Naza for FPV & 10" prop

[Jessestr]

Hi there

I just tested my new setup F450 with Naza (manual) on 4S 11" prop... (2814-11 710KV Tiger Motor)
and I had this sick result of way too much power!

I switched to a F450 because TBS Disco can't handle 11" props. So if I have THAT much power with 11" .. 10" shouldn't be such a difference?
So manual mode is much more powerful I've noticed but can I get the same power in atti? If I want to make some nice images or video?
(That's question one) So maybe I can go finally back to my lovely TBS Disco.

Then question two. As you can see in the video.. Manual mode feels sloppy.. Like it's a jelly. I mean if I fly with my multiwii sports quad in acro / manual.. and I do a movement it locks in place instantly. But if I do it with a Naza I have to manipulate the controls much more. And gains only work for the atti mode right? So how can I fix this.
Example: If I go left and let the stick go it should keep going left but I can see it still rolls to the left more than I did.. like a car with bad tires it slips and hard to handle. It should have more traction.

Thanks!

 

[kloner]

if the props are too small it'll rev towards the end of what the motors max rev is and might not be able to correct right, you'd have to bolt them on to find out or talk to somebody else running it. atti uses a governor type thing inside so that when it needs to run a motor full power to self level, it can. manual mode will burn almost twice the amps as atti, gps mode uses even less. For instance, i've seen 100 amps max in manual, 70 amps in atti, 50 amps in atti gps

the top row of gains that says Basic Gain is all about the manual mode, only one in the top row not associated with manual mode is altitude. Read the manual, it explains it pretty decent in the latest versions. higher gains have less of what your complaining about, again the manual talks about it

Put a camera on the quads shaddow and hover low lightly reving like you did and yaw right in the frame. it'll show us what your props look like and how free there spinning

 

[Jessestr]

Aha I see. Didn't knew that it would give more throttle to level itself.

if the props are too small it'll rev towards the end of what the motors max rev is and might not be able to correct right, you'd have to bolt them on to find out or talk to somebody else running it. atti uses a governor type thing inside so that when it needs to run a motor full power to self level, it can. manual mode will burn almost twice the amps as atti, gps mode uses even less. For instance, i've seen 100 amps max in manual, 70 amps in atti, 50 amps in atti gps

That's what I didn't knew. Thought it was for atti only since it was titled "Autopilot". Will get my hands on!

the top row of gains that says Basic Gain is all about the manual mode, only one in the top row not associated with manual mode is altitude. Read the manual, it explains it pretty decent in the latest versions. higher gains have less of what your complaining about, again the manual talks about it

Could you be more specific? I don't really know what you are asking me to do.
If this video can help you.. It's filmed in ATTI mode.
Tell me what to do and I'll give it.

Put a camera on the quads shaddow and hover low lightly reving like you did and yaw right in the frame. it'll show us what your props look like and how free there spinning

 

[kloner]

that was good enough. better props would help you........ yours haul but to looking stopped to hauling but, not real smooth in transition. there slowflyer type to, them are pretty sloppy feeling, hard to balance cause they change everyflight, so flexible and thin

 

[Jessestr]

You mean I should get better props?
I just use these for tests (size testing) and if I'm happy I put Graupner Eprops on it..

Those props were unbalanced by the way.

 

[kloner]

it'll make it more locked in feeling, no so sloppy especialy in manual when they got all that power

 

[Jessestr]

Thanks. Only got 9" around here.

also will try the gains tonight.

 

[kloner]

try it. look for midstick hovering in manual

electricwingman usually has em over by you, UK

 

[Jessestr]

Thanks. If I do 50% throttle in manual you get the result I posted in my first post. 50% and up it goes. I don't want to try 60% .. Think it should be lost in no time.

 

[RTRyder]

Yes, those motors are way more than you need even for a TBS Discovery. I used the Avroto 2814 on my QAV500 when I first set it up and the QAV is considerably heavier than my TBS Discovery, they were far too much motor for even that frame carrying a 4S 5000 pack with GoPro, Naza/GPS, Immersion 600mw vTx, and Remzibi OSD on Graupner 10 inch props.

In order to fly either a Naza or WKM in manual mode you need to crank the basic pitch and roll gains up far more than is needed to fly in ATTI mode AND you'll probably need to setup at least one flight mode with a fair amount of expo on aileron and elevator to make it controllable even then. The downside to that is if you do then it will fly like crap in ATTI mode since the gains will be too high and you'll get a lot of oscillation even when hovering.

