Naza GPS and Futaba 8FG and R6208SB RX not playing nicely together.

[SMP]

Swapping the 550 over from Spektrum DX7 to Futaba 8FG/6208SB. Sbus made it easy. Everything configured (Dbus) and looking good in Assistant, time to try er out! and... Bloody GPS refuses to get a lock. 3 Reds foreverrrrrrrrr

Ok fine. Maybe it doesn't like the new RX, time to relocate GPS. Previously it was mounted on a medium mast off the top plate above the Spektrum RX on the bottom plate. So..Backwards Forwards Sideways, Up, Down... the net is it needed at least 8-10 INCHES away from the RX before it would play ball. I'm out w no tools and no tie wraps... so I peel the dbl sided and stick him to the front of the batwing above the gopro. Rebalance w battery and ready to fly.

Fair amount of wind 10-12mph but no more than usual, So I give it a pop, atti on and sticks are mushy!! Barely keeping control. Throw to GPS and damn thing goes really nose forward and starts motoring away!! Drat!! Back to Atti and now I'm starting to notice how screwed I really am. It's wobbling everywhere, wind is really pushing me around, try GPS again and it rockets 20 feet up and looks like its going flyway on me... yup, this is gonna be bad, REALLY BAD, only question is how much...flip back to atti and altitude is about all I've got control of,... manage to dump some air, recover, dump some more and get close enough for a very rough sideways landing (crash) at the cost of one leg. Whew.....

So now I'm stumped. As it was the first time trying the Spektrum to Futabab Swap AND moving the GPS due to interference issues AND no update of GPS in Assistant... I managed to change just about everything.

Regarding the RX:
Are the Futaba RX significantly noisier than Spektrum???
The spektrum uses a tiny stub antenna, the futaba the 4 inch or so whips..I used heat shrink and the ant leads are stiff but not mounted rock solid. Could these moving about be a contributor?
Gains could be a suspect for the mushy sticks. They are the same as previously in the Assistant. Dunno unless the sticks are somehow related to...

Naza Atti and GPS Performance or lack thereof... My understanding is that the two aren't related and yet... Atti control was a mess due to sticks going full lock with very little pitch/roll effect. I'm guessing the GPS never had lock even though LEDs said differently or lost lock due to interference. Was too busy panicking to be able to tell during flight. GPS mounting position had moved significantly and not been updated in Assistant but while I've updated religiously in the past, I keep seeing vids/posts from guys leaving the mounting info all zeros... is it that important or did I just find out

Anyone using Futaba 8fg w R6208SB RX experience similar???


(although I was able to previously get a compass calibration without sat lock I hadn't done a compass calibration prior to this liftoff)

 

[ChrisViperM]

I am a Futaba man for many many years now, but never had any issues with the Rx interfering with any GPS....regardless where it was mounted. Just make sure these two antenna whips are mounted in a 90° angle as per manual.
The only thing to watch out is to start with a new model in the Transmitter (plain Airplane mode) and not to have any mixers, Expo's or Dual Rates activated.

Best bet would be to make a clean reflash in the NAZA, set a new model on the transmitter, and make sure when you make the compass calibrations (WooKong dance) to stay away from Buildings, mobile phones, power lines, etc.....

Chris

 

[SMP]

Thx Chris, that's good to know! Both of the other birds are on the 8FG and would love to get the 550 over as well. Whips are at 90 but pointing down between the naza vu and battery... (running out of real estate) When you say "reflash" do you mean update or reload firmware??

Don't think I have any expo working but thats a great thought, followed JonDesjardins setup vid (thanks Jon!) but will go through and dbl check everything

 

[quad flyer]

I use the Futaba 8J with my naza and its always been very reliable. I connect them using the normal channel to channel wiring, I haven't tried S-Bus.
one suggestion would be to try connecting them using the traditional channel to channel wiring to see if that improves things.
If your GPS isn't getting enough sats to get a good position hold might explain the shooting forward as soon as you flip the switch from atti to gps mode. Having the correct GPS antenna position in the naza is also important, otherwise you might get the ever-increasing circles effect.
Changing rx shouldn't cause such a dramatic change in flight stability, the rx only provides control movements to the naza, providing all the sticks move as expected in software assistant, the naza should still be as stable as before.
Were you flying in a bright sunny area, this sounds very similar to the "bouncy quad" issue that seems to be caused by direct sunlight shining onto the left-side of the naza and disrupting the barometer, causing very dramatic & unstable altitude control.
I hope this is helpful and you get flying again soon.

