World's Most Overpriced Multi

[Str8 Up]

Looking at this video the stability of this $50K+ multi looks pretty sad. Looks like the perfect purchase for someone with more money than brains. I heard they just sold one in the U.S.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQdM0IgzwCc

 

[SleepyC]

That didn’t look that bad considering they were indoors in a area that probably had the prop wash causing all kinds of turbulence. And if you read up on it, it’s purposely designed to accept all kinds of pro video inputs and outputs. modular, cases, can be a job or flown.. it’s not intended for the public, but just production studios. And $50K is nothing. I have a few friends building $100K rigs for movie studios... so actually that’s not THAT bad.

 

[sixshooterstang]

You can get a extremely stable RTF platform to fly the RED cameras alot cheaper though.

 

[SleepyC]

You can get a extremely stable RTF platform to fly the RED cameras alot cheaper though.

Oh for sure, but I think for that $50K, you are paying for the "5 min from crate to air, modular pieces that all fit together, hand held jib, the incorporated wireless HD (which on it’s own can be $2000+) and the rest of the features and cases. I bet even building a rig to so everything they are proclaiming it would be in the $20K range. But the think is movie studios don;t want to build anything, they want to get the shot.

So hey, if they can get the price and sell the units more power to them!

 

[Str8 Up]

Prop wash! Turbulence! You must be kidding! They are using wire rope isolaters to shield the gimbal from prop resonation. If they actually knew what they were doing, they could hard mount the gimbal to the airframe. Stang is right - huge waste of money when equivalent, lower cost options are available. There is one undeniable fact in business, the option that meets the need at the lowest cost wins, always. If your buddies are spending $100K for movie rigs, they won't be in business very long. I have rigs that fly the Arri Alexa at one third that cost.

 

[sixshooterstang]

Really you dont need such a large platform anyhow. An octo is really as much as anyone ever needs. All you need is a sharp fixed focal distance lens (lighter that way or can be) and a very compact camera with a full sized 4k+ sensor.

HECK! why isnt anyone flying the BMD 4k camera? It does full 4k on a Super 35 sensor and the body without lens weighs over 500 grams less than the RED Epic.

 

[yeehaanow]

Nobody is flying the Blackmagic 4K because it isn't out yet. As soon as it is, i will be flying it, and on a much less expensive setup than this.

 

[Motopreserve]

There is one undeniable fact in business, the option that meets the need at the lowest cost wins, always.

i know many of you guys are pro film/video guys, but I can tell you emphatically that the above statement is often not true for the production industry. My girlfriend has done production accounting for the past 15 years (both features and tv - just about every major studio), and the amount of waste in the film/tv business is staggering. It's a culture of waste really. 1 fun example would be a "box rental" paid to lighting guys. Deals made to pay them a weekly rate for "supplies" that A) the studio could buy outright themselves if cost were the only issue and B) don't actually exist! They are phantom boxes that just allow the crew members to make a little extra each week.

I know this is a "deal" worked out between the UPM and the unions, but the studios willingly sign off on this knowing it could never be considered 'the lowest cost.'

if we all could have only a fraction of the money wasted by studios - we would all be crashing $100k copters on purpose, just to watch the flames....

 

[tstrike]

i know many of you guys are pro film/video guys, but I can tell you emphatically that the above statement is often not true for the production industry. My girlfriend has done production accounting for the past 15 years (both features and tv - just about every major studio), and the amount of waste in the film/tv business is staggering. It's a culture of waste really. 1 fun example would be a "box rental" paid to lighting guys. Deals made to pay them a weekly rate for "supplies" that A) the studio could buy outright themselves if cost were the only issue and B) don't actually exist! They are phantom boxes that just allow the crew members to make a little extra each week.

I know this is a "deal" worked out between the UPM and the unions, but the studios willingly sign off on this knowing it could never be considered 'the lowest cost.'

if we all could have only a fraction of the money wasted by studios - we would all be crashing $100k copters on purpose, just to watch the flames....

I'm one of those "lighting guys" (non union) been a Key Grip for 30 years and can't remember how many pieces of hardware, nuts and bolts, tools etc. have been given away on jobs. At any one time I personally carry around 15K worth of stuff all for a crappy 50 bucks a day box rental. Don't want to rent my box? Pay someone to make the trips to home depot or specialty hardware suppliers to get the bits you need, then pay someone to return the bits you thought you needed but didn't. To someone that doesn't make their living in the industry, sure it seems like a waste, but if the whole production is waiting for some p.a. to get back with a handful of 3/8" bolts or some tools to take off a door or fix a busted down picture car, that's waste.

I met these guys at nab and they were the only multicopter guys who cared to talk about their product, all the other manufacturers were to busy getting bl#wn by all the wannabe's. 50K may seem like a lot but it's all hand made carbon fibre with everything you need to do aerials for major motion pictures. The guys were ask to display at the red booth should say something about the quality of their product. 50 grand to you may seem like a lot but that's just talking out of your own pocket.