I'm currently flying a Naza/GPS combo on three different frames, a stock F450, a TBS Discovery, and the QAV500. Depending on the frame and motor combo the basic pitch and roll gains are in the 100 to 150% range and the ATTI gains I have setup to be adjustable on the TX with the range of adjustment from roughly 50% up to a max of 140%. The ideal setup is to have both basic pitch and roll and the ATTI pitch and roll setup to be adjustable from the TX in flight if you have a radio with enough channels to do it, that way you can dial it in for the conditions at the moment without having to hookup to a laptop and guess at what the settings should be. If the weather is fairly consistant where you live you could setup the basic pitch and roll on a TX adjustment and try different settings until you find what works best and then set it to that in the Assistant software, then repeat the process for the ATTI gains although I would recommend keeping the ATTI TX adjustable all the time if you plan to fly in that mode, that's what I do with all of mine.

Ken

 

[Jessestr]

Avroto is 750KV right? Mine are 710KV.. Think it's a lot difference but anyways got a deal going on for my TBS frame. So might just get new gear.

Yes, those motors are way more than you need even for a TBS Discovery. I used the Avroto 2814 on my QAV500 when I first set it up and the QAV is considerably heavier than my TBS Discovery, they were far too much motor for even that frame carrying a 4S 5000 pack with GoPro, Naza/GPS, Immersion 600mw vTx, and Remzibi OSD on Graupner 10 inch props.

About the gains.. Mine are 150% Pitch, Yaw, Roll and they are still too sloppy. Power and torque enough. It just feels like the flightcontroller doesn't lock my position fast enough. Will test the gains tomorrow. With knob tuning.

Thanks!

In order to fly either a Naza or WKM in manual mode you need to crank the basic pitch and roll gains up far more than is needed to fly in ATTI mode AND you'll probably need to setup at least one flight mode with a fair amount of expo on aileron and elevator to make it controllable even then. The downside to that is if you do then it will fly like crap in ATTI mode since the gains will be too high and you'll get a lot of oscillation even when hovering.

I'm currently flying a Naza/GPS combo on three different frames, a stock F450, a TBS Discovery, and the QAV500. Depending on the frame and motor combo the basic pitch and roll gains are in the 100 to 150% range and the ATTI gains I have setup to be adjustable on the TX with the range of adjustment from roughly 50% up to a max of 140%. The ideal setup is to have both basic pitch and roll and the ATTI pitch and roll setup to be adjustable from the TX in flight if you have a radio with enough channels to do it, that way you can dial it in for the conditions at the moment without having to hookup to a laptop and guess at what the settings should be. If the weather is fairly consistant where you live you could setup the basic pitch and roll on a TX adjustment and try different settings until you find what works best and then set it to that in the Assistant software, then repeat the process for the ATTI gains although I would recommend keeping the ATTI TX adjustable all the time if you plan to fly in that mode, that's what I do with all of mine.

Ken

 

[kloner]

my 2814's do exactly what his did on the discovery,,,,,,,,, higher kv motors, but the things got a variable stick, it doesn't have to lean all 45 degrees and it doesn't have to eat into an 80 amp draw, it has a slower speed with less forward

GPS mode i can't get it to do it, won't pass 50 amps, put it in atti and it does it 3/4 stick or more and in manual, it just does it. That fast wa,wa,wa,wa,wa wobble bit the kens qav did.

my 2810 motors didnt do it at all, 100 less watts a piece, but alot lighter, almost a 1/4 lbs less in just motors

Get trappys motors he offered you when it happens, They'll work killer, garunteed. There 2216 i think, but there the same kinda setup as my 2810 watt wise

 

[Jessestr]

Thanks for the advice.
Was calculating the costs and seems to be the best option to accept Trappy's offer to me. Will give me the opportunity to keep my Discovery and use my F450 as AP/AV.
My 710KV 2814 will have to carry a gimbal later on and a GoPro or something.

