom, motor wires are about 7", battery wires are about 12". I've never had any problems related to this that I know of. I thought it was better to have the ESC in the prop wash for cooling. So is it better to have the ESC much closer to the battery?

Kind of related to this question, do the capacitors make noise when discharged? My Hex sounds like it has a rattle but there's nothing loos on it, it sounds like its coming from the motors or ESC's, its intermittent and doesn't always come from the same motors and ESC's. Its always done it so I thought it was normal.

The maximum length of battery wires is based on the manufacturer. Castle Creations designs their capacitor suppression for 12" wires. One can offset long battery wires with more capacitance but keeping them as short as possible is the best design route.

Thermal dissipation and cooling are important too. Overrating the ESC can eliminate the need for active cooling (in prop wash). Sealed environments are possible to engineer but require thoughtful thermal practices.

No extra noise with Caps - the caps are absorbing spikes and releasing on a time constant based on the value of the capacitor.

jeffparisse