CS8 to X8 conversion - Herkules ESC III V3

[ichwillnix]

Hi Elos,

if possible, Active Freewheeling should be turned ON allways because (as you already detected) the power loss and the power consumption is really reduced.

I believe more and more that the DJI is generating sometimes "uncontrolled" PWM signals and the very fast Herkules is immediately translating this to power.
Maybe this behaviour is not recognised with ESCs which have a slow digital input filter. We will take a look also with the oscilloscope to the DJI PPM outputs and maybe will see something here.
At the moment in don't want to slow down the Herkules Software with any input filter. We should try to find and eliminate the real rootcause.
... I am still exited.

 

[elossam]

Andreas you could be right in your thoughts and let me add a feeling. It's possible the dji has some kind of "cache" to filter rf noise and/or vibration that generates a cumulative error, once the cache is full it erases the entire memory and starts recording again. As long as the cache is going full the inestability goes up more and more generating these false pulses but as soon as it is empty is works right and the process cycles again and again. The ammount of time of each cycle deppends on every ufo and the way it induces to forced errors. That could be the reasson of some having the issues very frequently and others single unperceptible ones separated in time enough no to be associated as lack of stability. . Have read those suggestion of a tight fit of the unit and so is mine but cant understand why it should really love that. The imu has so low mass a dampened fitting, the same way a gyro was fitted for years, cant induce false readings due to imu banking but helps the firm not to work as hard as in a vibration enviroment. All that could be a result of my fantasy with the help of a beer but hope it helps others to really discover where to look at for a solution.
Pd. Will hold the FW. ON, at least the energy saved covers the main dji power requirements so I gain that. If you want me to test any kind of firm modification or a 16hz one you know my email.
Viele grüsse.

 

[elossam]

Is there a way to reset the dji so I can load the latest firm on it again and verify it has not something wrong loaded? I ve the latest firm but maybe the sudden oscillations comes from something bad loaded.

 

[redridinghood]

Andreas I am looking forward to the conclussion of the test so we can use the Herkules II platform on DJI systems. If as you say the two systems are not compatible then that would be a shame and a loss for the DJI Wookong.

 

[BorisS]

Is there a way to reset the dji so I can load the latest firm on it again and verify it has not something wrong loaded? I ve the latest firm but maybe the sudden oscillations comes from something bad loaded.

I dont know of any real reset, the only way is to re-flash it again. Or take a old config tool and take the firmware down a step and than bring it up again. As far as i know that works.

Boris

 

[BorisS]

Andreas I am looking forward to the conclussion of the test so we can use the Herkules II platform on DJI systems. If as you say the two systems are not compatible then that would be a shame and a loss for the DJI Wookong.

I dont think that it would be such a issue for Andreas to change something concerning the FW if it comes to adjusting the digital filter. Preferably it would be better if DJI pushed the hercs to the max and the herc dont have to be reduced in what they are capable. I dont understand DJI on this anyways. Their rebranded hobbywing DJI ESCs are not as bad as most think, but still not a solution when it comes to expensive equipment ! So they should acutally be looking for partner making quality ESCs since they are pushing the prof line with there gimbal and s 800 frame.

Boris

 

[BorisS]

ah one has to love it got some new hercs today and know it turns out that my CNC guy got the new heat sink wrong have to wait another 3 to 4 days


View attachment 2415

 

[BorisS]

finally the big bird is up again !

May the testing begin

Boris

 

[RTRyder]

Boris, what's different with this set of Herc vs. what you had before?

If the firmware ever gets to the point that it can deal with the output from a WKM I may be interested in a set myself. For now I've drifted back to my MK electronics until DJI gets their act together and figures out how to make the WKM work on large frames. I can't deal with an APV platform that only flys well when there's no wind...

Ken

 

[BorisS]

Hi Ken,

the hercs i have now are the II V4, no big difference the board has grown 4mm in width and lenght and a temp sensor has been added. I am also at the point and watching the MK developments closely. The hercs work great and seem to over achieve the MK Bl Ctrl in performance and responds time in combination with the MK FC. Except the power surges with bigger props they also work great with WKM. Just I have the feeling that the WKM doesnt even push them to full performance and the hercs are actually boring themselves. But I will know this this or next week when i make it to andreas baier and he will take a closer look at what WKM actually delivers in its PPM output.

Yeah the wind issue is really annoying me, since i think wkm has the potential but i guess we are just not heard. It seems to me that the strategy is their gimbal to even out the corrections the WKM makes in the wind. But that is not a solution for those that are not going for their gimbal and the question is if the gimbal will really deliver the advertised performance. I would love to feed the wind thread about WKM more and eventually contact them and see how much they care which will make a big difference for me as in sticking to WKM or giving the MK a chance again. Feeling wise if MK figures out their alt hold and GPS hold they are ahead of WKM again without a doubt. At the moment i have more trust in MK figuring it out than DJI even admitting or considering that there are issue in the wind !

(Edit) Im just happy i made the decision for the hercs since they give me both worlds WKM and MK !

Boris

 

[BorisS]

The points that the Gimbal dirft has not been resolved for the first couple units that suffer from it, if true that only those are affected, really annoys me ! And the actually once promised additional variable that will make the WKM more stable in the wind which was never delivered and turned out to be the disturbed gain, which doesnt bring the results, is also a set back. All these wind videos from WKM infront of the fans are great but doesnt help the users and dont hit the spot. If they consider that we are not able to get the birds setup correctly to perform in the wind than it should be in their interest to make it clear to us how we get there. If its the components we are using to low Kv to big props to big frames etc. than they should also make a statement. But somehow we are left alone.