Will KK2.0 work well with the Disco?

my 2814's do exactly what his did on the discovery,,,,,,,,, higher kv motors, but the things got a variable stick, it doesn't have to lean all 45 degrees and it doesn't have to eat into an 80 amp draw, it has a slower speed with less forward

GPS mode i can't get it to do it, won't pass 50 amps, put it in atti and it does it 3/4 stick or more and in manual, it just does it. That fast wa,wa,wa,wa,wa wobble bit the kens qav did.

my 2810 motors didnt do it at all, 100 less watts a piece, but alot lighter, almost a 1/4 lbs less in just motors

Get trappys motors he offered you when it happens, They'll work killer, garunteed. There 2216 i think, but there the same kinda setup as my 2810 watt wise

 

[kloner]

there already listed, any day now

http://www.team-blacksheep.com/products/prod:750kv_30aesc

 

[Jessestr]

No that are other motors.

It are new black motors from RCTiger branded as Team Blacksheep..

 

[kloner]

those are rctimer,,,, your saying he has tiger motors?

 

[RTRyder]

Thanks for the advice.
Was calculating the costs and seems to be the best option to accept Trappy's offer to me. Will give me the opportunity to keep my Discovery and use my F450 as AP/AV.
My 710KV 2814 will have to carry a gimbal later on and a GoPro or something.

Will KK2.0 work well with the Disco?

Depends on what you want to do with it, people are flying them on the QAV500 and say they work great on that. I havethe KK2.0 on a DJI F330 frame with Alpha 370 1340kv motors and 8 inch props, the thing is an absolute rocketship and insanely quick on the sticks but the needed stability for video recording is lacking IMO, might be less so on a larger frame with slower motors.

I think the Disco works very nicely with the Naza, haven't felt the need to try any of the other flight controllers I have sitting around and that's a fairly comprehensive list. I have been slightly tempted to try an MK board with an I2C converter but that's about it, got everything I would need to do it but the Disco is working quite well as-is and I don't want to mess with it. Only thing I am going to do is change the motors and ESCs, I've finally hit the limit of the DJI motors and ESCs. Yesterday I found myself flying with the throttle at or near max for most of the last flight of the day, problem with that is there's no headroom for the system to compensate using motor speed so the end result is hard and fast oscillations in steep turns or flat out speed runs that it can correct for nicely at lower throttle settings when the motors aren't spinning full bore. I could lower the throttle endpoint to give the ESC some rpm to use above max throttle but if I'm finding I want more speed with the throttle maxxed out as it is then I doubt I'd be happy with less throttle.

I've got a set of slightly bigger motors and some reflashed 30A ESCs that will probably find their way onto the Discovery before the weekend, that should make things interesting...

Ken

 

[Jessestr]

From their facebook page.. And he mentioned it as RCTiger Motor

 

[Jessestr]

Well the usage is just Sport FPV. It will run on my TBS Disco for Sport FPV usage. No video recording.

I can't afford a second Naza since I'm a student.

I planned my Tiger Motor for the TBS but then I figured it out I wouldn't have had enough thrust on 10" so I switched to the F450 who is lighter and can spin up to 11".

Depends on what you want to do with it, people are flying them on the QAV500 and say they work great on that. I havethe KK2.0 on a DJI F330 frame with Alpha 370 1340kv motors and 8 inch props, the thing is an absolute rocketship and insanely quick on the sticks but the needed stability for video recording is lacking IMO, might be less so on a larger frame with slower motors.

I think the Disco works very nicely with the Naza, haven't felt the need to try any of the other flight controllers I have sitting around and that's a fairly comprehensive list. I have been slightly tempted to try an MK board with an I2C converter but that's about it, got everything I would need to do it but the Disco is working quite well as-is and I don't want to mess with it. Only thing I am going to do is change the motors and ESCs, I've finally hit the limit of the DJI motors and ESCs. Yesterday I found myself flying with the throttle at or near max for most of the last flight of the day, problem with that is there's no headroom for the system to compensate using motor speed so the end result is hard and fast oscillations in steep turns or flat out speed runs that it can correct for nicely at lower throttle settings when the motors aren't spinning full bore. I could lower the throttle endpoint to give the ESC some rpm to use above max throttle but if I'm finding I want more speed with the throttle maxxed out as it is then I doubt I'd be happy with less throttle.

I've got a set of slightly bigger motors and some reflashed 30A ESCs that will probably find their way onto the Discovery before the weekend, that should make things interesting...

Ken

 

[kloner]

Thats bad to the bone. i want a set