Flying Tivo
Member
He needs a little more open space than his front yard to test RTH feature!
Felipe
Felipe
Wookong-M on a Y6
- Thread starter RTRyder
- Start date
Droider
Drone Enthusiast
Thanks ken.. Are you saying the camera gimbal control is better or is it just that the whole thing as a whole makes it a better fly and better video results?
Am just starting my ADX3HL and will need to go try Geoffs at QC.uk he also says its the dogs jobber..
Again thanks for your in depth reply I am sure it is appreciated by everyone interested in the FC
Dave
Am just starting my ADX3HL and will need to go try Geoffs at QC.uk he also says its the dogs jobber..
Again thanks for your in depth reply I am sure it is appreciated by everyone interested in the FC
Dave
BorisS
Drone Enthusiast
Hi Ken,
would you be willing to share your Setting for the AV 130 on the WK-M ? My tilt axis is working nicely but roll is not doing what it is supposed to. Since my servo from the new AV 130 blew at the first startup i had to use the servo from my AV 200 which got a couple punches before and i think the week spot is the servo. If i could test your settings I would be assured that i have to exchange it !
Thanks
Boris
would you be willing to share your Setting for the AV 130 on the WK-M ? My tilt axis is working nicely but roll is not doing what it is supposed to. Since my servo from the new AV 130 blew at the first startup i had to use the servo from my AV 200 which got a couple punches before and i think the week spot is the servo. If i could test your settings I would be assured that i have to exchange it !
Thanks
Boris
I doubt my settings will do you any good, the AV130 I have under the Y6 is my old one with Hyperion servos which is a completely different setup than the new one with Savox servos. I did try the new one for 1 1/2 flights before it went down due to the motors being turned off and it wasn't at all happy with the settings for the old 130. Never did get a chance to try tuning the gimbal settings to get it working right.
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Current status of the Y6 project
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I'm waiting for parts from two places that tracking says should arrive tomorrow. Somehow in all the testing of the frame over the course of the last 3 weeks with three different flight controllers I managed to do some damage to the landing gear legs of the Droidworx L/G, the other day while working on it on the bench the rear support broke in two. Along with that I also need a couple of the support struts as I busted some in the fall and used the ones from the old L/G to replace the broken ones on the new L/G now back on the AD6. I also ordered another battery mount bracket so I can run dual packs again on the AD6 having stolen the second one for use on the Y6.
The other order is some frame parts that will allow me to reconfigure the Y6 to a flat hex. For whatever reason this particular Y6 frame has a very subtle wobble to it even in dead calm conditions and it has done it to some degree with all three flight controllers that have been on the frame so I have to assume the problem lies within some aspect of the frame and its dimensions. To test that theory I'm going to make it into a flat hex and see if the wobble can be completely eliminated with the WKM controller. I will say the problem is least noticeable with the WKM in calm conditions but when a gust of wind hits it's magnified greatly to the point in a strong enough gust it almost looks like its out of control. That's probably due to the current gain settings I have in it trying to find a spot where the WKM could overcome the frames tendency towards severe wobble in extreme conditions, does really well about 95% of the time, its the last 5% that won't go away regardless of flight controller or settings and it shows up in the video recordings.
Rather than chase the problem trying to modify the Y6 I can quickly and easily convert to a flat hex and see what happens. If the tendency stays then I'll start looking at making changes in the frame dimensions and a few other ideas I have. If it fixes the problem I'll consider if I want to go back to the Y setup and experiment with possible fixes. The other part of the decision is I can make a better comparison to my MK Hexa if the WKM is also setup as a flat hex, apples to apples vs. apples to oranges!
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What I think so far, Wookong-M vs. MikroKopter
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What I'm finding is the DJI has much better stability in autoleveing mode than MK does, plus it has the ability to turn it off via TX switch, the MK is on all the time. For some folks that may not be a useful feature but it does add a bit more flexibility to the DJI platform.
Camera gimbal control from the DJI controller seems to be much better than MK, combined with flying in ATTI mode I can get really nice steady video from a well used AV130 that has issues staying still when used with either of my MK Hexa. The flip side of that is the DJI didn't particularly like the my new AV130 which has the much faster Savox servos instead of the Hyperions on the old one but to be fair I only had it on for two flights while I was still working out the gain settings for the Y6 frame and didn't spend any time trying to dial in the gimbal settings for it. After the crash I removed the newer AV130 and put it back on the AD6 until I get a lot more comfortable with the WKM.
