First build :D need some advice please

[Risen91]

Ok so this is going to be my first ever build and I could really use some help on picking out parts, and also advice on putting it all together. I have had a little look into the different parts needed and also have and idea of what I want to build. I'm aiming for a larger quadcopter that can carry a camera (e.g. a GoPro) and has features such such as altitude hold, maybe autonomous flight via waypoint navigation, and also able to return home and land by itself. My budget is around £200-250 although slightly flexible.
The site I started looking for parts on is hobbyking and I have picked out a couple of frames (pretty much by price/reviews/looks) that seem to look promising.

First frame:
http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__24227__Hobbyking_X666_Glass_Fiber_Quadcopter_Frame_666mm.html

Second frame:
http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbykin..._X550_Glass_Fiber_Quadcopter_Frame_550mm.html

Pretty much only prefer the first one because it looks badass :highly_amused: but it is also slightly cheaper. Any other good frames I should look at? really not sure what to look for in a frame.
Again with the flight controller i'm not 100% sure what to look for. What difference does a 3 axis vs a 6 axis gyro make? Do i need to be ready to solder anything? Do I need to code anything?

This is the flight controller I was looking at:
http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbykin...light_Controller_w_FTDI_ATmega_2560_V2_0.html

I had a quick look at the differences between the firmware and Megapirate seems to have a few more features, also I think someone said you can use it with the waypoint software (forgot the name), but any recommendations what I should use?

For the rest of the parts I used the recommendations on the first frames requirements section:
15~25A Brushless ESC x 4
2200~3000mAh 3S 11.1V Lipoly
28-XX 1100~1300KV Brushless motor x 4
8x4~10x4.3 Propeller - 2 standard/2 reverse rotation

I had a quick browse for the parts but there is a lot to chose from and I don't really have any idea what to pick.
Is there any more parts I would need? maybe a power distribution board, GPS and transmitter/receiver? (not sure what to look for in them either if I'm honest)

Sorry for sounding rather noobish, gotta start somewhere though
Thanks in Advanced!

 

[genesc]

Are you new to flying Quads? Or do you have experience with at least a 250 size frame and up?

Gene

 

[Risen91]

Hi Gene, i have flown a few smaller quads but nothing over 250. The reason I would prefer a larger quad is because this is pretty much a test bed for building an octo (for my DSLR camera) in the future. I understand im probably jumping in at the deep end here but I like a challenge

Thanks!

 

[Motopreserve]

Hi Gene, i have flown a few smaller quads but nothing over 250. The reason I would prefer a larger quad is because this is pretty much a test bed for building an octo (for my DSLR camera) in the future. I understand im probably jumping in at the deep end here but I like a challenge

Thanks!

I'm not getting into the whole "jumping in too quick" debate - because of course excitement often trumps patience, and I can relate with that

but in my opinion, you might want to think about getting some decent quality parts from the start, unless you are willing to A) lose the initial investment , and B) you have a high threshold for frustration.

Hobby King can be great once you learn out to cherry pick the choice parts. Their bad-*** looking frames are often over weight. Most of their props are flimsy and can break mid-flight. The cheap PDB failed me and crashed my quad. Their multiwii stuff has been hit or miss at times.

The fact that you have a budget and a goal is key - so I would suggest beginning by looking into some of the builds on here that have been successful. You don't need to copy them exactly, but you'll learn what works and what doesn't. And then you can adapt your build from there.

Just my 3¢

Just make sure you're safe and you have fun.

 

[Risen91]

I'm not getting into the whole "jumping in too quick" debate - because of course excitement often trumps patience, and I can relate with that

but in my opinion, you might want to think about getting some decent quality parts from the start, unless you are willing to A) lose the initial investment , and B) you have a high threshold for frustration.

Hobby King can be great once you learn out to cherry pick the choice parts. Their bad-*** looking frames are often over weight. Most of their props are flimsy and can break mid-flight. The cheap PDB failed me and crashed my quad. Their multiwii stuff has been hit or miss at times.

The fact that you have a budget and a goal is key - so I would suggest beginning by looking into some of the builds on here that have been successful. You don't need to copy them exactly, but you'll learn what works and what doesn't. And then you can adapt your build from there.

Just my 3¢

Just make sure you're safe and you have fun.

Some great advice :tennis: thanks!
I'll start by looking at some other builds as you suggested, however I may still need help picking out the parts that are right for me :nevreness:, i'll try some other sites as well.

 

[Motopreserve]

Some great advice :tennis: thanks!
I'll start by looking at some other builds as you suggested, however I may still need help picking out the parts that are right for me :nevreness:, i'll try some other sites as well.

Thats what this forum is for. You will find a ton of help here.

That second frame you liked to is the only [bad-***] one HK sells (that I know of) that's decently light. That would be a good, cheap platform.

I would suggest seeing if you can find some sunnysky motors locally - little more money, but a nice step up from most of the turnigy stuff.

