FPV setup, Do these components make sense ?

BorisS

BorisS

Drone Enthusiast

yeehaanow

yeehaanow

Member
Unless you want to go very long range I would suggest saving your money and get 1 tx/rx, no eagle eyes, and get the cloverleaf antennae combo instead, and go to 5.8ghz to avoid needing a saw filter altogether.

I did a test of a 500mx 5.8ghz w/cloverleaf. The heli was inside the car (all closed up, and about 300 meters away w/ a perfectly clear video signal. i'm sure it would go farther but I ran out of road!)
 

plingboot

plingboot

Member
boris, i've been doing a lot of reading on fpvlab this subject and fwiw, i've gone down the 5.8ghz route with immersionrc components.

using ezosd, and thier 5.8ghz vtx with video areial systems blue beam antennas and fatshark 5v fpv cam and dominators with built in 5.8ghz rx

the immersionrc gear is designed to hook-up very easily and it just works. so far i cant say enough good things about it.

however i'm seriously considering a switch to an ezuhf 433mhz (459 for the uk) for my radio link and 2.4ghz for video, with blue beam antennas.

the serious fpv pilots use this set-up for rock solid radio and video, 5.8ghz suffers in built-up areas.

for a multirotor bluebeam or cloverleaf/skewplannar wheel antennas give the best mix of range and coverage and the general opionion is that diversity and/or antenna tracking isnt required.

have a look a the team black sheep website for more info. trappy is the guy who flys his zephyr all over the world, doing some pretty amazing stuff, but stunts aside you'll see that they've done a lot of research into what works every time to maximise safety and range.

clicky
clicky
clicky
 
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RCNut

RCNut

Member
Hi Boris

First of all, both antennas are receiving antennas so I presume you plan to use them with the Eagle Eyes diversity receiver. The problem is they are both different types of antenna style designed to pick up different polarity signals. The 8dBi patch is a fixed vertical polarised receiving antenna (or horizontal depending on the mounting) designed to be matched to a vertical whip (dipole) antenna at the transmitter. On the other hand, the 10 dBic antenna is a right hand circular (RHCP) receiving antenna designed to be matched to a RHCP cloverleaf antenna at the transmitter. You wouldnt normally use them both on the same system and you wont get best performance by mixing them together.

Whichever one you use, it must match the polarisation of your transmitting antenna so you'll need to choose the polarisation of your system. Vertically polarised systems are very prone to signal losses when the polarisation changes such as when the aircraft banks or when reflected signals are received. Circular polarised signals arent prone to these issues and are generally the best system for FPV use.

Id recommend you buy the IBCrazy 1.3 GHz Bluebeam Whip Antenna Set (RHCP). This will give you good performance with minimal signal loss. With a 1000 mw transmitter at 1.2 GHz those antennas will probably out-range your RC system so you may not need the patch or the Eagle Eyes diversity receiver. However if you do, the 1.3 GHz 10dBic RHCP Crosshair Antenna you listed above should match well with the bluebeam antennas. Put the 3 element bluebeam whip on your transmitter and connect both the 4 element bluebeam antenna and the patch antenna to the inputs of your diversity receiver. The patch will give you good range in the direction you aim it and the 4 element bluebeam antenna will give you good 360 degree general coverage.

Personally I use 5.8 GHz for my FPV system but you have to make sure you stay line-of-sight. 1.3 GHz isnt quite so critical.

Ian







BorisS said:
Hi,

I want to order these components. I am especially not sure about the Antenna if they make sense.
Can one of you comment if this setup would work.

**** 1.2GHz Lawmate 8Ch Wireless A/V Receiver UPGRADED SAW FILTER****$79.99$159.98
**** 1.2GHz 1000mW 8Ch Wireless A/V Transmitter Module****$93.99$93.99
**** Eagle Eyes FPV Station****$80.99$80.99
**** 1.3 GHz 10dBic RHCP Crosshair Antenna****$69.99$69.99
1.3GHz Optimized 8dBi Patch Antenna - SMA Male$46.99$46.99



Thanks

Boris
Click to expand...
 
