Home Inspector in Arizona Looking at Drone Options for Roof Inspections

[Accupro]

I received an AR Drone for Christmas as a toy but with the idea that it might lead to the possibility of doing my roof inspections for residential real estate using a drone. I realize we have this FAA issue at the moment in the US to overcome, if used for commercial purposes!

I tried the AR for this purpose and ordered a couple of options to help, specifically a mod to tilt the camera at different angles (manually) and some bearings in lieu of bushings to minimize the jello. Typically when I do the inspection report I include photos, not video and I found a free app for the iPad that would allow me to pull photos, crop, etc. from the video stream I took from the AR. So things were kinda looking up as the quality of the photos from the HD video feed from the AR was pretty good.

So I realize that I will need to see really good detail as I fly over the roof and then maybe go over and get closer to the roof to get the photo I want. Problem is you really can't see/focus on the iPad image in direct sunlight which would be typical for me. So I thought I could add goggles in lieu of the iPad image. I also added a WiFi range extender as I was running into losing the bird from time-to-time even when fairly close. The range extender helped and would probably give me enough range for a typical residential inspection but I was starting to get pixelization of the video feed at the property extremes.

Anyway I kinda got bit by the bug and thought this is stupid if your going to go for this you really need a real ship and RC control to get better range and quality video. So I have been searching around the web for awhile and found this forum and really like the audience and the timely help everyone is willing to give and also a more domestic US flavor. Also read Bart's entire thread on the DJI 450/550 and loved it. I am fairly good with my hands and the kit and resulting build does not scare me and I think I have all the tools required, soldering skills, etc.

So I'm kinda thinking a 6 motor 550 as I will need a gimble and camera setup but I have a few questions:

1. Are there more obvious frames to use instead of the DJI's for aerial photography? I see one option is using a folding frame to allow you to pack the bird or at least get it into a smaller footprint for traveling.
2. I have seen some cameras that zoom which I think would be the way to go for my application but what options exist that would allow you to control zoom remotely?
3. I see 9 channel FC's but would it be difficult to find more like 12 channels. I'm assuming I need a minimum of like 7 or 8 to get all the benefits of the NAZA but I would also want to control a tilt servo and zoom? Is this sometimes a function of using three transmitters/receivers?
4. Anyone have any recommendations for goggles? The Vuzix HD 1200's are pretty new for $500 and look like that might be the ticket http://www.vuzix.com/consumer/products_wrap_1200dx/

Any suggestions or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

 

[SoCal Blur]

The channels really don't apply to the FC... I think you mean Tx/Rx. The FC mainly controls the motors. the extra features you want come from the Rx. This radio setup will get you up to 16 channels. The recever that it comes with can go up to 16 channels even though its call an X8R.

http://www.getfpv.com/frsky-taranis...h&adtype=pla&gclid=CLet6tLalbwCFc2Tfgod8DEA-w

If you're determined to go with NAZA then you might as well get all DJI stuff, but there is a whole world of FC's with GPS out there that you may want to investigate before deciding on NAZA.

Tarot makes a Carbon Fiber Hexa folding frame that's pretty nice and runs about $160 or so.

 

[Accupro]

Thanks for your input!! I see folks tend to include their current ride as a signature, thats cool gives me a point of reference.

Is this just a hobby for you or are you considering commercial opportunities?

 

[SoCal Blur]

Thanks for your input!! I see folks tend to include their current ride as a signature, thats cool gives me a point of reference.

Is this just a hobby for you or are you considering commercial opportunities?

At the moment, its just a hobby - primarily so that I can shoot some nice video. I'm a licensed helicopter pilot in real life, though I don't fly very often anymore. I used to strap a video camera in the passenger's seat and get some nice video. Using a multirotor to do it is much more economical and fun!

 

[Accupro]

So you mentioned The NAZA and if so you should stick with the DJI frame, I'm assuming because it makes sense as they are both manufactured by the same company and thus somewhat optimized to that frame? I'm in the process of looking at the Tarot at the moment, looks like you prefer the MultiWii FC, any particular reason one is better than another?