The big question will be whether you want to spend the time to learn a flight controller like megapirate or multiwii. They are much cheaper - but a much steeper learning curve. For more plug & play : There is a new FC called the Vector which has a lot of features, including OSD, for very little money (comparatively) - and there is always the Naza lite. Decent props can be had by APC or HQPROPS for only a little more than the HK plastic kind.

Batteries are another big choice/expense. I would suggest looking into starting with 4S build, because there is a good chance you will move there almost immediately if you stay in the hobby (your DLSR) will probably require even 6S). I have 2 beautiful 3S batteries that only power my FPV monitor at this point

 

[Risen91]

The big question will be whether you want to spend the time to learn a flight controller like megapirate or multiwii.

I think I will take the time to learn it as I mentioned in the first post I believe megapirate has a few more features available but multiwii is easier to start with?

Megapirate has loads of auto navigation type features though it is falling behind Ardupilot since no one ported 2.9 properly and I'm not sure what is happening with 3 since the guy who was doing the porting has switched to actually developing Ardupilot. BUT and for me it is the most important thing Multiwii actually flew fairly well with default settings and only improved with about 5 mins of tuning, while it took me about 20 mins of tuning before I could even get MegaPirate to take off without flipping and eating props.

I have no problem spending time tweaking, learning and getting the most out of each firmware, however I do like the fact that megapirate has more auto navigation features available, even if it does mean spending more tweaking. What is your thought on this?

 

[Motopreserve]

I know that the new multiwii has waypoints (since 2.3). I've dropped off following the multiwii recently - I'm sure I'll get back there eventually. I have never used megapirate.

But I would also question the need for it with a first quad. Neat, but your focus will probably be on getting your flying skills up to snuff.

 

[Risen91]

Ok, so after looking into the firmware more a lot of people are recommending multiwii saying it more stable and much easier to use, so I guess i'll go with that.
After looking more into frames I found the Tarot Iron man 650 to be very popular, however its price tag is quite a bit higher than what I hoped to pay. I have seen a couple of builds on here use this: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...quadcopter_v2_0_carbon_fiber_frame_550mm.html and its a LOT lighter than the first frames I looked at as well as the Tarot Iron man 650, it has good reviews however my guess is it lacks build quality compared so I'm wondering if I should splash out a bit more for the Tarot.

Edit: Just thought, the talon v2 wouldn't fit a GoPro under it since its so low right?

 

[genesc]

It took me a month to just get out of the gate on my idea of what quad I wanted. Finally started out with Bartman's Group build. Got all the parts for it
and got distracted with some other builds and ideas. Nothing fancy mind you but just the basics. I ended up buying a SK-450 frame and KK 2 control
board with with other parts that the guys here suggested. Got distracted again and come accross what I thought was the ultimate learn to fly quad.
And it turned out to be just perfect for me. It was a Quads Lug frame kit. I bought it and put it all together, again using a Kk 2 board and used the
Ecalc to figuer out the rest. It has been a fantastic experience learning to fly this quad.. Parts are cheap and fortunately I have not broken
anything major yet. In the meantime I finished the SK-450 quad and am flying it. What I found though was it was more sensitive and harder to make
the simple manuevers that I had learned with the Quad Lugs quad.

What I have learned though is allot about the P-Gains, I-Gains and basic radio setups on the Expos and Duel Rates, etc. I am glad I ended up buying
the Quad Lugs because I had time to learn more about what I wanted to do. And basically I want to tool around and eventually use my FPV gear.
I am still learning and have bought another kit which is a Tri Copter, which is mostly wood as well. These wood kits are easy to fix and the wood
is cheap.. Learning as I go at my own pace.

Best of luck Risen

Gene

 

[Motopreserve]

That frame looks like it might be cool. You could probably figure out a way to make landing gear that extends it for the gopro. That's half the fun

the KK2.1 would be a great starter FC, but at that point the waypoints are out the window.

If you are looking multiwii - check out the readytoflyquads.com site. He pre-configures multiwii which is really nice. USA though, and he can be a bit slow - so it depends on your timeframe.

 

[Risen91]

Thanks Gene nice to hear some stories about your past builds. I'm really looking forwards to getting started with mine, although most people probably don't like it I'm looking forwards to all the tweaking and playing around with settings the most. I think the challenge of seeing it start off rocky and slowly progressing with more steady fights each time learning along the way will be a lot of fun. Even if it flys well the first time I'm sure there are always tweaks to be made to make it fly better

Moto, I'll check out the readytoflyquads site I think, thanks for the advice!

 

[genesc]

Your welcome Risen

Like Moto says the KK2 board will not do anything for your way points and actually is just a basic control board. But I felt I needed to crawl before I started to walk. My builds have allowed me to gain experience and practice without the huge learning curve right off the bat and I saved myself a tremendous amount of frustration...

I do have a DJI F-450 with the Naza M Lite built and ready to go. Once I am confident enough with my flying skills I will be taking her out for a spin around my back lot.