Borid

 

[redridinghood]

Hey guys, I too am unable to get the Herkules to work with the wookong. The Dji system works ok with plush esc.
I am also in the same boat as you thinking that the wookong needs a lot of work before it can fly well in any condition other than no wind.
Also I don't believe that the DJI gimbal will fix the wookong flaws. Any time I contact support or Sydneyw all I get back is horse****.
I really hope the MK team get their act together soon and enhance the GPS and reliability of the platform.
I am too tired to be doing beta testing for all these systems, I came here to fly...

 

[elossam]

Strange thing some cant make the wkm and herkules combo work and others do. Some suffere strange reactions and others dont. In my case both the cx4 and the AD-8 are working togeher and the only difference is the Freewheling adds or makes the engines sound different at iddle. Beyond that cant notice any difference or problem. The lack of stability, if we can say this way, comes from a bad adjust of the wkm gains, a rf noise at the wkm imu or mix board or a combination of both. Its difficult to make a direct comparisson between wkm and other board unless you hae two exactly platform flying in the same momment and condition. Post a picture of your equipment and a scheme of the used wiring to see if we can find any mistake.

 

[RTRyder]

That's the problem, the DJI just works OK on standard ESC's, not great or better than anything else and they do not seem willing to even acknowledge that there are issues with stability on larger frames. I guess their attitude isn't all that unusual, try telling MK there's a problem with their stuff and see what kind of reply you get...

All I can say at this point is I'm not going to continue throwing large amounts of $ at the WKM platform in hope that eventually it will magically be perfect, I was going to grab a Zenmuse at the first opportiunity but now I'm going to wait and see what others are able to do with it before I throw that kind of cash at a gimbal that can only be used with a DJI controller. I'd rather spend the cash on a CS gimbal first and know that it can be used with any flight controller I care to use rather tham be locked into a platform that isn't ready for prime time.

I hope that DJI will get a clue and build their own CS, Skyjib, etc. and see for themselves it only works when things are perfect. I think the potential is there if they test with real world setups that the rest of us are using and work on the firmware to make the big and heavy frames fly as well as the smaller ones. I do know from personal experience that larger quads fly much better than hex or octo with a WKM. I just built a quad that's roughly the same size as my Droidworx AD6 frame and using Avroto motors with 11 x 5 props this thing flys amazingly well in all conditions including wind that I wouldn't think of trying to fly a WKM hex in. GP position hold works really well in the wind as well and it takes a really big gust of wind to disturb the quad enough to make it do bad things, so why can't they do the same for hex and octo???

Ken

 

[Siteline]

Let's hope the these two heavy weight pros (MK vs. WKM) jump in the ring together and battle it out. We can only benefit from the competition. I know where I am placing my bets.:black_eyed: But time will tell!?

 

[elossam]

All escs have a way to set the thr range. How does the herkules know or set the thr range. We never push.the thr stick to max so how does it know the upper limit? In case it uses fixed end points how do we know the max value in order to make the tequired ATV reduction to use the entire stick range in a more eficient way?

 

[dr ray]

hi folks
you are right elossam,

all i can say i woud love to have a temp.sensor to observe the feds.

raymont

 

[BorisS]

Hi,

I asked Andreas about that some months back and he said Herks have a fixed range just like the MK BL Ctrl. I must say i dont understand the whole calibrating ESCs when it come to WKM anyways. It might make sense to calibrate them to have them all in sync, but since the throttle impulse from the radio never reaches the ESCs once going through the MC anyways, since as far as i can tell WKM interprets the throtte signal in what ever way its algorithm tells it to. Even in manual mode just recently when i was setting up my CS 8 again, i had the throttle in min so the motors just stay on so i can check the spin direction, the motor speed slowly increased without me touching the throttle, which i though was only the case in attitude mode. Not to mention attitude mode were the bird will more or less auto take off by itself, if you bring the throttle over midstik and just wait. So i guess WKM output signal are in the range of what the HerKs can work with and a syncing between the Herks dosent seem to be necessary. But i will ask Andreas about a reasonable explanation, I just cant reach him at the moment mainly wanting to since i would like to meet him already and do some testing.

Dr ray the V4 have a temp sensor on the if i understood correctly. But probably only usable in combination with MK, if the data can be used in a WKM setup or even possible to extract it from the Herks in PPM setup I dont know

Boris

 

[DennyR]

I have to say that DJI do produce a good product and I am one who has no problems with it but I would definitely sit on the fence with their new hexa and the Zenmuse. I did try dihedral motor angles a couple of years ago and found the cross axis bias effect was too strong to improve stability. I also cant see any advantage with a three axis 360 deg mount. Just more weight. I will be totally surprised if it can match the F1 which is probably half the weight. They are big enough to weather any storm and they can sort anything in time. Just don't be the first inline.

 

[elossam]

I used fixed esc range point on Hoverfly with turnigy escs but they allows you to check the max point plying with atv until it comes into prog mode abd that requires a bunch of atv that are unusable in flight but extends the precision and lineality. Hope Andreas can add a similar way to do that.