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BorisS

BorisS

Drone Enthusiast
Hmm I have 5.8ghz with the cloverleaf Immersion 600mw diversity etc, didn't get a patch antenna yet for it, put TX RX clover and i must say depending on the copter its on i get max 50 to 100 meters. Not so happy with that so I was aiming at the 1.2 models.

Boris
 


RCNut

RCNut

Member
It sounds like there is a problem with your system. Im using 5.8 GHz and two homemade cloverleafs. My TX is only 200 mw and Im easily getting 600 meters plus without using a patch. How high above your copter do you mount the antenna. There should be reasonable space (50mm or so) otherwise performance is affected.

Ian
 

BorisS

BorisS

Drone Enthusiast
Thanks Ian i knew i got something wrong concerning the antennas. The only issue i have with the IBCrazy 1.3 GHz Bluebeam Whip Antenna Set (RHCP) is that its pretty big for the two small fpv birds i am building. I couldn't get the dimension anywere but from the pics it seems like 4 times the the size of the 5.8ghz.
 

RCNut

RCNut

Member
I have a set of cloverleafs I made here for a 1.01GHz system that I havent used yet. They are about 160 mm across at 1.10 GHz which are quite large - too large for my quad but manageable for experimenting on my Tricopter. The size is one factor of why i havent used them yet.

Ian
 

BorisS

BorisS

Drone Enthusiast
Japp Ill try a different mountingt position. I tried to get it to the lostest point on the kopter ending with the landing gear barely touching the ground at take off. But not on the landing gear away from any carbon.

Boris
 

BorisS

BorisS

Drone Enthusiast
Team BlackSheep system setup philosophies

Start with the bare essentials and add equipment one step at a time. after each new equipment was added do proper range- and stress tests.
Do not fly with a video system that is capable of outperforming your R/C system in terms of range
Do not fly with a R/C frequency higher than the video frequency (e.g. 2.4GHz R/C, 900MHz video).
Monitor the vitals of your plane (R/C and battery). Flying with a digital link without RSSI is dangerous.
Do not use 2.4GHz R/C unless you fly well within its range limits, in noise-free environments and always within LOS. since this is most likely never the case, it is recommended to not use 2.4GHz R/C systems.
Do not fly at the limits of video. if you see noise in your picture, turn around and buy a higher-gain antenna before going out further.
Shielded wires or twisted cables only. anything else picks up RF and can cause problems
When using powerful R/C transmitters, make sure your ground station equipment is properly shielded
Adding RTH to an unreliable system does not increase the chances of getting your plane back. Work on making your system reliable without RTH first, then add RTH as an additional safety measure if you must. At this point you will most likely realize RTH is not required.
Avoid powering the VTx directly. step-up or step-down the voltage and provide a constant level of power to your VTx, otherwise make sure your VTx runs reliably until the battery dies. Try to avoid 12V VTx on 3S systems.
Do not power your camera directly unless it works along the complete voltage range of your battery. step-up or step-down the voltage and provide a constant level of power to your camera. make sure your camera runs until your battery dies.
A single battery system is safer. 2 batteries in parallel to mitigate further sources of failure. reverse current protection is recommended, but usually not feasible
For maximum video range, use 2.4GHz video with high-gain antennas
When flying with R/C buddies that fly on 2.4GHz, or when flying in cities, it is perfectly possible to use 2.4GHz video provided you stick to the channels that do not lie in their band (ch5 & 8 for lawmate)
Do not use diversity as a replacement for pointing your antennas. diversity should be used to mitigate polarization issues
Improving the antenna gain on the receiver end is better than increasing the output power (except in RF-noisy areas). 500mW is plenty of power, more tx power causes more issues with RF on your plane.
Do not buy the cheapest equipment unless it is proven to work reliably (e.g. capacitors falling off, multitudes of bugfix firmware updates, community hacks and mods are a good indicator of poor quality and something you do NOT want to buy). Saving $50 is simply not worth losing your plane.



