first build thread: lessons and learning to follow...

[Motopreserve]

I think even the blue may be weird on plastic. But I found the plastic hardware to grip pretty well, yet not as good as a nylon lock nut.

I dont know know what this brass thing is - but I've wired up countless recording studios (thousands of annoyingly small points) without one, so the sponge is plenty for me

i used the CA for prop balance - bit I think Jay's suggestion of Polish is better so you can get it off with acetone if need be. Hemo stats are a nice call too.

 

[jbrumberg]

I use loctite on metal to metal bonding. CA or hot glue on plastic to plastic bonding is kind of permanent. That liquid electrician's tape and nail polish also kind of works in a pinch. One nice thing about the nail polish for prop balancing is that such a small amount is applied at one time. It dries super quickly. And it can be filed down easily and quickly with a nail file for "fine tuning".

 

[ultrafit]

Thank you for posting this information. It is just what I was hoping for. I was going to try and build a quad with my son over the winter and I think this will be the way to go. Please if you could not abbreviate to much until I catch on to your vocabulary. Again thank you. And is it possible for a parts list be posted for your build ? Again I hope I'm not asking to much. Thanks

 

[Motopreserve]

No worries. I was hoping other people new to the hobby like myself would be able to benefit & chip in to the basic knowledge base.

Dont by get overwhelmed by the abbreviations. There is a STICKY at the top of the beginner forum which covers a ton of them. Become familiar quick - it will make your research MUCH simpler

i cant recall if there is a parts list at the top of this thread or not. May have changed some. I'll try to put one together for mine - but remember, you really need to determine what it is you want to accomplish with this build first. That will dictate all your choices. Stunt flying? Aerial video and/or photo? Cheap, or you have some money to spend? If you have the tools listed above it would be a great start.

 

[Motopreserve]

Here is the parts list that I initially ordered from Hobby King. The additional items were the Multiwii board from Witespy, which takes a it more tweaking, but is far more flexible with a ton of features, if you're willing to put the time in.

You can see that I ordered and extra ESC, and an extra motor. I ordered extra props as well, from both HK and Witespy. If I had it to do over again, I would have ordered some extra arms and motor mounts from HK the first time around. But after several crashes, it's still holding up pretty well, so I haven't really needed them. Again, remember that this is MY build, and was an attempt to get me what I was after, namely, practice and eventual aerial video. So your desires and goals may differ, and there is certainly improvement to be had in these choices I made...

View attachment 15384

 

[Motopreserve]

Moving on...

It's been a while since I posted to this thread. I had some great experiences over the holidays while traveling south to some better weather. Of course that ended in a bad crash while pushing the limits flying at night. Brought the 'chopstick' quad back home and made some repairs, and got it ready to test again, but then the Vermont winter reared it's ugly head - and a couple weeks of frozen tundra-;ike conditions stopped me in my tracks...

Finally the weather broke and it was ie to put this thing back in the air. Unfortunately, I feel I changed too many things without proper test time, instead of sticking with the common wisdom of 'change one thing at a time.' Took the quad over to an ice covered field near the house, and it had no normal controls. It began to drift forward a bunch, and for some reason, correction to pull it back didn't seem to be working, and it just wanted to continue forward, only allowing me to fight against the craft to pull it back to me. Eventually it hit hard, breaking 2 more props and leaving me with that sinking feeling...

After some more repairs, I took it out to the driveway during a brief break in the weather. It's not a big enough space to really get it going, but I figured I'd allow it to hover, and see where it was at...

First thing I noticed was that engaging the Multiwii Baro mode and Baro+Mag mode made the quad jump up and down in the air. The video above shows the craft hovering - but that was completely by manual adjustments to flight, despite being in a mode that was supposed to self level. I had calibrated the mag with my new Bluetooth and Android app setup, and I'm not worried that may have actually made it worse than it was prior to "proper" calibration. I flipped it out of that mode - flying strictly on the Horizon mode - which is supposed to allow it to self-level when you let go of the sticks. This didn't seem to be working either. Seems the software side of things is f%#ked. I plan on reinstalling the software fresh from the desktop computer - to see if that helps.

While the quad was on the gorund, I spun up the motors a few times to feel for excessive heat on the ESCs and the motors. They all seemed fine (I'm sure the chilly weather didn't hurt), but while checking, I noticed that the back left prop seemed to be spinning odd. Must be a bent shaft!

Time to take this motor apart and see what the guts look like. I have never done this before, so it should be interesting to see inside, as well as determine whether the shaft is indeed bent and if this is causing some of the pull that the craft was exhibiting...

Stay tuned for brushless motor surgery...

