Mrtarango32
Member
Thank you.
2014 - best ESC at the moment?
- Thread starter Silverburn
- Start date
Thank you.
gtranquilla
RadioActive
My Tiger-Motor MN4012 - 400KV motors arrived and I am now testing them with my hobby bench testing tools, 6S battery and 45 amp Turnigy Multistar OPT ESCs. All works fine on the bench so far. But my big question is:
As these are essentially high pole count pancake style motors and there have been a lot of warnings about some ESC/ESC firmware incompatibilities, I am wondering if it is possible to verify 100% on the bench that this system will work 100% in the air!
My testing equipment includes a CCPM servo tester, power/kv meter and multimeter. Testing with no motor load, i.e., no prop gives me 100% speed range with no cogging etc. I can test again with motor load i.e., with a 15 x 5.5 prop and record the power/rpm....
but no much else can be done after that.......
Is this a good approach or is there something missing for bench testing?
As these are essentially high pole count pancake style motors and there have been a lot of warnings about some ESC/ESC firmware incompatibilities, I am wondering if it is possible to verify 100% on the bench that this system will work 100% in the air!
My testing equipment includes a CCPM servo tester, power/kv meter and multimeter. Testing with no motor load, i.e., no prop gives me 100% speed range with no cogging etc. I can test again with motor load i.e., with a 15 x 5.5 prop and record the power/rpm....
but no much else can be done after that.......
Is this a good approach or is there something missing for bench testing?
thats pretty much the workflow. i would test rapid fast full throttle blips and see if there is sync issues with props off of course. don't let the motor spin full throttle too long w/ out props..thats is not a good practice due to weird centrifugal forces and no prop wash to cool motor. then check when there all connected through flight controller. make sure all settings are consistent across all esc's with tuning card if you got one. since your not on simon k i think you will have success. no 100% guarantee of course. 
i would also test with props on if you have a setup to do so w/ servo tester then fc controlling the motors. other then strapping the craft down i'm not sure what else you can do.
i would also test with props on if you have a setup to do so w/ servo tester then fc controlling the motors. other then strapping the craft down i'm not sure what else you can do.
gtranquilla
RadioActive
Since the Turnigy Multistar 45A OPT Escs were developed to handle the Turnigy Multistar 22 pole pancake style motors and I have extensive successful flying experience with that combination..... I feel confident that these will work out just fine. All bench testing including rapid motor accel and deceleration are 100% without props. All ESCs are configured to NiMh battery type so as to enable the lowest possible LVC since LVC is a useless feature on MRs - IMHO.
You have to test with props. or else it's pointless testing. you need to have them on load to know if they will kog or not with that prop. And people also say you can benchtest but get problems in air anyways. so you realy need them mounted on helicopter tied down in some way and give it extreme throttle blips with for example a 3pos switch.
Motopreserve
Drone Enthusiast
Sorry if this has been answered here already , but a search of the thread didn't turn it up. I'm wondering if there is a definitive answer on the state of SimonK firmware for the pancake motors? When scouring google, so much (almost all really) is from way back in 2012 (seems like ages ago!!!).
I have a bunch of f-30a here, and some OPTO from Witespy (RTFQuads) that are based on f-30a with filtering removed for pancake motors.
I have some sunnysky V3508 580kv motors for a build, and I'd like to flash the ESCs - just not sure if the infamous SimonK is kosher for pancake motor or not. They're 28 pole count. So I'm assuming well within the range that historically had issues.
Thanks so much.
Scott
I have a bunch of f-30a here, and some OPTO from Witespy (RTFQuads) that are based on f-30a with filtering removed for pancake motors.
I have some sunnysky V3508 580kv motors for a build, and I'd like to flash the ESCs - just not sure if the infamous SimonK is kosher for pancake motor or not. They're 28 pole count. So I'm assuming well within the range that historically had issues.
Thanks so much.
Scott
There isn't any definitive answer. The problem is some motors work fine, others don't, and Simon is just one guy doing development on the firmware so he can't possibly test every motor that's out there for sale. Yes, the pole count is in the range that is known to be an issue and even if they seem to work fine on initial tests, both bench and in flight, I still wouldn't trust it without a solid guarantee that the firmware is going to work with that combo and that isn't something you're going to get. I lost a Nex 5 camera body in a crash due to the cogging/synch issue right around the time it was first discovered, one of the motors on my Cinestar 6 stopped after losing synch and the remaining 5 weren't enough to keep it in the air and controllable.
So, the options are use the ESCs with the factory firmware as I have yet to hear of an instance of in-flight problems with stock ESCs, they either work on startup or they don't, no gray area like with the SimonK only having issues after you get off the ground. Second, download the latest SimonK version and tweak the parameters to use high timing and any other necessary settings that are "hardwired" in the SimonK, recompile and flash the ESCs, then do some test flights to see what happens, you'll see the problem quickly enough if it's going to happen. Problem there is it's a one way street, once you flash them there's no going back. Third, get a set of ESCs that are known to work with high pole count motors and have multirotor friendly firmware. It's a small set of products but at least there's some assurance that it's not going to just randomly fall out of the sky due to known firmware issues.
I'm successfully using the Castle 35 multirotor ESCs with a set of motors that have issues with the latest SimonK with tweaked parameters, so I'm fairly confident they'll work in most cases where SimonK won't, plus they're 6S capable with multirotor specific firmware already installed.
Ken
Motopreserve
Drone Enthusiast
Thanks so much Ken. Do you have a favorite (read best price!) vendor , or are they about all the same?
appreciate the help!
appreciate the help!