 

[kloner]

if it was me and wanted to just fly a hero, i'd look at a tbs disco pro. for $600 frame it has a brushless gimbal, alexmos controller, osd info to keep you out of trouble runs great on naza and tyranis..... there a really tight all in one package. it lets you put less risk up with less moving parts (quad) so incidents and liability are mitigated. yet it handles wind, packs into small case easily, creates professional looking footage out of the box

watch this one at 3:20, if it had gps hold the thing sits there, you move a little, the disco lets you tilt down the hero and there is a built in preview for it on the fpv coming out of it. it's the next level up from a phantom and is a total solution package. there are alot of users on the web to get help from and tbs in general is easy to deal with customer service wise now.

http://team-blacksheep.com/products/product:237

 

[SoCal Blur]

Kloner's suggestion is a good one as well. I chose multiwii because it is open source and has a lot of flexibility. The downside is that it's not exactly plug and play, you have to do some work, research, etc. I like knowing how things work so essentially building my FC made sense to me. Also, it's inexpensive compared to other FC's with similar features.

Here's what the brains (multiwii & accessories) looked like before it was 'inserted' into my Octo frame:

View attachment 16479

 

[Accupro]

Cool I'll have to check it out, thanks for the input!!

 

[kloner]

difference here is the fc is plug and play, usually,,, it has the voltage regulators, osd, alexmos board inside the frame, it's the plates. Power distro too, inside em is super clean and has very few fail points. There kinda fragille though,,,, there not carbon fiber and aren't really made for crashing so you'd want to get controll of that first.

see all the chips, there all built in, all plug and play, only soldering is the esc's and a main power wire, from there that kit i linked all plugs in

 

[Accupro]

Well it certainly looks complicated but then again when your running eight of anything there is going to be complexity.

Being the newbie that I am, and doing research - I'm wondering about this issue of flight time. For a typical roof inspection I'm thinking I would be fine with say a 15 min. runtime, always more is better but I should easily be able to cover most roofs in probably under 10 min. In reading one of the kit sites they were giving some, I guess you could say rule of thumbs on runtime. Like 20 min. for a quad, 18 min. for hex, and 12 min. for an octo. I never really thought of it that way I was kinda thinking motors, props, batteries, overall built weight, etc. would determine runtime.

So for me I am looking at a gimbal for the camera, not a high end camera, and something that would be relatively steady in a light wind. Originally it looked like a quad would be good, but a hex even better. Now that I saw this rule of thumb I'm thinking I should be trying to stay with a quad which would still easily get the job done and cost less overall. I guess what I'm asking is what the tradeoffs are between quad, hex, and octo other then the obvious bigger is better or more is better than less?

 

[kloner]

those carry any hero so you can go from a white to a black with this one, even a hero2

that's not always the case, but a decent rule of thumb. my hex carries a red for 14 minutes, my octo only did 6-8 minutes, just depends. If you went with a delux one like i build they get up to a half hour in the sky, but there another $1200-$1500 than a kit disco would be....

nicest part about a disco like this is it fits anywhere, as soon as you talk a hex, then a gimbal, your talking about a big rig...

biggest feature i read from all this for what you want to do is probably a really rock solid gps flight controller, in order to have a shot at a pattern. the hero cams have wide lenses so you kinda gotta get close to see much....

 

[Accupro]

Kloner that does look good!! Motors look really big (40 Amp ESC). Everything is set up for GoPro but they do not offer a zoom. Are you just using this for hobby or something else? I asked this earlier and I'm thinking its kinda sounds like a sting "are you a policeman?" I mean I do not work for the FAA!!

So far I have been very fortunate with my AR and have not had any significant crashes, obviously when you get into these more higher end kits you have to really be able to control them to protect your investment!!

 

[kloner]

I an aerial videographer getting into cinematography.... we have somewhat left this level of footage for dslr and up..... but i manufacture kits that make things like that and get em bigger and better and in doing so i dabble in self done demos and editing....

i FPV for fun, fly big cams for living so i got all kinds of crap....

Heros do not zoom. that'd be more like backbone if you wanted hd recording or a security type conveyor belt reading cam like a fed ex or ups line would use. problem there is sd recording is all i know of less than the aircraft with that.

and even then would need a fancy zoom setup that's not really developed yet. the easy way to zoom is to fly closer. in cinema we have follow focus and follow iris and follow zoom that controlls that stuff on a dslr, the systems are over $20k just for the part that does that... it's not something any of these normally have...

but that generates a hell of a payload and nothing you want to send off in somebodys neighborhood doing inspections

I'm not concerned who you work for, your the one that wants to charge for flying, that's the supposed problem and it's yours. I've watched $100k hit the ground, it happens

 

[Accupro]

So just so I understand - would it be reasonable to assume I could use a gimbal with a quad or would I be kinda pushing it?