Okay than lets start from the beginning my radio runs on 2.4 not optimal for FPV or both actually do, for the following builds http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?2284-2x-Hoverthings-VC-450-FPV-build/page2.
I havent bougth the graupner yet so i could get something different. Any suggestions a which radio or should i go for a mod like dragon link ?

I am wondering than most of the OP CC VC 450 builds are going a risky way with their 2.4 radios and 1.2 or 1.3 TX RX for video ?

Thanks

Boris
 
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plingboot

plingboot

Member
i'd go for (when i have the cash) the immersionrc ezUHF Tx module and the ezUHF diversity Rx and a pair of 'sander style' diy antennas (sander is part of the immersionrc company)

this way you'd be on 433mHz control and 2.4Ghz or 5.8Ghz Video

this clip is one of TBS' USA tour films - the zephyr stuff is fantastic, but there's also a bit showing their fpv quad with ezUHF kit…
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BorisS

BorisS

Drone Enthusiast
Is it always a problem to have a 2.4 radio and 2.4 video system running parallel ? Or should i just go 2.4 radio and 5.8 video and get some atenna tracking going ?
 

plingboot

plingboot

Member
The main chaps on FPVlab seem to discourage both diversity and antenna tracking for short range stuff.

Having thought about it i can see their point. Tracking could/would be useful when using a high gain antenna on a long distance FPV flight - using the tracker to make slight changes rather than huge swinging movements of the antenna.

Alex at AVS suggests that the SPW/CL antenna pair should be good for at least 1km and coverage is almost complete (ie all around you) except for (i think) directly over head which would make it fine for quad fpv flight. I'm not sure i'd trust my spektrum to give me anywhere near that for radio control.

If money were no object the TBS recommended UHF and 2.4ghz set-up seems to be the most robust. Next step down is probably 2.4ghz radio and 5.8ghz video.

The main take home lesson is start simple and grow as required.
 
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BorisS

BorisS

Drone Enthusiast
plingboot said:
i'd go for (when i have the cash) the immersionrc ezUHF Tx module and the ezUHF diversity Rx and a pair of 'sander style' diy antennas (sander is part of the immersionrc company)

this way you'd be on 433mHz control and 2.4Ghz or 5.8Ghz Video

this clip is one of TBS' USA tour films - the zephyr stuff is fantastic, but there's also a bit showing their fpv quad with ezUHF kit…
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Click to expand...

Great thanks not getting it though the EZUHF is compatible with any radio, cant find any list with which it works compared to the scherrer UHF page and the Receiver has not PPM out put am i getting this right ?

Thanks

Boris
 
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plingboot

plingboot

Member
Don't think ezUHF has a PPM out… manual here

The spektrum connection is a hack - requiring a s-video connector and a 3.5mm mono plug.
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BorisS

BorisS

Drone Enthusiast

plingboot

plingboot

Member
i'd go for THESE antennas - available in whip and direct to sma connector types

i'd also consider THIS video receiver instead of the immersion duo and if there were significant issues which required diversity go for the duo and a patch antenna of some kind at a later date.

If i'm correct the TBS gear is europe based too…
 

BorisS

BorisS

Drone Enthusiast
Okay cool thanks plingboot,

I got a skeptrum 6xi and the Immersion components ezUHF.

Got two Lawmate of the lawmate 2.4 ghz tuned receiver.

2x Lawmate 2.4 ghz 1000 mw Viedo TX

Got a cloverleaf setup and a single cloverleaf that i will try with [h=1]2.4 GHz 10dBic RHCP Crosshair Antenna[/h]
So I have ope complete setup for one bird now can and later add diversity if need. If everything work nicely i will get a secon Immersion ezUHF setup for the second bird.

Thanks

Boris
 

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