 

[jbrumberg]

Good luck Scott. Jay

 

[Motopreserve]

Spent a little time getting set up with a small machinists vice I brought home from the shop for working on these beasts. Nice and clean now so no metal shavings find their way into the motor magnets. Unfortunately I don't have my set of punches here at home. I'd say this night be worthwhile to have on the list of valuable tools. But I made due with using my screwdriver type handle that holds the allen bits. That worked well enough.

You need to first get the ring-clip off the bottom of the motor. Then remove the small set-screw (everyone here seems to call them "grub screws") that holds the bell to the shaft. It's seen from the side - toward the top. It's TINY. You need a very small Allen wrench. I think it's 2.5mm.

Then I put the x-mount back on the bottom of the motor and used it for support to secure the motor upside down in the vice. I needed to whack the shaft pretty good to get it out. Didn't want to give up the ghost.



Once apart, I laid the shaft on the desk and rolled it. No doubt it had a bend. I also used a straight edge to check it, and it has a bend that certainly would throw off the smoothness of the quad.

The he photos below show the internals of the motor. I had never taken one apart - but it's really just like a motorcycle stator.





the spare motor I bought with my initial purchase went onto the quad. Fresh snow here today - not sure when I'll be able to check it. Interesting hobby king note : the motors have a sticker on the side I never looked closely at. Says 1100kv. Double checked my order and they are listed as 1000 Kv. I just ordered some more - so I'm hoping the replacements come as the same screw up to keep consistent!!!

 

[jbrumberg]

Congratulations on determining another possible cause for some of those flight characteristics. The little quads will tend to drift in the direction of the weakest/failing/failed motor. I have no experiencewith big quads yet. Thanks for sharing.

When I bought my Turnigy D2830-11 (1000KV) motors from HK, HK reported that they were mislabeled as 1100 (on the motor casing?), but they were not. They were labelled correctly (at least on on the outer motor casing). Maybe the motor innards know for sure.

I surely hope your newly ordered motors match your originals. Jay

 

[Motopreserve]

Thanks Jay. Good info on the HK turnigy mixup. There is no info inside the motors, so for all we know they are all different Kvs

I actually ordered some other motors from the guy I got the FC and misc parts from. Better quality apparently, and I'll be curious to see how they work in comparison. I think when the new Turnigys arrive I'll trim down the shaft. This additional height is annoying and can only aid in further bending problems.

I knew this was a possibility when I first began flying, but now I'm thinking the bolt on adaptors make more sense since they cover the entire shaft - would protect it a bit more. Adds mass though too.

 

[Motopreserve]

Shaft Bend...

I just noticed that the bend seems to be in about the middle of the shaft - meaning it took the impact and bent along the plane where it meets the top of the bell. This makes sense, but is encouraging that the shaft itself, at only 3.17mm, is pretty strong toward the exposed top end. I crashed these things pretty hard, and if there was a weakness in the entire length of the shaft, it certainly would have been bent it elsewhere.

I would include a photo, but the bend is ever so slight. Maybe 1mm - 1.5mm. It may be able to bend back - I have heard of people straightening them. But it's so slight, I'm afraid I may not be able to get it perfect. If I end up trimming these shafts, it seems I could remove about 8mm from the overall length. Really not sure why this additional length is stock on these motors, I have never seen props that would require it.

Just found some replacement shafts (mostly from China) - it would be nice to have extras if I am going to continue my Kamikaze ways...

 

[Motopreserve]

Prop Balancing...

Well, the weather outside is frightful....

Perfect opportunity to spend some time balancing the extra props I have. I realized too late that I made the mistake of ordering a few different types of props. At first, I thought it would be a good way to find what I liked best - but now have determined that once I found what flew and balanced nicely, I should have just ordered several more sets of those same props. If you crash a few times (and you will!!!), you may find yourself with not enough props to keep replacing the same ones that break.

I had ordered a few sets of cheap props from HK when I made my first order - but had started out with yet another type purchased from Witespy (where I got the Multiwii board). The Witespy cheapies seemed more solid (uneducated assumption), so I used those first. I quickly went through those, breaking several like an apprentice stuntman. The Witespy props balanced fairly easily, but now it was time to balance the cheap HK...



I bought a recommended prop balancer right out of the gate when I first decided to get into this hobby. Seemed pointless to get something sub-par for something so important. So I went ahead and purchased the Top-Flite magnetic balancer. This thing is REALLY touchy, and seems to let you know when the prop is just right. I watched several how-to videos for balancing, and then set to work. As stated above, the Witespy version of the 10x4.5 props balanced fairly quickly, but the HK version has been a real PITA. The blade part is not so difficult to balance. I used scotch tape for counter-weight, and quickly got them balanced perfectly. The problem comes when you begin to balance the hub. The way the videos show it, you put CA or clear nail polish on the light side of the hub, so that when the prop is released in a vertical state, it stays put. If the hub is unbalanced, the prop will swing down to rest in the horizontal position, with the light side up.