 

[SMP]

Thx Quad, not a bad idea going back to the traditional to test... was wired traditional w the Spektrum w no issues... Do have both sides of the Naza taped. Just the left then yes?

Basically I'm hearing that the two do play nice together so in all likelihood I've managed to bungle the swap somehow. I suppose the biggest surprise was that post RX swap the GPS wouldn't lock in previously mounted position. I put that down to RX interference but doesn't sound like the leading suspect now...hmm

 

[quad flyer]

I'm glad I could help.

I have both sides of my naza covered with black packing foam, but yes, it is only the left side that gets effected from what I've seen on various youtube vids and read on different forums.

the GPS & RC rx shouldn't cause cross interference, they are both passive receivers and work in completely different frequency bands.
I have a naza with GPS with Futaba R2008 rx crammed together on a little DJI F330 frame and its fine.

View attachment 9889

I know how "oh, I'll just swap that over" can cause all sorts of grief, I've done that way too many times, often without back-checking everything and it all ends in tears.

Maybe try re-check all the wiring, go through it as if its a "new build", pulling wires about can very easily disrupt other things.

I hope you manage to get it resolved.

 

[ChrisViperM]

Thx Chris, that's good to know! Both of the other birds are on the 8FG and would love to get the 550 over as well. Whips are at 90 but pointing down between the naza vu and battery... (running out of real estate) When you say "reflash" do you mean update or reload firmware??

Don't think I have any expo working but thats a great thought, followed JonDesjardins setup vid (thanks Jon!) but will go through and dbl check everything

If you connect port F1 and F2 with a pach servo cable and apply power for a few seconds, than you do a factory reset. All previous settings will be wiped out. After that remove the patch cable and flash the firmware. Can be the same as you are currently using or any other firmware (don't forget to do that with the matching Assistent Software). With that procedure you are just making sure that you have a clean firmware.

Also make sure your 6208SB is set to "Normal Mode" and not "High Speed" mode as per manual: http://manuals.hobbico.com/fut/r6208sb-manual.pdf ....this is also sometimes a source of trouble.

Chris

 

[kloner]

i've built two discos with that radio and never seen the rx cause problems. But you mentioned des, he had a faulty rx with his radio that caused a bunch of grief, i'd start looking at it from that angle. maybe contact futaba and see what they say. only thing i've seen make 3 reds never go away is 1280 video equipment. Now if you have that and swapped rx then you got a legitimate problem. 1280 sucks with gps

 

[quad flyer]

Hi SMP, I've just re-read your 1st post and you mentioned about 3 reds flashing all the time.
I have seen that on the DJI Phantom, which also uses the naza with gps. It was during a recent night flying gathering and one guy brought his Phantom along but every time he powered it up after the boot up sequence had completed the LED would flash 3 red, we lifted the quad off the ground to take a closer look and the 3 reds stopped flashing, put it back on the deck and they started flashing again. Eventually he moved further down the path and it was ok.
As the flying field has a path running across it, it makes for nice solid & dry take-off and landing area, there are street lamps along the path and we think it may be the power lines under path causing interference. the GPS / compass module is on the landing leg of the phantom which puts it very low to ground.
I don't know if this helps any, does your flying area have power lines nearby.
If its your normal flying area and you have only seen this effect after changing over the rx it kinda rules out the above mentioned theory.

 

[gtranquilla]

I have two F550's one with NAZA other with WKM. Both operate using same Futaba 8FG Super.
One uses the R6208SB.... other uses the Frsky 8???SB.
Both work perfectly virtuall all the time.
I followed Jon DesJardins's Youtube video on Futaba switch config's with Naza made it all so simple.
Many flashing red LEDs initially but gave it time to acquire all GPS satellites needed....
After 30 seconds rapid flashing green led indicates IOC mode functioning correctly.
Then off into the wild blue yonder........hundreds of successful flights so far.
Also installed a GoPro3 as well as GCS LK900 all remained 100% successful....
So I am at a loss as to how to help you out.....
maybe strip it all down to it's simplest config w/o GoPro then build it back up until problems resurface.

