R&D Hex for Survey/Imaging/Conservation

[crayfellow]

Something is wrong with my eCalc subscription at the moment but once I get that straightened I can plug some numbers in for you and will post.

awesome, thanks. I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually, just being obsessive trying to understand every detail. I think my config is a pretty common one aside from adding custom sensors/imagers so we could cook up an AUW pretty easily.

For now we can assume KDE 3510 475kv, t-motor cf 14"x4.8 prop. I will try to figure out if I can use a more 'garden variety' ESC, which would free up funds for backup props or something.

 

[Motopreserve]

I think the justification for the KDE ESCs to go with the motors is that they have been tested specifically together. I have had some issues with other brands of motors not working with particular ESCs.

That said, the cost is much more than other options. And some people have had good luck with 3rd party ESCs and KDE motors.

Tundra, you still loving HobbyWing?

 

[Mactadpole]

Here you go. I just left my numbers in there for most of it except motors. If you go InfinityMR route that is more weight and you are including an FPV setup which I don't have that adds some more weight too.

I wouldn't worry much about the max. temp warning too much as you won't be flying with it wide open but if you are in a hot place and with proposed additional weight this may be an issue.

I'll defer my overall judgement to others who are more experienced and knowledgable.
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[crayfellow]

Alright here's a rabbit hole for you guys. Some related questions:

1. Many people power gimbal/vtx/etc. using a separate battery. For me if I'm buying expensive 6S batteries I'd like to keep it simple and just use BEC to power those, and I guess an LC filter to avoid noise. Am I missing something?
2. Assuming I run 6S (seems pretty well locked in at this point), I have a number of power considerations:
   1. Pixhawk power module: will require an Attopilot 180A module in the place of the standard one, so if I run 2x batts this would be on one of them as Mactadpole describes.
   2. Power for Pixhawk/Rx: should this be a separate BEC for redundancy?
   3. Power for 12V (gimbal, gimbal controller, Vtx): BEC or separate battery?
3. If I use Attopilot to pixhawk as power module should I also have Taranis voltage monitoring? Mactadpole I think you mentioned you have this on your "other" battery?

If we need 5V and 12V BEC, do we use the same unit for this, or separate? What are some that are known to be reliable? This seems extremely important to me since a failure could mean... failure.

 

[crayfellow]

I wouldn't worry much about the max. temp warning too much as you won't be flying with it wide open but if you are in a hot place and with proposed additional weight this may be an issue.

Thank you for checking!! Would a lower kv motor or something else best account for that?

 

[Mactadpole]

Thank you for checking!! Would a lower kv motor or something else best account for that?

If I change the motor cooling to good then all is fine. I just noticed hover throttle is at 36% so that gives you room for additional weight with loss of flight time of course.

 

[crayfellow]

If I change the motor cooling to good then all is fine. I just noticed hover throttle is at 36% so that gives you room for additional weight with loss of flight time of course.

seems like using all those same numbers and going from 3510-475kv to 3520-400kv opens things up, The motors only cost a little more, but we'd also (according to KDE) need the crazy 55A ESC's so altogether the cost goes up a LOT.

Otherwise... smaller prop? I'll try to figure out AUW vs. yours but I'm sure it's just as you said, pretty much the same as yours with a bit more for GH4 vs. Sony, maybe gimbal, etc.

 

[fltundra]

awesome, thanks. I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually, just being obsessive trying to understand every detail. I think my config is a pretty common one aside from adding custom sensors/imagers so we could cook up an AUW pretty easily.

For now we can assume KDE 3510 475kv, t-motor cf 14"x4.8 prop. I will try to figure out if I can use a more 'garden variety' ESC, which would free up funds for backup props or something.

I don't run the Kde esc's. Castle mr 35's, and they work perfectly with the KDE's. If i need larger,
Phoenix Edge Lite series are the way to go with full logging.

 

[fltundra]

I think the justification for the KDE ESCs to go with the motors is that they have been tested specifically together. I have had some issues with other brands of motors not working with particular ESCs.

That said, the cost is much more than other options. And some people have had good luck with 3rd party ESCs and KDE motors.

