tell me what i want

[7808]

little lost on 1st build

ive recently become fascinated with multirotors/quadcopters, I have bought a few cheap ones like the syma x1 and have a lot of fun with it, and really want to build a "real" one now. I like DIY and like to build things, don't mind wiring and soldering. ive been scouring the internet but there is so much info and so many builds its a little overwhelming, im hoping you guys can help me out a little as far as what parts will be best for me. kind of sucks when you realize later your money could of been better spent

Id like to not spend a small fortune up front but get something that has room to grow a little as far as what I can do with it, like mount camera, maybe a fpv, ive found some low budget builds

like this:

http://oddcopter.com/2012/12/12/easy-diy-quadcopter-build-part-1-the-parts-list/

is that pretty good 1st build? could i do a lot better for a little more say $300-350?

can I add a hold position / barometer to something like that? can this or a 450 frame haul a gopro and or fpv cam later?



would i be better off starting with a frame like this? http://www.wowhobbies.com/dji-fw450basdjiflamewheelf450basickitwithoutmotorsescsandprops.aspx

is there somewhere i can reference what size frame/motor/prop combos are suggested and how they act - in case i want to hand pick my own parts?

what are some common "wish I would have's" people usually run into when they get into the hobby? what is the best part to spend the most on up front?


thanks, i will keep searching and reading

 

[Motopreserve]

It's tough for someone to tell you exactly what you want - but I'll give it a shot, since no one else has weighed in yet. This is based on my very first quad build going on right now...

Frame: I chose a quad to start. Easier to learn, cheaper to build. Can't haul as much payload, but I figure I can move up to hex later if I need more lift. I picked out a frame from hobby king (x650f) partially because I like the esthetics, and partially because it had the stacking center which I assumed could help organize electronics. It's heavy. Try to keep your frame as light as possible because the additional weight will add up quick. Ultimately, frames are cheap in the scheme of things.

Flight Controller: this a big one. The features and cost vary greatly. A bunch of people will suggest to go with something simple (plug & play) - they stretch from hobby king KK2.1 ($35) to Naza (few hundred). I opted for the multiwii format. It's infinitely programmable, and because of the more DIY vibe, is much cheaper than comparably featured products. Mine was $135 with GPS and some other parts/features from a place called Ready to Fly Quads.

Once you know your frame weight - go to eCalc and plug in some info and start figuring out your motors, ESC, props and battery configuration. It's an amazing tool. It will let you know what your all up weight will be, payload capacity, throttle at hover and a ton more.

 

[7808]

thanks for the reply. ive been leaning towards this frame to start with based on reviews, looks, size etc..

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...SK450_Glass_Fiber_Quadcopter_Frame_450mm.html

i tried entering that in frame weight and # of rotors into ecalc but i must be missing somthing, it wont spit out any #s. id like to know what motors to get if i might want to load it up with gadgets in the future, so i dont underpower it now

thought on that frame would be appreciated too

how difficult is the multiwii to program? im computer savvy but not much on the programming level. most similar possibly ive done is reprogram car ecu's for turbos.

what does the multiwii do that the kk2.1 cant do? or is that too big of a question lol maybe what CAN the kk2.1 do would be easier and shorter to answer

 

[FlyGirl]

thanks for the reply. ive been leaning towards this frame to start with based on reviews, looks, size etc..

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...SK450_Glass_Fiber_Quadcopter_Frame_450mm.html

i tried entering that in frame weight and # of rotors into ecalc but i must be missing somthing, it wont spit out any #s. id like to know what motors to get if i might want to load it up with gadgets in the future, so i dont underpower it now

thought on that frame would be appreciated too

how difficult is the multiwii to program? im computer savvy but not much on the programming level. most similar possibly ive done is reprogram car ecu's for turbos.

what does the multiwii do that the kk2.1 cant do? or is that too big of a question lol maybe what CAN the kk2.1 do would be easier and shorter to answer

The MultiWii is much more customizable from what I can see.... KK2 boards are good for sport flying and acrobatics, great even, but aren't expandable like the MultiWii board is. If you want something that will grow with you then you probably would rather go with the MW board

 

[jbrumberg]

Welcome 7808. I started on this quadcopter build journey recently myself. I actually am following the H.A.L. Oddcopter.com "Britt Build" relatively closely. I am starting with a KK2.0 as my first flight control board due to the onscreen display and its "simplicity" with programming. If my needs change so will the fcb. One gets what they pay for with flight controllers. I have seen some amazing quad builds doing amazing things using a variety of frame kits and carrying decent payloads on different websites. Most of those builders post the components they use. They are the best guide as to what components work well together. eCalc is a great tool. Good luck on the journey.

