Deans are killing my fingers!!!

[kloner]

I'll have you translate it all........ like looking at an electronics parts catalog....... yuk,,,, next thing you know i'd have to shave to fly

$9.99 for 10

http://www.servocity.com/html/web_specials.html

 

[jes1111]

see how they jig em, i do the same thing but i use some $.99 clamps like for wood from harbor freight and do something very similar.....

http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the-1657/Soldering-Jig-for-RC/Detail

I remember seeing that jig when it first came out. Not a great idea to use a metal clamp when you're soldering battery leads - wood is a much better idea

 

[kloner]

you gotta dig the included roach clip though. see now that's money spent that keeps on given back

 

[jes1111]

you gotta dig the included roach clip though. See now that's money spent that keeps on given back

lol

 

[Lifter]

Cool - good, aren't they? keep spreading the word!

Hey Jes1111, I was PM chatting to King Kloner about the Deans / Power Pole connectors he suggested that I post here re my problem,

Want to put the POWER POLE connectors onto the Octo 8 as I have had
nothing but trouble with the Deans in Parallel sucking 1 battery dry.
and that was from new with the genuine Deans plugs professionally
soldered.

I cant fathom the Power Pole language and need to know which part
numbers I need to order to suit the Octo DW 8.

They are available here in Australia so no problem with supply.

Want to give them a go if you could point me into the right connector.

Thanks

 

[jes1111]

Hi Lifter -

Is this just battery connections you want? How many and what size of batteries? What are they connecting to... a power distribution board, a soldered wiring harness? What motors, i.e. what will your peak amps be?

 

[Chalagi]

Also what size is the wire on the batteries

 

[Bartman]

using deans on all packs and they work great. don't understand the hang ups with them. if you can fly sexy then it's ok to have plain old deans on there. connectors don't have to be sexy

 

[Lifter]

Hi Lifter -

Is this just battery connections you want? How many and what size of batteries? What are they connecting to... a power distribution board, a soldered wiring harness? What motors, i.e. what will your peak amps be?

A couple of Pics to show the setup. Batterys used have been the Nano Tecs 4500 and 5000mah and the Thunder Power 5000's.
The prob is that 1 battery gets drained, this has happened at least 50% of the time - didnt matter which battery set I have used either, the TP's or the NanoTecs.
Have replaced the parallel leads, and the battery deans connectors.
Some of the original Nano Tecs had the HK Deans copies, replaced them - didnt make any difference.

Got the HK voltage screamer on there attached to the balance leads - that works well so I have been getting a warning when alls not right.

Motors are the AXI 2814/22 and Chalagi the wire size I guess are about 12g. Thanks for looking...

And Jess, yes I want the battery connectors.

View attachment 6996View attachment 6997

 

[Lifter]

using deans on all packs and they work great. don't understand the hang ups with them. if you can fly sexy then it's ok to have plain old deans on there. connectors don't have to be sexy

Dont want sexy connectors Bart - just want to be able to fly without stuffing up a $190.00 Thunder Power battery - which has happened - TP did replace it I might add, no Questions asked.

So have been using the el cheapo Nano Tecs mostly while trying to sort this problem - but if the Sexy connectors work ie Power Poles - I want them...

 

[Malcr001]

Reading this thread has made me switch from deans to XT60 to EC5 connectors. I had to upgrade my quad because it was too heavy which meant upgrading motors, larger lipo and bigger props. Seeing as the lipo is 4s 5400mah 10AWG 35c I think the XT60's are borderline OK but EC5's would be a better choice so I'm now switching to EC5's.

 

[jes1111]

Some more questions:

(1) I have to ask - what's the shiny deposit around one of the battery connectors in the photographs? Is it something you applied or did that leach out of the connector/wire?

(2) I'm guessing this rig pulls around 150A at full throttle - so that's certainly exceeding the maximum rating of a Deans connector. After a flight have you checked temperatures with your fingers? Is one of the battery connections hotter than the other, particularly when this uneven drain occurs? Are the wires hot anywhere?