Tundra, you still loving HobbyWing?

Hobby wing??

 

[Motopreserve]

Sorry. Meant the castle's. I knew you were a castle guy. Brain freeze

 

[Mactadpole]

seems like using all those same numbers and going from 3510-475kv to 3520-400kv opens things up, The motors only cost a little more, but we'd also (according to KDE) need the crazy 55A ESC's so altogether the cost goes up a LOT.

Otherwise... smaller prop? I'll try to figure out AUW vs. yours but I'm sure it's just as you said, pretty much the same as yours with a bit more for GH4 vs. Sony, maybe gimbal, etc.

I'm thinking about your AUW and its going to be significantly more than mine. I bet your camera setup alone (GH4 w/lens) is going to add a minimum of 400 g over what I am. I think the InfinityMR is also about 500 g heavier (or more) than the Quadframe V2 gimbal.

I think you need to think about going up in prop size.

 

[crayfellow]

I don't run the Kde esc's. Castle mr 35's, and they work perfectly with the KDE's. If i need larger,
Phoenix Edge Lite series are the way to go with full logging.

cool. These guys? I think they may make the KDE ESC's, no? So the HW may be identical.

 

[crayfellow]

I think you need to think about going up in prop size.

for this rig I am limited to 14" props due to the arms I ordered.
I could always use these for a fun quad or something and get longer arms to allow for bigger props. How big are you thinking, and would that be the most cost effective way to cut that temp?

 

[fltundra]

cool. These guys? I think they may make the KDE ESC's, no? So the HW may be identical.

yep

 

[fltundra]

Here you go. I just left my numbers in there for most of it except motors. If you go InfinityMR route that is more weight and you are including an FPV setup which I don't have that adds some more weight too.

I wouldn't worry much about the max. temp warning too much as you won't be flying with it wide open but if you are in a hot place and with proposed additional weight this may be an issue.

I'll defer my overall judgement to others who are more experienced and knowledgable.
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View attachment 24650

Your over propped in this config. need bigger motor.
Correction: I ran your figures and this is closer to where your at.

 

[crayfellow]

Your over propped in this config. need bigger motor.

or smaller prop, right? I need to decide:

• go to, say, a SunnySky motor with a higher spec and cheaper 40A ESC for example in the place of KDE (impact: potential risk due to components which may be lower grade, more noise, harder to balance, etc.?)
• step down to maybe 12" prop? (In my inexperience I don't fully comprehend the overall impact this will have)
• bite the bullet and go to KDE 3520-400kv motor and crazy expensive KDE 55A ESC (impact: $$$$$ on a project that is already out of pocket)

am I missing an option?

 

[crayfellow]

I'm thinking about your AUW and its going to be significantly more than mine. I bet your camera setup alone (GH4 w/lens) is going to add a minimum of 400 g over what I am. I think the InfinityMR is also about 500 g heavier (or more) than the Quadframe V2 gimbal.

I think you need to think about going up in prop size.

I know the camera will be heavier (body will be, but I'm not sure between Rokinon 12mm vs. Sigma 19mm glass, will check). But the gimbals should be about equivalent, I would think.

 

[crayfellow]

how do we reconcile "Good" cooling, since in ecalc this is the difference between having a workable config and not?

 

[Mactadpole]

for this rig I am limited to 14" props due to the arms I ordered.
I could always use these for a fun quad or something and get longer arms to allow for bigger props. How big are you thinking, and would that be the most cost effective way to cut that temp?

I was thinking the 3520's with 15" props.

 

[Mactadpole]

I know the camera will be heavier (body will be, but I'm not sure between Rokinon 12mm vs. Sigma 19mm glass, will check). But the gimbals should be about equivalent, I would think.

Quadframe v2 is ~670 g and infinitymr is 1120 g.
multistar batteries are slightly lighter than tattu.
and you plan on having fpv equipment.

What im getting at is all this adds up to additional weight fast. In my mind a research copter needs to fly longer than one for aerial photos and video. How much do you care about flight time vs. the shot(s) your trying to get.