Quad Build - Guidance Required

[comickid14]

Hi Everyone,

I have been saving up to build a quad for a while now and i need some advice.

Background:
i would like to use this quad to take aerial video with a gopro + gimbal. in this initial phase i would just be looking a building the quad by itself and flying that for a while before advancing to the go pro.
i have done my research and found the what i believe to be a good setup (detailed below).

Frame: Hobbyking X650F 550mm
Motor:
Model: NTM Prop Drive Series 28-30A 800kv (short shaft version)
Kv: 800rpm/v
Max current: 20A
Max Power: 300W
ESC: Afro ESC 30Amp (simon k)
Props: 10x4.5
Battery: 3s 3000mah 25~50C
Flight controler: MultiWii PRO Ez3.0 or APM 2.5
Anticipated weight: 1.5 - 2kg total (includes future addition of gopro+gimbal)


Questions:

1. Entering these details into eCalc i get a message The available power is not sufficient to hover . this is not what i expected as the manufacturer suggested that with a 10x5 prop i should achieve 1.2 kg thrust = 4.8 kg total > 2 x 2kg load - therefore it should fly? can someone please help me choose the correct battery/motor/propeller combo that will work in this situation?
2. Secondly i would like to achieve a flight time of 10-15 mins, i am not sure if this setup will achieve that? if i can't achieve this with my setup what can i change to do so?
3. I have had difficulty understanding which flight controller to choose for my application. can someone suggest the best FC for my application. don't mind the setup process but would like the best performance.

Thank you for your help and please let me know if i have missed any details that are required.

appreciate any help i can get.

cheers,

ComicKid

 

[PeteDee]

Gasp, do not use NTM motors unless you want to record crash videos.

Afro ESC's are pretty good.

4S, 4S or 4S, choose one, do not go with 3S.

FCU choose whatever floats your boat.

You can get flight time of 10 minutes with 4500mH 4S packs at 1.6-1.8kg.

Cheers

Pete

 

[comickid14]

thanks Pete,

what motor would you suggest?

 

[PeteDee]

Grab the equivalent in a SunnySky or T-Motor, will cost more but you will avoid the failures.

Look for a 2212 at 800kv or even 900kv.

 

[Motopreserve]

Also, that frame is far heavier than it needs to be. I have one - and I spend most of my time battling the weight. See if you can find a frame you like that is lighter - everything will be easier with just that one move. It's also not built that well (shocker!).

Even HK has choices better than this one. I loved the idea of it - hate the reality of it

good luck and be safe. I'm sure you'll have a blast.

 

[comickid14]

OK so i'm going to rethink my motors and frame. Motorpreserve could you recommend a frame that would suit my application? also had a look into the sunny sky motors they are reasonably priced for the 2212 motors but will this work with the frame, the frame suggests using a 28xx size motor which costs well over my budget, if i went with t-motor or sunny sky versions. will the 2212s suit my build?

 

[Motopreserve]

I think there are some other HK x-quad frames which are similar in size but lighter. Maybe a DJI flamewheel?? I think there may be aftermarket landing hear that you could add later for your gimbal.

As far as a cheap 28xx motor - the only one I have experience with is the D2830-11. It's 1000kv and under $10. Buy an extra or two in case of crashes or bad QC. Same goes for the ESCs.

 

[comickid14]

I think there are some other HK x-quad frames which are similar in size but lighter. Maybe a DJI flamewheel?? I think there may be aftermarket landing hear that you could add later for your gimbal.

As far as a cheap 28xx motor - the only one I have experience with is the D2830-11. It's 1000kv and under $10. Buy an extra or two in case of crashes or bad QC. Same goes for the ESCs.

having looked at the other frames, it looks like they are all about the similar weight once you add the landing gear, not sure what frame to pick in this case, however i have looked into motors and decided on the Sunnysky X2212-980Kv motors or the iPower MT2212 930kv. I have also looked at this frame with the full conversion http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...onversion_Kit_for_SK450_Quadcopter_Frame.html , but it is still the same weight once you add landing gear. your thoughts?

 

[Motopreserve]

THIS is an example. Not sure it gets the best reviews - but it shows that there are frames out there. This ones 200+ grams lighter. That's a lot when it comes down to the AUW.