(3) You are using a Y-piece parallel adapter, feeding into a single cable. Where does that cable go to? i.e. does it go to a Power Distribution Board from which the ESCs are fed or does it split out from a soldered junction to go to each ESC? If it's a PDB then brand/details and a photo will help.

(4) Wire gauge - I can see the markings on the battery cables (10AWG) and the final piece of the Y-piece (10AWG) but the two branches of the Y-piece look like they might be thinner (12AWG?). Please confirm. Also please confirm the gauge of the wire from the single master connector onwards.

In the meantime I'm pulling together the list of part numbers for the relevant parts - you're right: it's not easy with so many choices

I'm asking these questions because with that kind of amperage I think we need to alter your wiring scheme a bit rather than just replace the connectors.

 

[Bartman]

Dont want sexy connectors Bart - just want to be able to fly without stuffing up a $190.00 Thunder Power battery - which has happened - TP did replace it I might add, no Questions asked.

So have been using the el cheapo Nano Tecs mostly while trying to sort this problem - but if the Sexy connectors work ie Power Poles - I want them...

The TP batteries don't seem to live up to the high price. Nano-techs deliver great power deep into the discharge cycle, they're cheap, relatively light........i don't understand the bashing of cheap batteries when they actually work really well.

Deans are the lightest of all the connectors, not that a couple of plugs will make a huge difference but if you're designing an entire system to be light then each component has to do its job and if it can do that while also being the lightest option then that's a bonus. If you're running a high current application though then you have to use what is necessary and Deans might not work. For reference I'm running eight Tiger 2814's on an 11.5 lb heli with two independent battery leads going to the ESC's and there's a Deans on each. Been like that for two years, no problems.

If everything is set up correctly then there shouldn't be any pull on the battery leads that would require a locking connector.

 

[gencode]

Last night I had a great 7 minute flight with duel batteries. After a recharge I noticed that one of the deans solder had come lose. I used silver solder but maybe I should have used a different solder for the deans plug? Or over maybe I should also change to another type all together. If I would have not ran duel batteries that may have been a bad flight.

But now I don't think I trust these deans (or my soldering)

[EDIT: Looking at this again, its my first battery, this was soldered by the hobby shop not me
and they don't use silver solder]

View attachment 6998

 

[Malcr001]

According to this: http://rcfoamfighters.com/blog/?p=84 the max amps that can be drawn from my lipo 5400mah 35c lipo is 189. That means even the EC5 (120 amps) connectors are not as suitable as a I thought or does it not matter so much?

I have not come accross any connectors that are above 120amps. Anyone know of any?

 

[Bartman]

i need to redo this but it'll give you an idea on how to get a wire onto a Deans. i did it very slowly to show the process but it can be done much more quickly and still be safe.

 

[jes1111]

Deans are the lightest of all the connectors, not that a couple of plugs will make a huge difference but if you're designing an entire system to be light then each component has to do its job and if it can do that while also being the lightest option then that's a bonus. If you're running a high current application though then you have to use what is necessary and Deans might not work. For reference I'm running eight Tiger 2814's on an 11.5 lb heli with two independent battery leads going to the ESC's and there's a Deans on each. Been like that for two years, no problems.

If everything is set up correctly then there shouldn't be any pull on the battery leads that would require a locking connector.

I agree - if your setup is working then there's no need to contemplate a change. But if you are having issues or starting from a blank sheet, I wouldn't recommend Deans

Connectors can come apart under the influence of vibration. This is a common problem with bullets, but other types are vulnerable too. The "locking" of a connector is really on two levels. Firstly, the ability to apply a physical lock, often with a separate locking piece/device - this is what I'd call Primary Locking. Then there's the mechanical "over-centre" action that some connectors have - usually some kind of sprung bias over a detent where the spring force acts to prevent the connectors from spontaneously separating. This would be termed Secondary Locking. PowerPoles have both of these. Deans have neither - they rely on the frictional force of the arched spring against a flat surface and are thus vulnerable to vibration which, under the right (or rather: wrong!) conditions, can cause the spring to "walk" along the blade it's pressing against.