The problem came when I had to put quite a large amount of CA on the light side, but that side still remained light. The other issue to watch for is when the CA wants to run before you can get the quick-dry spray on there. If the glue moves to one side or the other, you are now throwing off the blade balance again... UGH!

Round and round I have gone with this procedure - and frankly, it's the least fun part of this hobby for me. The good news is that since I have been doing this slowly, in my spare time over the past few days, I will have 8 perfectly balanced (albeit cheap) props ready to go for when the temperature rises above zero degrees again...

 

[COMike93yj]

Looking Good Scott!

Sorry for the lack of participation. I fell down the stairs on Thursday and really jacked up my knee (the one with the replacement not the leg that had ankle surgery). Excruciating pain but the xrays were negative for a large break. Radiologist still has to see if there are any issues with the metal bone in there.

Ordered all of my parts finally and awaiting them in the mail. Weather here has been unusually warm for the season. 60's or so with some wind. Not that I am complaining but we really could use a good dumping of snow.

I got my HQprops in the mail last week and am using the DuBro balancer....partly because I simply couldn't find a TopFlite one at a REASONABLE price and they get really good reviews as well. I got the go-ahead to get the TopFlite as well so when it arrives I will do a comparison between the two. I am balancing ALL of the props at once so that in the event of a catastrophic crash I will have the replacements ready to to just as you are doing!

Take care buddy!

Mike

 

[jbrumberg]

Mike- I was wondering what happened to you. I am glad that you did no further damage to the good leg?/bad leg?. That sucks, but I am glad you are back. You should be the one taking care. Take care- Jay

 

[Motopreserve]

Man, sorry to hear about the fall. I was just about to shoot you a PM to see how you were making out. Have to admit, when I saw your post above say "Ordered all my parts..." I was expecting to see you say for your new knee!!!! Glad you are just building a MR, and not a new appendage

This topflite I got was pretty cheap ($20). I think I am going to order some extra parts for it - some of the stops seem to be off-balance, which sort of defeats the purpose. Not sure how much the DuBro costs, but this one is so damn touchy that anything seems to throw it off. Probably better in the end to have something so sensitive - but I have found that it's best to work on a prop for a bit, then walk away, come back and do a little more, etc..

 

[jbrumberg]

I have a TopFlite too. The stops leave a lot to be desired, but with patience this thing works pretty well (at least with my modified set up for my X1 props). I guess I should try it out with "real" props. So Mike when are you going to see your radiologist to make sure about what is going on? I know all about guys like you. Jay:black_eyed:

 

[COMike93yj]

Thanks Fellas! I like the DuBro.....probably not quite as sensitive as the TopFlite but I will not know until it gets here. For prop balancing MAKE CERTAIN you don't have ANY air currents when you are going through the procedure.

I mentioned this earlier but I am an avid reloader. I found out the hard way early on that any air currents will screw up your measurements when throwing powder. ESPECIALLY with a sensitive beam balance. Hell even with the digital scale it can cause issues. The same holds true for balancing props!!!!

Still awaiting a call from the Radiologist. Things take time and I am taking it even EASIER now. The good news is that my ankle surgery is holding STRONG! They removed the cast and put me in a "cam boot" for walking around and they said "take it easy"....I am still using the crutches...more so for the knee but the ankle seems to be doing just fine! Thank GOD for that one! It is depressing and frustrating to have ANOTHER issue but will see how things go this week. If they knee is still jacked up and I don't have any plan of attack for it from the doc...I will be waltzing into the doctor's office next week. I also start PT next week so it will be nice to be armed with a PTs report on the knee if needed!

Mike

 

[jbrumberg]

I posted that I know all about guys like you. I do- so now because you're "rehabbing" and you do not want to put any additional strain on your body, you'll just load double loads and shoot off your porch. You take care now. I have enough to worry about. Jay

 

[Motopreserve]

You guys have me thinking...maybe I should make some stops for the Top Flite balancer. Wouldn't take but a few minutes on the old lathe. I could make them out of aluminum to save weight on the shaft. I think I could cut down on the stop size itself to make it close to the stock weight. The inconsistencies of these stops make me think that all my good effort could be wasted - if I am truing them to an off-balance balancer!!!

Mike,

To hell with the air currents! These things start rotating if I stand up from the desk!!!! It's THAT sensitive!!!

 

[jbrumberg]

Scott there are a couple of different designs for balancers that may lend themselves to what you are thinking. I saw a design somewhere that paid particularly close attention to balancing the stops. The ferrous bar if it's straight should in theory be balanced. What else needs to be balanced if the ferrous bar is straight and centered with the ends?