The DJI GPS is slower than the MK to acquire satellites and doesn't appear to have a battery backup so it has to reacquire each time it is powered on regardless of whether it is a couple minutes between flights or a couple days. With the MK once it has acquired satellite lock at a location subsequent power ups get a solid GPS lock literally within seconds thanks to caching them on the GPS board. The time for the DJI to acquire and lock can vary from a bit over 30 seconds to several minutes, depends on conditions and how many sats are overhead at any given time. I have noticed it takes considerably longer on overcast days. Once the DJI has GPS lock it will position hold as well as MK, perhaps even a bit better, very hard to tell fom just ground observation and I haven't had a chance to do a proper back to back comparison in the field yet. A big plus for DJI is the failsafe mode that when properly setup will allow the setting of one of two modes in the event of a loss of TX signal or manual triggering from a TX switch. One mode is hover where the multi will maintain a hover right where it is when it enters failsafe mode; the other is return to home. In RTH the multi will rise to an altitude of 20 meters and fly back to where it acquired full GPS lock which should be the takeoff point if you waited for full lock before flying. At that point if it doesn't regain the TX signal or stays in failsafe mode for more than 30 seconds it will autoland itself, a very useful feature if you happen to have expensive camera gear hanging underneath.
One big advantage MK currently has is the feature set of the software, it comes complete with the ability to do waypoint GPS flight along with a lot of bells and whistles like Point of Interest that will keep the camera focused on a set location while flying waypoints. Also has a "carefree" mode that will keep the control response as though the frame was tail-in regardless of the actual orientation. Being able to fly in all orientations I find it very distracting and confusing to see the MK responding to commands "tail-in" when my eyes are telling me its not in that orientation so I don't use it.
One area where the DJI absolutely excels far beyond Mk and any other flight controller I've ever used is their altitude hold. Unlike MK its not something you can turn on and off, it's part of ATTI mode, but it works so flawlessly you don't mind the fact that it's always on. You can take off with ATTI mode engaged and climb to a given height and then put the throttle mid stick, the multi will then just sit there with no vertical movement unless there is a VERY strong gusty breeze blowing then it might sink a meter or so but it then climbs right back to where it was when things calm down. Ascent and descent is easily controlled by just moving the throttle up or down and it is very linear in both directions. The amount you move the stick determines how fast it goes up or down and the rate is pretty much exactly the same in both directions as near as I can tell, put the throttle back to mid stick and it stops and stays at that point.
I've only had the DJI flying on the Y6 for a bit over a week now and haven't had a chance to test things as thoroughly as I would like but this is what I've seen so far. For a version 1.0 product I'd give it an A rating, I haven't seen any bad traits or tendency to flip or lose control as I've experienced with some other V1.0 flight controllers I own. Some folks are experiencing problems with overheating of the BEC circuits on the ESC's, mine have all stayed at normal operating temperatures during a couple hours of test flights so far. From a reliability standpoint I'd have to rate it as good or better than MK. From a features perspective MK has a big headstart and corresponding advantage at the moment. DJI has been building autopilot systems for RC Helis for a few years now and the Wookong-M system is derived directly from those systems which do have all the features MK does and then some. It may just be a matter of porting the code over into the multirotor world to give the Wookong-M similar capabilities to what MK currently has, don't expect it to be cheap if they do though.
Ken
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Droider
Drone Enthusiast
BorisS
Drone Enthusiast
Hi Ken,
okay thanks you have a point ! Once i get the new servo i will dig into this.
I am im a similar situation. I had the Hexa flying a couple times perfectly in my neighbors garden. All i had on my face was i big grin. At the moment were wind hits the bird it starts wobbling. This can also be seen 2 meters and below from the ground. Compared to my MK I am not getting the performance with the WK-M in windy conditions. I am close to having tried all the gain setting in 5 % steps from 100 % to 200% but i just cant get is right and i strongly doubt that the truth is somewhere between 5% value. Started playing with the I and V damping parameters but this also didn't really bring a lot of success. Another thing that i noticed that once more weight is added to the copter the gain settings have to be changed again. At the moment it seems to me that flying with without cam or gimbal off would require me to find three different settings that I apply in the need situation. Similar to what you mentioned ( also with having in the back of my head these promo vids from dji, were they fly smaller copters) I am starting to believe that my frame or the parameter steps, logic in the FC is not design to deal with heavier and diameter 900mm birds.