 

[gencode]

Wow thanks Bartman.
1) Was that Silver Solder? The one I got was at Radioshack, its a very thin diameter compared to yours, Silver Solder should be fine correct?

2) The Flux they had was not in a solder like line, it was more like a cup of it, but that looks easier.

Thanks, Ed,

 

[jes1111]

Last night I had a great 7 minute flight with duel batteries. After a recharge I noticed that one of the deans solder had come lose. I used silver solder but maybe I should have used a different solder for the deans plug? Or over maybe I should also change to another type all together. If I would have not ran duel batteries that may have been a bad flight.

But now I don't think I trust these deans (or my soldering)

[EDIT: Looking at this again, its my first battery, this was soldered by the hobby shop not me
and they don't use silver solder]

View attachment 9102

Can't see from this angle - did the solder separate completely from the contact area, or is there some solder left on the contact area? i.e. did the solder itself break or did the solder lose its grip on the surface completely. If the solder broke, then I'd blame vibration. If the solder came away cleanly from the surface, then it's your soldering - before soldering you must clean the contact area with fine abrasive paper or a fibreglass brush, then isopropyl alcohol. If the wire you are using has been sitting for any length of time, remove and discard the first few inches so the ends of the strands you are going to solder are not already oxidised. In addition to using flux-cored solder, you can also apply (compatible) liquid or paste flux to the wire and the contact area before the soldering operation. After soldering, flux residue should be removed with a proprietary flux cleaning solution.

This is one of the reasons I don't advocate soldered connectors - good, reliable soldering is actually much more involved (and tricky) than it might seem.

I don't know whether different solder compositions would make any difference here. The modern lead-free solders tend to be used for ecological reasons, not performance per se. Lead-free solder is a b**ch to get right, though - I wouldn't recommend using it unless you are a ninja with the soldering iron

 

[Lifter]

Some more questions:

(1) I have to ask - what's the shiny deposit around one of the battery connectors in the photographs? Is it something you applied or did that leach out of the connector/wire?

(2) I'm guessing this rig pulls around 150A at full throttle - so that's certainly exceeding the maximum rating of a Deans connector. After a flight have you checked temperatures with your fingers? Is one of the battery connections hotter than the other, particularly when this uneven drain occurs? Are the wires hot anywhere?

(3) You are using a Y-piece parallel adapter, feeding into a single cable. Where does that cable go to? i.e. does it go to a Power Distribution Board from which the ESCs are fed or does it split out from a soldered junction to go to each ESC? If it's a PDB then brand/details and a photo will help.

(4) Wire gauge - I can see the markings on the battery cables (10AWG) and the final piece of the Y-piece (10AWG) but the two branches of the Y-piece look like they might be thinner (12AWG?). Please confirm. Also please confirm the gauge of the wire from the single master connector onwards.

In the meantime I'm pulling together the list of part numbers for the relevant parts - you're right: it's not easy with so many choices

I'm asking these questions because with that kind of amperage I think we need to alter your wiring scheme a bit rather than just replace the connectors.

Thanks jess1111,

Here is some info and more Pics -

re Q1: It is just "Liquid electrical tape" the shrink wrap wasnt quite in position.

re Q2: Havent noticed any hot wires anywhere, that includes the Deans connectors.

re Q3: "You are using a Y-piece parallel adapter, feeding into a single cable" - Yes correct,
"Where does that cable go to" - only guessing here as it vanishes into the guts of it, would assume it runs to a PDB also its a 12awg wire and its all Mk equipped.

re Q4: The 2 branches of the Y lead are probably 14awg (definitely not 12awg) no markings on the wire and yes 10awg feeding them with 12awg going into the PDB (?) and 10awg leads on the batteries.

In the first Pic you can see the main feed + red wire under the ribbon. That is not the original Y lead, I have swapped / replaced it several times - same prob.

Thanks