 

[Accupro]

Sony Zoom Box Camera

This is kinda what I was looking at relative to a zoomable low weight camera with high resolution http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGZ07DhZKt8 I've seen a better datasheet on it but I just grabbed a quick link.

Yea relative to the FAA thing I have talked to an inspector in the midwest who is using an AR drone and has it tethered to the ground with a fishing line. There is actually a company selling an FAA Compliance "kit" which is basically a spool you push into the ground with some "military" grade line that has been "approved" by the FAA. So when you buy their kit ($150) you get a copy of the FAA compliance cert.

Also there is a local company here in town doing aerial photography of high end real estate and how he gets around things is the drone video is free, but he charges for the editing!!

 

[kloner]

again, that is sd and a security type, if sd is good enough then there ya go. high res hd like a hero3 even silver is way more legible to see problems. nothing is sd anymore...here is the differences between the two....

the big clip in the middle is a 690 line sd camera, the little one on the side is a hero

up from that is a pro 3 axis dslr class rig, $10k-$20k rig, $2500 camera...

but then your making movies and needs two people to operate, another observer to do it right...

 

[kloner]

dont fall for the tethering making this any more legal than without, imo it's more dangerous cause you can get caught up in it. Just do what your gonna do and try keeping it on the downlow..... as much as you can, let word of mouth drive your biz and you should do fine, if you pull a local ad on a tv commercial or go getting a habit of crashing, somebody is gonna catch ya on a phone and do it in the wrong spot and they will come knock on your door.... but flat out using your multi to do part of your work like another tool is legit imo

 

[SoCal Blur]

...I guess what I'm asking is what the tradeoffs are between quad, hex, and octo other then the obvious bigger is better or more is better than less?

Here's the primary trade-off. If a motor (or ESC) fails on a quad, it is falling out of the sky, camera, gimbal and all. With a Hex, you have a little redundancy...although it might start to yaw (spin) out of control, you have a chance of landing safely. With an Octo, you might not even notice you lost a motor until you try some maneuvers. The Octo has the best chance of surviving a motor failure... even two, depending on which motors fail.

There are plenty of gimbals available for the GoPro, but as Kloner mentioned, it will be hard to get close detail of the roof because of the wide angle lens of the GoPro.

 

[kloner]

i just bought a stunt cams 5mm lens and they offered a 10mm lens, stock is 2.8mm, that might make a better tool to use like that... stuntcams.com

 

[Accupro]

Well your point about SD is well taken. The AR Drone has a low resolution, maybe SD camera on the bottom (HD in the front) and I was originally thinking I could use that (SD) for the roof inspection but once I got it, no way had to be the forward looking HD camera!!

What I am going to need for sure is a way to "see" the roof surface not necessarily closeup. Based on my knowledge of many thousands of, on the roof, inspections I know what to look for and where the defects are going to be. I typically would take a perspective shot on the roof and then a closeup of the defect. My inspection software allows me to annotate the pictures, point to the problem, include a comment, etc. Some inspectors only take the close up or no picture at all but then everyone is wondering, where is that defect exactly? After thousands of inspections I ask my client at the end "is there anything you want to see, do you have any questions?" and I never really have a question, based on my photos they know exactly what the issues are, the seller of the property can't argue the issue, a roof contractor can pretty much give a quote for the repair based on the pictures.

I'm coming up on 65 years old and looking for a way to extend my business. The number one reason a home inspector fails is falling off the roof, which I have done twice, but not failed yet (minor injury fortunately). I also do large commercial inspections and multi-level garden-style complex's so the ability to "see" the roof without getting up there would be significant.

So I was thinking the zoom feature would be a real benefit. If I had to guess, GoPro will probably offer a zoomable lens in the next 24 months or someone else will, probably digitally controlled. Maybe your platform would work with the GoPro, but I'm thinking I would need to drop down closer to the roof to get my picture and I have seen ground effects with my AR Drone. I've actually landed in a position to grab the shot and then taken back off.

Also I use pictures, not video so I'm not sure how that effects this conversation?