I took the Hexa to my parts reseller today and we made a couple flight just me he was also impressed by the speed of autoleveling and ease of controlling the WK-M
My situation with GPS was worse at the beginning, it took 5 to 10 min to get a double red blick, if Im not mistaking 6 sats. What really changed the game for me was shielding the cables from my graupner smc 19 to the MC with CAT 7 shielding. I still dont get a 30 sec lock but 1 min, is already an improvement !
Additional points.
I am really not happy with this LED indicating the status of the copter. Today flying the bright sun and it coming from my back directly hitting the copter. I was not able to distinguish between 2 yellow flashed and one. At times red and yellow were already hard to keep apart. Now this was in a hovering height of 7-8 meters maybe.
For me to strap some 3000 Euro cam equipment onto the WK-M I just need more info and readable clearly seeable info, what state the bird is in. Beginning with the battery status i want to see ah 15.7 volts japp no risk ill take it once more around the house. I know that they are planning something for this, but what i caught on is that again the battery status will be indicated by the LED or similar behavior like with the failsafe will be executed once voltage runs low. These are not solutions in my eyes just compromises. I dont understand the unit must be having and handling all the information to indicate the status with the LED, why not open a port and let the information be transfered by a XBee module for example and be interpreted by some sort of LCD disply with simple icons etc.
From a customers side and service side I must say MK and WK-M, have never delt with hover fly, are at par. Robert from DJI USA is being helpful and has a lot to do at the moment and some guy from RCgroups were i never found out if he is directly linked to DJI really helped me when my unit was bricked. But jesus guys if i bring out a product i just sit down 1-2 people dealing with customer questions and have them work together with development. I bet who ever tests the units on different configurations has found good setting for a hexa octo etc. why not share. Even if additional variables play a role this info will still be helpful and at least give guidance.
I also don't understand why certain parameters are included in the configuration tool that can be changed and mingled with but there is no explanation what they actually do. for exampe advanced parameters I and V damping. One has to spend the time in forums to figure them out and than hope they do the same as for the ACE one model, in which manual they are explained.
Hope this didnt get to long. I am still fully motivated to get the last little problems wobbles out of my WK-M and i like the product.
Boris
okay thanks you have a point ! Once i get the new servo i will dig into this.
I am im a similar situation. I had the Hexa flying a couple times perfectly in my neighbors garden. All i had on my face was i big grin. At the moment were wind hits the bird it starts wobbling. This can also be seen 2 meters and below from the ground. Compared to my MK I am not getting the performance with the WK-M in windy conditions. I am close to having tried all the gain setting in 5 % steps from 100 % to 200% but i just cant get is right and i strongly doubt that the truth is somewhere between 5% value. Started playing with the I and V damping parameters but this also didn't really bring a lot of success. Another thing that i noticed that once more weight is added to the copter the gain settings have to be changed again. At the moment it seems to me that flying with without cam or gimbal off would require me to find three different settings that I apply in the need situation. Similar to what you mentioned ( also with having in the back of my head these promo vids from dji, were they fly smaller copters) I am starting to believe that my frame or the parameter steps, logic in the FC is not design to deal with heavier and diameter 900mm birds.
I took the Hexa to my parts reseller today and we made a couple flight just me he was also impressed by the speed of autoleveling and ease of controlling the WK-M
My situation with GPS was worse at the beginning, it took 5 to 10 min to get a double red blick, if Im not mistaking 6 sats. What really changed the game for me was shielding the cables from my graupner smc 19 to the MC with CAT 7 shielding. I still dont get a 30 sec lock but 1 min, is already an improvement !
Additional points.
I am really not happy with this LED indicating the status of the copter. Today flying the bright sun and it coming from my back directly hitting the copter. I was not able to distinguish between 2 yellow flashed and one. At times red and yellow were already hard to keep apart. Now this was in a hovering height of 7-8 meters maybe.
For me to strap some 3000 Euro cam equipment onto the WK-M I just need more info and readable clearly seeable info, what state the bird is in. Beginning with the battery status i want to see ah 15.7 volts japp no risk ill take it once more around the house. I know that they are planning something for this, but what i caught on is that again the battery status will be indicated by the LED or similar behavior like with the failsafe will be executed once voltage runs low. These are not solutions in my eyes just compromises. I dont understand the unit must be having and handling all the information to indicate the status with the LED, why not open a port and let the information be transfered by a XBee module for example and be interpreted by some sort of LCD disply with simple icons etc.
From a customers side and service side I must say MK and WK-M, have never delt with hover fly, are at par. Robert from DJI USA is being helpful and has a lot to do at the moment and some guy from RCgroups were i never found out if he is directly linked to DJI really helped me when my unit was bricked. But jesus guys if i bring out a product i just sit down 1-2 people dealing with customer questions and have them work together with development. I bet who ever tests the units on different configurations has found good setting for a hexa octo etc. why not share. Even if additional variables play a role this info will still be helpful and at least give guidance.
