Point and shoot alternative to GoPro for night video

[Dune]

I need to shoot some video at night for my project. My eventual set-up will probably be a hexa, gimbal, and Nex-5N or similar camera, but for now I am going to be flying a f450 kit with camera hard-mounted. As this is my first multi-rotor experience, I'll be using it to learn to fly and to do some video tests for the type of shots I want to get.

Since the GoPro's performance at night is poor, can anyone recommend an alternative?

It would need to conform to the following characteristics:

• small and light
• at least 720p
• manual exposure control preferably, some control would be nice
• GoPro price-range. Not more than $500.
• nothing weird like digital stabilization that would make it ill-suited to aerial video

I have an "hd wing camera" from hobby king and a keychain camera. While these are "720", I'm looking for better quality video. I'm thinking there is a point and shoot out there for me. I'm not expecting DSLR-like exposure at night, just something. Some detail under streetlights, etc.

Video out for daytime FPV would be a nice bonus, but not necessary for this particular task.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Dune]

For posterity:

I am using the Canon Powershot ELPH 100. It fits the bill stated above and performs surprisingly well. All it's really missing is manual control in video mode, but for the night shots in question, I think I would be shooting wide open anyway.

 

[thepelell]

i have the 220hs which should be similar to yours, mine performs terribly from a lens point of view, but i think that some crashes may have damaged it because at times it gives soft images even locked down on tripod...
anyway, you should be able lo lock focus and exposure in video mod. Before hitting record, half press shutter and press macro button to activate focus lock, you should see AFL on screen. Half press shutter and press +- button and you activate AE Lock. Its not true manual , but at least it doesn't "pump".

 

[Dune]

Dude, right on! I thought I had picked apart the manual, too. You have to remember to set the ISO manually as well...once you do that, this works great.

Have you ever done custom firmware on a camera? The stuff over at CDHK piqued my interest. For video & my setup, there's not much this would get me I dont think. It might allow for more options of what parameters you would be able to control remotely...haven't looked into it too closely, though. A build for the ELPH 300 was released last November.

Thanks!

 

[thepelell]

yes been messing around with CHDK in last month. Mainly for timelapse, as i loaded an intervalometer script. For what concerns video, you have a good option to change compression settings, and on screen you get a estimate of remaining time. At 4Gb file it will stop recording. As i said, i can't really use mine on my copter because of lens vibration.. i can get good jello-free images from a gopro in R5 mode, but i can't get anything sharp from the 220HS, which is a shame because ability lo lock exposure and not have that stupid fisheye look from gopro is a very good plus. It must be something to do with inbuilt optical stabilization that's not compatible with my machine, cos i once tried taking pics with intervalometer, and even with 1/800 shutter and steady flying, pics were soft and blurred....

 

[Dune]

Hmm I would be disappointed if I couldn't get rid of lens vibration. I've been using a Naza and have attributed the vibration to mounting the camera on the flimsy frame protrusion. I was hoping once I mounted it elsewhere and got some good balanced props on there I would see it go away. I'll try it still and we'll see...

Yeah, damn it looks like there isn't a version of CDHK for my camera currently. That would have factored into my decision of which model to get...luckily I think a 4gb file is longer than most of my flight times, so I think I'll get by for now and hope that the devs get to the ELPH 100 eventually (as it is now they have the ELPH 300).

 

[Dune]

Are you 100% sure that lens vibration was the culprit, and not stuff moving around internally (image stabilization)?

I was investigating whether CDHK could make the lens stay open so I could glue it in such a way that eliminated the play that is naturally there, and someone brought up this point. GoPro's have neither digital not optical IS i believe, and until I have more info I have to believe it could be either one.

 

[thepelell]

i don't know exactly what is going on, it could be something with image stabilization; i'm not the only one with problems with canon point and shoot cams.

 

[Kilby]

I've always heard that you should turn IS off entirely.

 

[Bowley]

@thepelell: I have interest in th e220/elph300. concerned with your reports on lens vibration, do you attribute this to the damaged? and you have IS on. Is it an option to disable IS.
Anyone else using a Canon Ixus 220 HS/ Elph 300?

 

[Bowley]

@ Dune, hows your elph 100 performing?

 

[Dune]

I've always heard that you should turn IS off entirely.

I'm no camera expert. But from what I've read (from a bunch of secondary sources) there is such a thing as optical image stabilization and digital stabilization.

Optical = you can't shut off.
Digital = you shut off (it's a Menu option), you can even switch into different Digital IS modes.

I was trying to find some hard sources, but discovered IS is a bit of a rabbit hole. I read for a long while but am having trouble finding actionable information for our esoteric application and feel experimentation would be an easier and more direct way to find a good solution. To the best of my knowledge, optical IS is analogous to a mechanical mechanism -- like springs. Therefore, if it is responsible for an amount of vibration, you're going to have to go at it with mounting technique, balancing, etc...

And it sounds like thepelell thinks the chances of fixing that are not good. I have a couple things I am going to try this week. I'm going to take my best stab giving it a proper mount and live with that for now. I already have the camera, oh well!

 

[Dune]

@ Dune, hows your elph 100 performing?

See the on my first post in this thread:
http://www.multirotorforums.com/sho...ng-cameras-what-goes-between-camera-and-frame

I will get around to testing with some balanced 10" APC's in the next couple days. Testing a few different sized props and different batteries (3s/4s) later in the week, plus I bought a gopro mount, tripod screw adapter, and a gel pad like the one kloner recommended in that thread.

Taking the shotgun approach. I'll report back.

thepelell if you can link us to other discussions about these cameras, I'm sure we'd be interested.

A response from my CDHK forum post:

Are you certain it's the lens that's causing your problem ? Even if you glue the external bits down, there's probably still stuff inside that could move around (the IS stuff, for example)

A better solution might be a more vibration damping mount.

 

[Bowley]

Thanks Dune, I think I,ll swerve the Ixus then. I've been looking at the pentax Optio VS20, 20x zoom and CCD sensor. Must check it's got deselectabe IS, it interfaces directly with gentLED also

 

[Macsgrafs]

I agree, turn IS OFF!!!! It was designed for the human movement as such & not the rapid vibration you find on multi-copters.

Ross

 

[thepelell]

i don't remember where i read about other problems with other canon cams, probably aerial photo forum on RCG.
You can turn IS off on the 220HS, but being optical kind of stabilization, it will always have the lens moving, it is never really off.
Since it was new, i kept getting mixed results, sometimes it was ok, sometines image was all blurry. Tried turning IS on or off but to no avail.
It seems to suffer high frequency vibes, i don't get jello, on the same mount i can use a gopro in R5 mode and get clean images.. I have never tried using the best method of absorbing vibes: weight. Trying to attach it directly to a lipo might be a good solution...

 

[Dune]

Someone needs to take this to a digital photography forum. I keep fishing for information about the optical IS and getting conflicting results - what type it is, what the type means for our app, whether you can turn if off...