 

[7808]

i threw together a build on HK. maybe you guys can tell me if i picked anything wrong or stupid. still not totally sure how you go about matching motors with speed control current rating, and what the motor ratings mean as far as performance.

	OK	260000002 - Hobbyking SK450 Lower PCB Main Frame	$4.92	48
	OK	9329000018 - Slow Fly Electric Prop 8045SF (4 pc)	$2.25	41
	OK	9329000019 - Slow Fly Electric Prop 8045R SF (4 pc)	$2.25	37
	OK	9171000011 - HobbyKing Multi-Rotor Control Board V3.0..	$15.95	99
	OK	NTM2826-1000 - NTM Prop Drive 28-26 1000KV / 235W	$63.80	272
	OK	9192000124-0 - Afro ESC 30Amp Multi-rotor Motor Speed C..	$55.72	180
	OK	260000001 - Hobbyking SK450 Glass Fiber Quadcopter F.. *This item usually ships within 3 days	$16.95	425
	OK	258000011 - 10CM Male to Male Servo Lead (JR) 26AWG ..	$4.75	28
	OK	Turnigy-HKLP - Turnigy Battery Strap 330mm	$1.59	9
	OK	HK-T6A-M2 - Hobby King 2.4Ghz 6Ch Tx & Rx V2 (Mode 2.. *This item usually ships within 3 days	$25.07	998
	OK	ACC6 - Turnigy Accucel-6 50W 6A Balancer/Charge..	$22.99	437
	OK	BOX-183g - Extra Size Cardboard Box and Packing 183..	$0.00	183
TOTAL: $216.24	2757g

not really sure if i was just supposed to try to pick stuff only from USA warehouse or what.. only thing i THINK im missing is a battery.. still unsure what size /capacity. i was kind of picking stuff based on the oddcopter build and off suggested parts from HK which im not sure how good they are or how well they work together

is the weight of everything calculated based on packaging for shipping reasons? or is that actual weight of the parts so you can figure out the weight of the quadcopter?

if i want the thing to be able to just hover in place for a minute, will the flight control handle that or do i need a hold position? or would i be better of starting with the multiwii?

would these be better then the NTM propdrives http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...d2836_8_1100kv_brushless_outrunner_motor.html ? looks like they make more thrust, but use more power?

thanks for the help!

 

[jbrumberg]

This just jumps out- Do not skimp on the transmitter and receiver. The more channels you have to begin with the better. Your transmitter sets your destiny...

 

[Motopreserve]

You know I've read about it a thousand times, but it's never happened to me... I just typed a REALLY long response to your previous post and somehow it's lost in the ether! Ugh!!

Anyway, you've updated since I was typing, so let's move on

For some strange reason (probably the same thing that ate my post!), your links are not working. But I think we can get the basics of where you're headed. As far as eCalc, the best way to start is to put the weight of the frame and choose. "Without drive" (this means the specific weight for each component will be calculated) in the top pane. For arguments sake, choose a 3xxxmah 3S 30c battery. Choose 30A for the ESC (I think they call it controller). Plug in the props you chose and then see if the motor is listed in the drop-menu. Hot go and see what it spits out. There will be errors listed in red if it finds them.