I also don't understand why certain parameters are included in the configuration tool that can be changed and mingled with but there is no explanation what they actually do. for exampe advanced parameters I and V damping. One has to spend the time in forums to figure them out and than hope they do the same as for the ACE one model, in which manual they are explained.
Hope this didnt get to long. I am still fully motivated to get the last little problems wobbles out of my WK-M and i like the product.
Boris
Last edited by a moderator:
Great Info Guys thanks very much
I am leaning towards the WKM at the moment.
Im not sure if i want to undergo teh steep learning curve of the MK alternative although i am very interested in some of there features that the WKM doesnt have.
Plus i dont want to pay the DJI prices for teh Waypoint features if teh AceOne is anything to go buy.
Maybe i can find a used Mk system.....hmmmmm.
Cheers
Ben
I am leaning towards the WKM at the moment.
Im not sure if i want to undergo teh steep learning curve of the MK alternative although i am very interested in some of there features that the WKM doesnt have.
Plus i dont want to pay the DJI prices for teh Waypoint features if teh AceOne is anything to go buy.
Maybe i can find a used Mk system.....hmmmmm.
Cheers
Ben
Yeah, I think it's pretty darn good for a V1.0 product, took me many months of tinkering with the MK Hexa to get the same results I managed to produce in less than a week with the DJI. I think once they get some feedback and continue to refine the software it will only get better. I know I can get better results than what I have already as I'm still tweaking the settings and learning how changes to each affect things. It's different than tuning an MK, that's for sure!
I wasn't entirely happy with the way the Y6 was working, it was fine for about 90% of the conditions it flew it but at the extreme end in that last 10% it was very unstable, much more so than the MK in similar conditions. Yesterday I converted the Y6 to a flat hexa and rebuilt the Droidworx landing gear using the taller V3 landing leg plates. I got a chance to test it out a bit and start figuring out the gain settings before the thunderstorms rolling through right now hit. Initial impression is that it's much better in that last 10% where the Y6 couldn't cope. I had it in GPS and altitude hold at tree top height in very gusty winds as the front was moving in and it held really well, it got pushed around a bit but stayed in position much better than the MK AD6 and the flat hexa didn't wobble and weave badly like the Y6 did. A little bumpy from what I see in the video but nothing like what I saw from the Y6.
I probably won't get a chance to do any more flying today but I'm getting close to having it as good as it can get with the current firmware. It seems to favor smaller and lighter multis at the moment, when I had it on my MK frame quad testbed it flew very nicely on default settings. On the 26 inch heavy lift hexa the gain settings are close to 3X the default settings to make it as stable as the small quad was so I think there's room for improvement on how they deal with bigger and heavier frames. Even so, for a first release to be able to get those kinds of video results before its even fully dialed in is very impressive.
Ken
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Right now I'm a bit over 300% on roll and pitch, 280% on Yaw, and 200 on altitude. I also have the two advanced settings turned up to 150% and 130%. From what I see in the GoPro video from the last flight I need to back down the pitch gain a bit and probably the advanced settings as well. I don't yet have a good grasp of the differences changing the advanced settings make but raising them seems to allow lowering the main gains some and it also appears to stiffen the response to control stick movement as the settings go higher. The video got a bit jerky and jumpy in spots as the controller snapped it back to level after control inputs where it was a lot smoother with lower settings.
I think to do it right I need to take a half day and go to a big field with the netbook computer and the WKM Hexa and just keep fine tuning until its as good as it can possibly get. Trying to do it here at the house is not the best conditions to be doing that sort of thing and it takes 3 times as long.
Ken
No, I don't think so. In the rebuild to flat hexa I added another battery bracket so I can double up the 5000mah packs and also added a bit of weight with three more arms plus associated hardware. It definitely feels heavier when I pick it up having two batteries hung under it and the gain settings aren't that far off from where they were on the Y6, if anything the gains are a bit lower. Different frame setup but the same motors and props so not all that much different really.