I see allot of new folks come on the MRF with some way out there builds and often wonder if they have actually had enough experience to take the challenge of trying to fly their new $500.00 - $800.00 ships or realize that one bad crash could cost them a bunch of moneys.

Gene

 

[Risen91]

Ok, so how about something like this for a build? Not too sure what to look for in eCalc but there is no warnings I'm kinda following a successful build I found. I'm also upping my budget to a more realistic £300.

Frame:
Tarot Ironman 650

Flight controller:
MultiWii Pro Ez3.0 Blacked MAG Edition

GPS:
uBlox 6H

Motors:
Tiger Motor MN4010-11 (475) x4

Battery:
Zippy Flightmax 8000mAh 4s1p 30c

ESC:
? 40A

Propellers:
17x5.52 Carbon Fiber CW CCW Propellers

eCalc:
http://www.ecalc.ch/xcoptercalc.php...11&proptwist=0&diameter=17&pitch=5.5&blades=2

Not yet worked out the cost of all this yet. I'm wondering about the compass readytoflyquads sells with the GPS, since it will work out cheaper to buy the GPS from a different site. The flight controller says it comes with " Remote Compass - designed to be remote located away from EMI" so I'm not sure if I actually need it? Also I know there is probably a few parts I'm missing but I'm just trying to get a rough outline of a build

Edit:
This actually works out a lot better (changed the motor). It now hovers at about 54% thrust, its also a lot cooler on the battery.
http://www.ecalc.ch/xcoptercalc.php...11&proptwist=0&diameter=17&pitch=5.5&blades=2

 

[Motopreserve]

The remote compass is definitely needed - it's also called the Mag, and you use it for heading. The fact that it is put on the GPS is so that it stays away from electrical interference that can be produced by the board (and other components). There is also a small shield that you can choose in the same order window that helps protect from interference to the GPS. If/when you get that FC, take a look over on RCGroups at this THREAD: You will find more help there than you can deal with

Also, make sure you get the GPS that is appropriate for Europe (I'm assuming UK is the same).

The link to ecalc didn't work. But I think the T-Motors are probably overkill for your first build. When you crash, and you WILL crash, you are going to want reasonably priced replacements. They also seem to be more geared toward 6S batteries (for better thrust). Have you calculated what you think your AUW will be???

Speaking of batteries: look into the Nano-Tech batteries. They are usually cheaper - and they are good quality. Sometimes slightly heavier - but not by a ton.

Keep in mind that the larger props are VERY expensive, especially CF. Take a look at prices, and make sure you are sitting down when you do so, I wouldn't want you to hurt yourself... Probably best to start off with cheaper props in the beginning anyway - something like APC or HQProps.

If you chose something like a SunnySky 3508-580kv ($50/each cheaper than T-Motor) with 15" props, you would have about 2600g lift at 50% throttle. There are other decent ones like SunnySky X3108S KV720. Again, determining the AUW is paramount in the goal of building a good MR.

 

[Risen91]

Thanks for the suggestions I'll take a look into all of them
AUW = all up weight? if so this is what eCalc said for the last build Tried:

Drive Weight:	1738	g
	61.3	oz
All-up Weight:	2213	g
	78.1	oz
add. Payload:	1317	g
	46.5	oz

 

[genesc]

Risen if you are just getting started, you will be guaranteed some small crashes. Take Moto's advice on the props. Your guaranteed to go through a few of them at first.. Good carbo mix props are much cheaper to replace.

Gene

 

[Motopreserve]

Risen if you are just getting started, you will be guaranteed some small crashes. Take Moto's advice on the props. Your guaranteed to go through a few of them at first.. Good platic props are much cheaper to replace.

Gene

Gene, I do not mean this in a harsh way - but trust me, "good" and "plastic" should never be mentioned in the same sentence when it comes to props...

ba bum bump! Thanks, I'm here all week

seriously though. The Carbon mix props are decent (maybe this is what you meant). But the plastic can break mid-air. Crashing due to newb flight skills is one thing - but you don't need a crash due to saving a dollar or two (quid across the pond???).

Risen, there are some other important things to look at in eCalc - on the bottom there. AUW is in fact your total. But you also want to make sure your 'motor @ hover' is around 50%. The left column on the bottom will show you flight times.

 

[genesc]

Moto....Noted... Carbon Mix it is... My poor choice of words and glad you caught that. Yes Carbon Mix are much cheaper initially when learning and adjusting for steady and stable flight.

Gene

 

[Motopreserve]

Moto....Noted... Carbon Mix it is... My poor choice of words and glad you caught that. Yes Carbon Mix are much cheaper initially when learning and adjusting for steady and stable flight.

Gene

. I wish I had the photo - but a guy on the cinetank frame thread over on FPVlabs shared a photo that he happened to catch from his gopro - his own MR plummeting to earth over canyon (had to be couple hundred feet up), and in the corner of the frame is his own plastic prop broken off, falling ahead of the MR - obviously the cause of the accident.