For the flight controller: if you have programmed an ECU then you need to A) come to my house to do that to my truck! And B) would have no problem with multiwii. It's an open source program - but all the legwork and heavy lifting has been done. It offers some amazing features for much less than the plug and play FCs that offer the same. Adaptations and changes are done with the Arduino program and a specific GUI for the software for quads/hex/tri etc. I'm no programmer but I'm comfortable with computers and have no problem doing a ton of research when I'm obsessed. . Multiwii offered me the ability to have GPS, RTH, headfree and a whole ton of other stuff that was interesting/appealing to me. I knew I didn't want to do stunt flying, and just get a gopro off the ground and have the quad cone back to me. The one I chose comes pre-programmed with mostly everything you need.

the KK2.1 is amazing because it allows you to get flying quick! There's something to say for that - especially to get up in the air and start enjoying. I'm buried in snow right now - so I'm ok tweaking for a bit. It's also so cheap I almost bought one as a backup.

I ordered everything from HK USA (except the multiwii FC) because I was impatient and wanted to get going. I chose things that had in stock specifically and based my choices on that and the research I had done.

J is totally right. Don't skimp on the TX/RX. That's going to be in control of the craft you finally get in the air after all this work!

 

[7808]

thanks for the replies. maybe i will give the multiwii a shot, theres so many differnt looking controllers i guess i will just start with the low cost but very flexible one, as long as it has a GUI and not a bunch of command lines to set up this thing that would be nice. is there multiple kinds of multiwii? i think the one i looked at on HK was miltiwii pro? i think it was $65

the oddcopter build used a 4ch HK reciever, so i just picked the 6ch for a few bucks more. seemed like a good idea, not sure i will need more then that? i plan to just fly around, and later attach cameras for fun.


i guess the part im the most lost about, is what all connectors and extensions i will need having never built one, what motors are best for me, prop size, and battery size.

 

[Motopreserve]

If you are thinking of going MultiWii, I would suggest checking out THIS one. It's cheaper, and by all accounts has superior parts. There are add-ons you can see when you scroll down the page. You really only need a basic one, and then do some more research to see if you'd like any other additional features. He also offers some other things that you will need - and ships from the USA (holiday season rush may delay things). He has been known to take a while, but all my stuff has been shipped within a day or two, so maybe he's got some help now.

THIS is the link to the RCGroups page about that specific board. I warn you, it's 1500+ posts long - you will be able to search specific things if need be. The people there have been pretty helpful, and know this board inside out.

As far as the connectors, you will want to just go ahead and grab some 3.5mm & 4mm bullets, some XT60 connectors, get some nylon stand-ffs of different lengths, some heat shrink, maybe some nylon hardware, and anything else you can think of. You will use it - so don't hesitate to stock up on the cheap stuff...

I think J was talking about the brand of Tx. You might want to look into some of the offbrand companies that get great reviews but sell for far cheaper than Futaba, Hitech or Spectrum. I think there is a company called FrySky or something that seems to make clones. I went off the f%#king deep end with my Tx, so I'm not a good person to ask about this

 

[Motopreserve]

Go to this Thread and scroll down to post #11. This has been the best explanation of eCalc I have found - and definitely helped me hone in on my choices.

Just as an example, after messing with eCalc a bunch, and researching some more, I ended up with the following:

frame: x650f (600 grams)
Battery: 5000mah 3S 35-70C
Controller: Turnigy f30a
Motor: Turnigy 2830/11 1000kv
Prop: APC slow fly 10/4.5"

That gave me decent flight time and lift capability.

 

[jbrumberg]

There is probably a feeding frenzy circling about right now about which programmable Tx is better and why. I made my choice (for the moment) a while ago (a long while ago), before this quad build craziness started. I have a FlySky FS TH9X(B) transmitter. There are variations to this model which (this particular model) has interchangeable Tx modules that support other protocols (which I do not have/need). I have a lot of potential (upgrade) flexibility with this Tx and I will stay with it (for the moment). There are or may be "better" Tx's out there, but I can live with the one I have and it does improve the performance on the "Toys" I already operate. Get a good, reasonable Tx.