Swapping the 550 over from Spektrum DX7 to Futaba 8FG/6208SB. Sbus made it easy. Everything configured (Dbus) and looking good in Assistant, time to try er out! and... Bloody GPS refuses to get a lock. 3 Reds foreverrrrrrrrr

Ok fine. Maybe it doesn't like the new RX, time to relocate GPS. Previously it was mounted on a medium mast off the top plate above the Spektrum RX on the bottom plate. So..Backwards Forwards Sideways, Up, Down... the net is it needed at least 8-10 INCHES away from the RX before it would play ball. I'm out w no tools and no tie wraps... so I peel the dbl sided and stick him to the front of the batwing above the gopro. Rebalance w battery and ready to fly.

Fair amount of wind 10-12mph but no more than usual, So I give it a pop, atti on and sticks are mushy!! Barely keeping control. Throw to GPS and damn thing goes really nose forward and starts motoring away!! Drat!! Back to Atti and now I'm starting to notice how screwed I really am. It's wobbling everywhere, wind is really pushing me around, try GPS again and it rockets 20 feet up and looks like its going flyway on me... yup, this is gonna be bad, REALLY BAD, only question is how much...flip back to atti and altitude is about all I've got control of,... manage to dump some air, recover, dump some more and get close enough for a very rough sideways landing (crash) at the cost of one leg. Whew.....

So now I'm stumped. As it was the first time trying the Spektrum to Futabab Swap AND moving the GPS due to interference issues AND no update of GPS in Assistant... I managed to change just about everything.

Regarding the RX:
Are the Futaba RX significantly noisier than Spektrum???
The spektrum uses a tiny stub antenna, the futaba the 4 inch or so whips..I used heat shrink and the ant leads are stiff but not mounted rock solid. Could these moving about be a contributor?
Gains could be a suspect for the mushy sticks. They are the same as previously in the Assistant. Dunno unless the sticks are somehow related to...

Naza Atti and GPS Performance or lack thereof... My understanding is that the two aren't related and yet... Atti control was a mess due to sticks going full lock with very little pitch/roll effect. I'm guessing the GPS never had lock even though LEDs said differently or lost lock due to interference. Was too busy panicking to be able to tell during flight. GPS mounting position had moved significantly and not been updated in Assistant but while I've updated religiously in the past, I keep seeing vids/posts from guys leaving the mounting info all zeros... is it that important or did I just find out

Anyone using Futaba 8fg w R6208SB RX experience similar???


(although I was able to previously get a compass calibration without sat lock I hadn't done a compass calibration prior to this liftoff)

 

[SMP]

Chuckling here... Ok Quad you win!! 550 is like TEXAS compared to the 330 (Will stop crying bout real estate) Yup, light poles everywhere but same place as usual. BTW thats how it felt!! Move the GPS 10 inches out, almost instant lock. Bring it back in toward the bird, 3 reds... in, out, in out it was crazy! hmmm This is starting to feel like two separate and simultaneous issues....

Aha!!! THATS what that little Wire Shorter Loop Thingy is for!! Chris, you're genius thx mate. Will dbl check Normal vs High Speed. As I recall its Red Led vs Green Led... hmmm manual link.. ****.. that might be it!! (PS Congrats on your new bird! Nice!!!!!!!)

Speaking of the 1280 Kloner... after that 1280 Flyaway thread, I ended up buying notch filters in bulk. So here's a funny question... you know how that notch has two little stubs pointing out to dump harmonics? I wonder if how they are oriented makes a difference??? Think they create little pools of noise???? Hmmm

 

[quad flyer]

Hi SMP, I enjoyed your comment about real estate, it did make me smile.
Was there any change in the "3 reds" if you lift the whole rig off the ground, I'm still thinking about the underground power cable theory.
Can you repeat the "3 red" effect when you are back home, i.e., 3 reds with the gps near the bird, no reds with the gps 10 inches away. That will help eliminate whether location is effecting it.
What happens if you raise the gps 10 inches above the bird?