 

[Motopreserve]

Tstrike,

if you're one of the guys who actually HAS the box of tricks, then you know you are NOT the grip I'm talking about. But I'm sure you've been on productions where those boxes didn't actually exist (for everyone - and I was also talking double your day rate!), but were rather a way for the UPM to work a deal - let's not even get into the Teamster's "fuel" cash deals . I of course meant no offense to those of you that are not bilking the production and keeping the production flowing. But I know you must've seen it, no?

the stories I've heard have been amazing - and baffling at the same time.

So I don't find it hard to believe that a studio might put more money into a product than may be absolutely required - especially if as you say, it covers ALL the bases and gives peace of mind for any possible filming situation. It just seems to me an industry that at times operates outside the basic economics theory that St8 Up mentions (which usually holds true for most industries).

That being said, didn't mean to pull this off-topic.

 

[Str8 Up]

As someone who does aerials for a living, I can tell you that more often than not, my day rate is always a bone of contention. This applies to both independent films as well as larger budget productions. I have gotten calls from major studios that didn't want to pay Flying Cams day rate for a feature. So your theory hasn't held up in practice for me personally.

 

[Motopreserve]

I don't doubt for a second that you've been negotiated down on a day rate, even if your quote was fair. Being a recording engineer for 18 years, I'm not sure I EVER got paid my fair and quoted rate (despite watching the label guys spend hundreds on sushi dinners - all recoupable from the artist!).

But unfortunately I have also witnessed (through TV/film production accounting department) scenarios where overspending happens, even on the same production that may be negotiating vendors rates down in other areas.

Maybe I'm totally off base here. But having seen apartments and cars (with monthly parking) rented in NYC for actors that will never see them - because they have also been rented estates in westchester and are carted by transpo every day, seems a little wasteful to me.

My point was, having seen some of this, I do not find it impossible to believe that a studio might pay what I, and possibly others on this board (the people that rattled off cheaper, competent rigs in this thread specifically), feel is a higher price than is absolutely necessary.

For the record: I'm not trying to stir up s#%t about this. I have known (and consider myself - albeit in a different industry) hard working crew members who provide good work. I've just seen some ridiculous crap get paid for.

Here's hoping that you get the next gig when you quote for a rig that can get the job done for less than $50k!

 

[tstrike]

No offense taken moto, there does at times seem like a lot of waste in the industry, especially to someone not directly involved. But you're going by second hand info from someone in an office and not on the set (unless it's friday). Yeah sure there's scams, I know gaffers who've sold the same roll of cto enough times to damn near put a kid through college.
Back on topic, what you're not seeing in the video is the ground station setup that comes with the 50K. Total pro grade stuff, all hd, probably an uneducated guess would be around 15 grand to put together. The gimbal in the vid is a servo driven (which a long time ago in april of 2013 was state of the art). The builder said they were looking into making a brushless gimbal, at the time the movi had just come out along with ph's halo and all that was still new. 50k may seem like a lot but when you've got the government giving out dhs grants to local law enforcement to pay 100 grand for a trex600 heli with a spycam, this things a turnkey business. All you'd have to do is grow the balls to fly it.

if you want to see overpriced go look at dragon fly http://www.draganfly.com/ These guys tapped into the grant money thing, but if you really want to crack up, click on their toy link at the top of the page-HYSTERICAL!!!

 

[Motopreserve]

I think my girlfriend paid for that roll!!! . Yep, her stories were amazing - and she never went to set (or almost never), just caught a lot of the zeros being added in the fine print.

I really don't know how these high end rigs price out. Ironically, I had just seen a video with the dragonfly stuff the other day, and thought "to hell with Hollywood, defense $ is where it's gotta be at!" I'm sure no one would debate there have been some hefty sums wasted on some military items. Plenty of worthy stuff, and a fair share of... Well, not so much.

I love how the industry is moving ahead so rapidly. Not always as a consumer (I like to think my modest investment can be relevant for at least a week or two), but as a curious fan of technology.

I don't doubt that copter kicks ***, especially when compared to what I'm putting together. But when the numbers get that high, I defer to you all to explain what goes into it. The finer side of the video gear baffles me, and the anxiety of dropping it from the sky makes my ears ring...

 

[jes1111]

Who says that something sold for $50K has to have $50K-worth of components in it? What about pre- and post-sales support? R&D costs? tooling costs? salaries? rent? etc...etc...etc...

 

[Str8 Up]

My only point is that this stuff is evolving at warp speed and a smart business person must look closely at the ROE for an investment that will be outdated in a matter of months. I have rigs that perform better than this one at lower capital invested.

 

[Stacky]

My only point is that this stuff is evolving at warp speed and a smart business person must look closely at the ROE for an investment that will be outdated in a matter of months. I have rigs that perform better than this one at lower capital invested.

ROE is why the price is what it is......

How do you know how that rig performs?, all you have seen is it hovering in a fixed space for a couple of minutes. That doesnt tell you anything at all.

 

[Str8 Up]

Based on their demo reel.