 

[7808]

i will repost using direct links instead of copied cart

frame
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...SK450_Glass_Fiber_Quadcopter_Frame_450mm.html

motors
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__21478__NTM_Prop_Drive_28_26_1000KV_235W.html

or ?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=18969

props
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...electric_prop_8045sf_4_pc_usa_warehouse_.html

and i need pack of right hand ones too?

or
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=22427

rx/tx
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__9042__Hobby_King_2_4Ghz_6Ch_Tx_Rx_V2_Mode_2_.html

FC
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/..._328P_Flight_Controller_w_FTDI_DSM2_Port.html

or ?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...ntrol_Board_With_6050MPU_And_Atmel_644PA.html

is this to make neater connections from the motors/esc ?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25488__Hobbyking_SK450_Lower_PCB_Main_Frame.html

these cause they look cool and might help with landing in my junky yard/light snow on ground
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...or_SK450_Quadcopter_Frame_USA_warehouse_.html

still not sure which ESCs, i think any rated above the max current of the motors?

prop size and and style is still a mystery to me, just selecting what was suggested in other builds like this or on HK for now

have not picked out batteries

charger
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...cer_Charger_w_accessories_USA_Warehouse_.html

 

[Motopreserve]

J,

What Tx???????? You had me at flexible...

 

[7808]

Go to this Thread and scroll down to post #11. This has been the best explanation of eCalc I have found - and definitely helped me hone in on my choices.

Just as an example, after messing with eCalc a bunch, and researching some more, I ended up with the following:

frame: x650f (600 grams)
Battery: 5000mah 3S 35-70C
Controller: Turnigy f30a
Motor: Turnigy 2830/11 1000kv
Prop: APC slow fly 10/4.5"

That gave me decent flight time and lift capability.

thanks, i did not enter enough info

 

[Motopreserve]

For now, use those 2nd motors because I know they're in the list on eCalc. Choose APC slow fly props. You'll change the sizes based on what it spits out.

That landing gear looks bad-***. Who cares if it works! I'm sure it does though.

If you go multiwii I'd really suggest the Witespy/ready to fly quads version. Not much more and quality components and also pre-programmed.

I think ink those center pieces can be helpful. I got one of the power distro boards from HK for $3. You can always make your own harness with just wire and connectors, and I sorta think that is actually the nearest solution.

I got the accucell-6 charger. It seems fine. There are fancier/more expensive options but I'm fine with this one. Does everything I need.

See we my previous post about batteries. You're going to want to plug all this into eCalc to check your choices.

 

[jbrumberg]

Scott- For this model of Tx: One "can" install a "Smarty Parts" backlit display board and install firmware upgrades. None of which I have gotten around to at this point. I have not "needed" the improvements at this stage in my development. I am curious now because of discernable, observable programmed performance differences in my aircraft.

7808: I agree about the landing gear. Jam some foamy balls on those "daggers of death" to absorb shock. And color them to aid in orientation too. Actually I may add something like that to my build.

 

[Motopreserve]

PS: you don't need different motors. The directions are changed by the swapping of 2 wires between the ESC and motor once you determine which direction they're all spinning.

Try swapping the Turnigy 2830/11 1000kv with 9" props for the ones you had - it gets you some more time, and payload is enough to get a gopro off the ground.

I used this:

View attachment 15203

 

[7808]

yes I undersrand, I was refering to the props when asking if I need two reverse

I got similar results with ecalc - not so great of flight time, or is that average? performance vs flight time, where would that be? what I'm getting at, is I'm not trying to do anything specific what motor prop combo is a good comprimise for that frame?

 

[Motopreserve]

Sorry, I misunderstood. Yes, you need two clockwise (sometimes referred to as right) and two counter clockwise. Buy a few sets of decent, but cheaper props. They can get damaged in the inevitable crashes for us noobs.

I think those flight numbers are not bad. These things don't fly for a super-long time. If you change the battery data to "2" P - meaning you're running 2 identical batteries in parallel, you'd get approx. 20 minutes of time in the air (not full throttle of course). But that sends your hover throttle up - you want to try to keep it 50%.

I guess you you need to step back and figure out what it is you'd really like to do with this quad. Specifically. If you'd like to eventually do flips and stuff like that, you would choose very differently. If you'd like to eventually lift some aerially video/photo gear, that dictates specific choices too. In my opinion (and I could be VERY wrong), you need a (rough) game plan before you begin research, choices and purchases. Once you determine that, say payload vs flight time length, you can massage the eCalc choices to find your set-up.