A DJI flamewheel is under 300 grams - and there is no way that the landing gear weighs that same amount (I've weighed mine - can't recall exactly, but it wasn't 300 grams). I think you'd still be less than the x650f.

Your call though. You'll just need to take into account that weight.

 

[comickid14]

That is exactly what i thought, but have a look at THIS (230 grams). so i think i will go for that flamewheel style frame to try and reduce weight. had a look at the one you posted do you think it will have clearance for a gimbal?

 

[Motopreserve]

Obviously it would depend on your gimbal. I just measured the x65f clearance - about 180mm. So the one I linked is much less. I was only offering an example of a frame with LG that was lighter.

Even that LG you linked at 230 grams coupled with a frame that is under 300 grams would save you about 100 grams. That's a lot of weight when you start adding everything up.

I chose the x650f before I knew how much this quad AUW would escalate. I calculated - but must have missed something because mine sits at 1700+ (1300 grams when I plugged in all the components to eCalc) without a camera, let alone a gimbal/camera rig. I also thought that the center stacks seemed sensible for organizing all the electronics, and that turned out not to be the case due to odd drilled slots etc. The motor mounts that are supposed to allow mounting of the EACs are also milled wrong, so that benefit is not usable unless you modify both the mounts and the arms.

Ultimately, I'm fine with the frame. I just wish I had chosen something else. Like I said, it's your call. Just consider my post an elongated review

 

[comickid14]

cheers mate, appreciate your advice. i have to say i wont be going with the x650f after taking all the points into consideration. but i do want to find an alternative that will work.

 

[Krissykristian]

I would start with a kk2.0 or a multiwii 1.5 they are both very good controllers and usually fly pretty stable out of the box (in my past trial and errors) and the best part they are both really cheap on price so you don't have to spend so much for a first build and if money isn't an option I would go with a dji naza flight controller they are reasonably priced and come with all the bells and whistles anyways happy flying!!!

 

[Motopreserve]

cheers mate, appreciate your advice. i have to say i wont be going with the x650f after taking all the points into consideration. but i do want to find an alternative that will work.

Im sure you'll find something good. There are a ton of choices. Just think light and you should end up ahead of the game.

 

[comickid14]

Hi guys,

I have gone away and updated my build based on the feedback that i have got here. please let me know if there is anything i have missed. keeping in mind that my final camera setup add weight to waht i have got here so i would need this setup to lift an additional 400 odd grams.

Frame: Hobbyking SK450 Glass Fiber Quadcopter Frame 450mm

Motors:
SunnySky 2212 980KV

Battery:
4s 3000mah


Props:
GF 8x4.5 High Rigidity Nylon Mix Carbon Propeller

Landing Gear:
High Crab FPV Landing Gear

ESC:
Afro ESC 30Amp

Flight controller:

cant afford APM so maybe the Multiwii pro 3 or DJI naza lite

 

[Motopreserve]

Sounds like you have a decent plan going. If you are thinking Multiwii - definitely check out the Ready To Fly Quads version. You might wait a bit longer - but the pre-programming will eliminate some headaches. He has some other useful stuff as well.

Im not positive, but the Afro is OPTO? If so, you'll need a UBEC.

Did you plug this all into eCalc? I though the smaller props wanted a higher KV motor???

 

[comickid14]

sorry i plan on using a 4S 3000mah with these and the recommendation for 4s lipo was the 8X4.5 props.

 

[Motopreserve]

That's great. I was just checking.

 

[comickid14]

hey motorpreserve,

thanks for all your advice i have purchased all the parts, including the Multiwii pro 3 from RTF quads. hope it goes well, i am utterly confused by the flight controller set up so i might be asking for help again when i get all my gear.

cheers

 

[Motopreserve]

Congrats! You're about to begin a wicked obsession. . Don't worry too much about the FC, and feel free to ask questions when you need to. The thread over on RCGroups specifically for this board is outstanding. The folks over there know it inside and out, and there is a couple post at the beginning of the thread that link to almost every major setting/question.

The most important thing with multiwii (IMHO) is to be methodical. Keep notes and make one change at a time. Hopefully Paul will deliver it quickly.