Ken
I've had a few days to get the newly configured flat hex setup and work on the gain settings, the result being that the wobble I noticed with the Y6 is also there with the flat hex leading me to the conclusion its the controller not the frame. I also found out the gain settings can go a lot higher than I thought, 500% being the limit on roll and pitch. I've been all the way up to 500% with the current setup and it proved to be too much, now its back down to around 410% which seems to be a pretty good all around compromise. Overall it's a lot better in the wind than it was as a Y6 but still gets batted around quite a bit, from the video it appears to be somewhat worse than the Droidworx AD6 in the same conditions and that annoying little wobble persists as long as the frame is being hit by the wind, you can see what I mean in this video, the last one I did before the roll servo packed it in on the old AV130. You can see by the trees and their shadows how windy it was and the bounce and wobble once the WKM got up near treetop level in the strongest gusts, the worst of it hits around 1:20...
It was suggested to try adjusting the ATTI gains to smooth the wobble, haven't had a chance to do that yet and it doesn't look all that windy outside at the moment so that may have to wait. Also Sidney from DJI suggested I email support if I can't get it worked out and one of the engineers will get back to me to assist, try that with Holger and see what happens!
New Hyperion servos are now on order for the old AV130 so that mount is down until probably this time next week. In the mean time I may try and fit one of the other mounts I have sitting idle just to see how well the WKM works with different camera mounts.
Progress is being made and I still believe its an outstanding controller, its just going to take a while to understand how the gain settings affect the way a frame flys and how to adjust them to get the best performance, the WKM is already way beyond anything I was able to do with the Hoverfly controller and its pretty close to matching what I can do with the MKs, in some areas its better.
Ken
It was suggested to try adjusting the ATTI gains to smooth the wobble, haven't had a chance to do that yet and it doesn't look all that windy outside at the moment so that may have to wait. Also Sidney from DJI suggested I email support if I can't get it worked out and one of the engineers will get back to me to assist, try that with Holger and see what happens!
New Hyperion servos are now on order for the old AV130 so that mount is down until probably this time next week. In the mean time I may try and fit one of the other mounts I have sitting idle just to see how well the WKM works with different camera mounts.
Progress is being made and I still believe its an outstanding controller, its just going to take a while to understand how the gain settings affect the way a frame flys and how to adjust them to get the best performance, the WKM is already way beyond anything I was able to do with the Hoverfly controller and its pretty close to matching what I can do with the MKs, in some areas its better.
Ken
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I'll let you know a little later today, I'm charging a battery for the Droidworx/MK AD6 right now. I know the biggest difference is the Mk doesn't fight the wind as much, rather it tends to "float" on it with the frame staying a lot steadier while moving around a lot more on the horizontal plane and a bit on the vertical as well. I have to say the stabilization and altitude hold of the WKM are far better than anything I've ever been able to get from an MK flight controller of which I currently have 4 V2.1.
The wobble IMO is the tuning of the WKM controller and how the settings scale with size and weight. At some point I want to put it on an airframe that is smaller than the current hex and see if I see the same flight characteristics, could be something to do with how it handles 6 motors vs. 4 since it worked very well as a quad. Don't know for sure, it will take some time to work it all out but in the long run it will get resolved, after all it's only been out in the wild for a couple weeks so far.
Battery is charged, time to go put the AD6 in the air and see what happens...
Ken
Quick update, the former Y6 now hex is pretty much as dialed in as it's going to get with the current state of the firmware and actually it's doing pretty good! Now that I've flown the Nex 5N on it I just can't seem to go back to the GoPros which is probably just as well since the mount works better with the heavier 5N on it. Did a little bit of flying at lunch time in a moderate gusty breeze and it did almost as well as the MKs can do in similar conditons so I'm happy enough with the WKM to swap the old AV130 for the new one, I'll do that tonight and try to get it dialed in tomorrow. I think with the right gimbal settings and the new AV130 the video should be pretty steady even in wind now that I've managed to subdue the majority of the wobble and bobble in the breeze.
I hope the weather holds out for the weekend so I can get video of something other than my front and back yard...
Ken
I hope the weather holds out for the weekend so I can get video of something other than my front and back yard...
Ken
Gunter
Draganflyer X4
Hi Ken,
Thanks for keeping us all up to date with the WKM, mine arrives tomorrow, but I can't get it flying for another couple of weeks, I'm still waiting for a few other bits to arrive.
If you get a chance, are you going to test the failsafe RTH function? I'm dying to know how that works, if it is actually as good as the DJI videos shows...let us know!
Thanks,
Gunter.
Thanks for keeping us all up to date with the WKM, mine arrives tomorrow, but I can't get it flying for another couple of weeks, I'm still waiting for a few other bits to arrive.
If you get a chance, are you going to test the failsafe RTH function? I'm dying to know how that works, if it is actually as good as the DJI videos shows...let us know!
Thanks,
Gunter.