The Castle are pretty much the same price everywhere, they don't discount much if at all. The good news is that they're actually quite reasonably priced as Castle stuff goes, around $140 for the set of 4 whereas some of the heli specific Castle ESCs in the same amp range can be half or more of that for 1!
If you shop around on the net you might save $5 or $10 off that price but that's about the most you'll see.
The HK Multistar are supposed to be good as well though I haven't used a set yet. I do have their motors on my extended arm TBS Discovery and they seem to be quite decent for the price so I would try their ESCs if I needed a set for big motors and the US warehouse had them in stock. Ordering from China/Hong Kong is a hit or miss proposition these days so I try to stay with companies that ship from within the USA whenever possible.
Ken
SoCal Blur
Member
The Castle Multirotor ESCs handle refresh rates up to 490hz I think. I'm using ZTW Spider ESCs that have SimonK and handle refresh rates up to 600hz (supposedly). I did have one fail, but I don't know if it was related to using the high pole count motors or just Quality Control. My point is, other than that one failure, so far they are working fine and the ZTW ESCs are relatively inexpensive: http://www.buddyrc.com/ztw-spider-40a-opto-multirotor-esc.html
Motopreserve
Drone Enthusiast
RT: So far this whole build will be sourced from domestic vendors - so is like to finish it up with that as well if these Witespy ESCs don't test well.
SoCal: thanks for another option. It seems all those ZTW are preflashed. I'm almost wondering whether I'd just be better off getting some non-flashed ESCs. The research on this is a bit frustrating - results are so varied.
Thanks for the info.
SoCal: thanks for another option. It seems all those ZTW are preflashed. I'm almost wondering whether I'd just be better off getting some non-flashed ESCs. The research on this is a bit frustrating - results are so varied.
Thanks for the info.
Last edited by a moderator:
let us know how it goes.
ZTW recently started selling ESCs under their own brand here in the USA. If you have previously used Maytech V1 or HK Blue series, you've already used ZTW ESCs, both vendors relable the base ZTW hardware and firmware with their own branding. If you compare the manual that comes with a Maytech vs. the one that comes with the HK Blue they're the same document with only the branding and seller ID being different. The quality of the ZTW manufacturing is definitely a notch above a lot of the other Chinese manufacturers and being an all nFET design they're solid reliable hardware. I use the HK Blue variant on a lot of the stuff I currently have flying mainly because they're dirt cheap and ship from the US warehouse.
As far as refresh rates go, 490 is about the max that PWM can handle if you look at how it works and do the math. Certain I2C ESCs can go higher but for all practical purposes even 490 is pushing it on some of the less well made standard ESCs as the timing circuitry isn't all that solid. So it's nice to know the firmware is written to be capable of 600hz refresh, unfortunately current hardware will never get there as long as it's being driven with a PWM input.
Ken
gtranquilla
RadioActive
speculation about the best ESCs with high refresh rates...
i am using the Hobby Wings 40amps with simonK on Highpol counts on 6s and they perform well. BUT they perform only well with 14x8 Graupners, if i go higher 15x5 Tmotor - the motors heat up fast and they start to give this nice sound. but they run without losing sync.
recently i switched to U5s and i was thinking of using larger props i.e. 15inch but there is no difference - they heat up and the same nice sound.
critical is the ambient temperature in this setup. if there is no active cooling and ambient is in the 90F the ESC is barely touchable in 80% hovering mode.
system data: X8 with 6s U5 -14x8 Graupners and 16lb total weight which results in 60A overall
so which ESC has realy all NFET and can handle 10A static current with 400Hz on 6S thats the question...
the HobbyWings are not all NFET i believe, ok i havent checked the FETS on the board
i am using the Hobby Wings 40amps with simonK on Highpol counts on 6s and they perform well. BUT they perform only well with 14x8 Graupners, if i go higher 15x5 Tmotor - the motors heat up fast and they start to give this nice sound. but they run without losing sync.
recently i switched to U5s and i was thinking of using larger props i.e. 15inch but there is no difference - they heat up and the same nice sound.
critical is the ambient temperature in this setup. if there is no active cooling and ambient is in the 90F the ESC is barely touchable in 80% hovering mode.
system data: X8 with 6s U5 -14x8 Graupners and 16lb total weight which results in 60A overall
so which ESC has realy all NFET and can handle 10A static current with 400Hz on 6S thats the question...
the HobbyWings are not all NFET i believe, ok i havent checked the FETS on the board
redridinghood
Member
The jeti-advance-40-pro-opto are good.
Scott Drysdale
Mixmaster
Seems to me that the transition point from P and N FET ESCs to 100% N FETs is 40 Amps.....i.e., at 40 amp and above they are all N FETs.
fltundra
Member
KDE or Castle, best available.
Go take a look at the Taranis thread posts Jeti made, I won't do business with them.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1866206&page=2003
Motopreserve
Drone Enthusiast
Tundra,
have be you used the KDE yet???
i didn't see any jeti specific stuff on that link...
Carapau
Tek care, lambs ont road, MRF Moderator
Can't see the link to Jeti either however I have just built a machine for lifting Reds etc using the Jeti Hicopters. These have been excellent so far. No programming required with up to 500hz refresh rate designed specifically for MR use. Using them with my DJI A2 and Tiger U7 motors and not a problem. I also own a Jeti DS16 along with a whole job lot of telemetry sensors and receivers and I have been nothing other than totally impressed with Jeti in both their products, their functionality, their reliability and crucially, their support.