 

[SMP]

Progress!!!

GPS issue appears to have been related to a pool of interference shaped like a ufo saucer dinner plate ending 8 inches out and 3 inches above. Basically needed to be above the notch filter and all the 1280 components. Wasn't the RX at all. Did NOT like being below however so Quad your Phantom theory could still be well valid!

Chris... Looks like it was the Hi Speed on the RX. I skimmed the manual focusing on how to change the mode and didn't focus enough on how to check what bloody mode you're in BEFORE changing it. So of course I immediately changed modes making sure I ended up being on Normal. Unfortunately that leaves me 95% sure that was the problem but like most things gravity....not 100% Regardless THANK YOU!!!

So, after making sure RX was in normal, dbl checking connections, changing leg, doing the "Wookong dance", making ABSOLUTE SURE I've A. Not taken off before NAZA is ready. B. Not moved Naza while it gets ready, C. Realizing that "sheesh this takes a lot longer than I usually wait"... D. gets ALL the Sats, and E. Record my own homepoint, I roll up the throttle prepared for certain death....

And it flies. And it atti's and it Gps's... which I just made into verbs...

So I go bang about tentatively testing pitch roll yaw etc.. and it still feels a wee bit mushy, NOTHING like before, this just feels... slow. So I bring it back. Check dual rates, expo...nope nothing. Re-power, re-wait for all of the above sequence, send it back up. Snappy sticks. What the.

Change Batts. Back up. Mushy. 1/4 second lag. Dial in some gains on the fly. Little better but still not snappy.. Basically feels like a non linear expo...

Phantom expo??????

So now I'm really confused. I think partially the Futaba has longer throw but that second flight seemed like normal.

 

[kloner]

you ran calibrate in assistant, right?

the 8fg does some weird stuff to the pulse,,,,,, never heard of it affecting a dji controller like this

Maybe look in assistant and see if the green bars are overshooting the screen. unplug, plug and see if it's movement changes.

 

[quad flyer]

Its good to hear you're back in the air, well done

 

[SMP]

Yup, calibrated in assistant prior to flight and even checked on the futaba screen. When I snap roll all the way right or left, there's a clear visual delay but the command isn't ignored or notchy... all of this is about 200 feet away and in any orientation (nose in/nose out/sideways) as well. Will try the multiple calibrate today.. maybe rebind? Ever hear of a "slow" RX???



Aye, Quad no doubt, flying problems are good problems to have! Thx for all the help guys!!!

 

[ChrisViperM]

Good to hear that it's heading the right way. If your bird is behaving "normal" but you have some sort of soft or sluggish response to your sticks, try to increase the gain settings.....but only in small steps. This should make your bird more responsive.

Chris

 

[SMP]

Ok... Thinking I'll just need to keep climbing gains until the sticks "feel" the same as the Spektrum. (Last little inflight gain change from 95% to 117% and still not snappy) I'm finding the Futaba seems to have a TON more throw. So between that and my inexperience I'm not sure how much I can trust what is me and what is mechanical. Then I run into this... http://youtu.be/n5D720wwUFc

Edge of range and TX/RX Communication clipping???

(hehehehe so that's youtubes idea of how to color a raw protune)

 

[dr427]

I have two F550's one with NAZA other with WKM. Both operate using same Futaba 8FG Super.
One uses the R6208SB.... other uses the Frsky 8???SB.
Both work perfectly virtuall all the time.
I followed Jon DesJardins's Youtube video on Futaba switch config's with Naza made it all so simple.
Many flashing red LEDs initially but gave it time to acquire all GPS satellites needed....
After 30 seconds rapid flashing green led indicates IOC mode functioning correctly.
Then off into the wild blue yonder........hundreds of successful flights so far.
Also installed a GoPro3 as well as GCS LK900 all remained 100% successful....
So I am at a loss as to how to help you out.....
maybe strip it all down to it's simplest config w/o GoPro then build it back up until problems resurface.

thanks for the tips! F500, naza / GPS, & 8fg arriving next week. I will check that vid you referenced out!