Motor Maintenance


kloner

Aerial DP
that's the one i use, but i also have there little pen, has a syringe type tip... it does collect dust, but i use air to blow it all off, i also hit my motor area with alcohol in a spray gun.... we have it here for installing vinyl to cars or i'd just keep it in the can......

scorpion sells one, boca bearings claims they got the magic sauce...
 


kloner

Aerial DP
i have been for years and haven't ever had any problems. i came from single rotor and scorpion motor after scorpion motor and just did what he said. mostly 4030 and 4035 scorpion heli motors...... i did it to a KDE neu motor and the insulation was cardboard...... next thing i knew i had a $400 heli motor throwing cardboard, everywhere. i can tell you these suppo motors love oil. They run warm with no extra oil, cool with oil once a trip. i blow em off with air and am on somewhere around 800 flights since i've had my multirotors according to the gopro movie number. I flew in 100-110 degrees regularly this year

with the dji motors, i was oiling them alot,,, tried flying 2kg with too small of motors, it totally kept them cool. I'm sure alot of this is in direct relation to extemly cheap bearings and most likely, no grease to begin with.

not arguing, just sayin what i've seen. we run motors that cost $20 a piece
 

DesJardins

Member
I haven't oiled my motors but then again I have 4 bran new DJI's on with 2 flights.

Once I get new motors those will see oil especially flying for 10+ minutes at a time with the AZ heat
 

2tall

Fly Often - Fly Safe
At the IRCHA Jamboree two years ago I attended a session put on by Scorpion (motors and ESCs). Everyone attending won something - I won a Scorpion motor lube kit that consisted of their branded oil in a pen/needle applicator. During the session Scorpion reps demonstrated the proper way to lube their top and bottom sealed motor bearings. As far as I know all of their motor bearings are sealed. I use that same lube on my DJI motor bearings, about once every two hours run time.

Here is a link to Scorpion's bearing lube instructions: http://www.scorpionsystem.com/building_technic/oil_bearing/
 
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jes1111

Active Member
Oh dear! I am exasperated, I must say. There's no point in my writing the same stuff, over and over again, every time this subject comes up. So, if you're at all interested in "bearings" and want to make sure that you are doing the right thing to ensure longevity and safety, then I invite you read both of the threads (completely) that I've linked above in post #3.

Potted version:
- bearings use either grease or oil - never both
- shielded motor bearings are greased at the factory, so you shouldn't use oil on them
- shielded bearings are not designed to be oiled from the outside - very little, if any, oil is able to get inside
- small shielded bearings often have "fixed" shields, i.e. they can't be removed (without destroying them)
- therefore... small shielded bearings that were factory-greased and don't have removable shields cannot be "maintained" other than cleaning dirt off the outside.
- if you want to (minimally) extend the life of such a bearing that's already done "a lot of work", go ahead and drip some oil on the outside if that makes you feel better ;) - personally I wouldn't fly with such a bearing 'cos it is already in the process of dying.
- if you want to shorten the life of a factory-greased non-removable shield bearing, then start "oiling it" from Day One - it shouldn't take more than a couple of goes to wash all the grease out of it then you'll need to oil the damn thing every flight (and you'll be convinced even more that oiling is "the right way")
- if you remove a bearing from a motor and use any impact or other force whatsoever to do so then that bearing is junk. Replace it with a new one.
- new chrome steel bearings are about $2 each or less (when not bought from a premium niche seller like Boca) - replace all your bearings on a very regular schedule - it's a "consumables" cost for safe, trouble-free flying.

I mean... really! How many times can I say this? This is not my "opinion" - this is standard engineering knowledge. So why is Lucien at Innov8tive saying you should oil them, then? Well, Scorpion is selling an oil kit for helicopter motors that run at 45,000rpm in the middle of a roasting-hot motor and therefore must be oiled every few hours so they don't destroy themselves (but I'd use rubber-shielded bearings in that case). Lucien is an electrical engineer and actually knows squat about bearings. He, like others, thinks that just because Scorpion sells oil, all bearings should be oiled. Sorry, but he's wrong.

Two notes:
- if you do use oil on a bearing and it is not rated for a high-speed, high temperature, harsh environment then it will break down very quickly - possibly within the space of a single flight.
- if you have a motor that you have already "oiled" then you must continue to oil it for the rest of its life because you've already washed all the grease out of it.

And one parting thought -
How often do you oil the bearings on your car?

:)
 
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kloner

Aerial DP
they grease em everytime i get the oil changed,,,,, my boats wheel bearing on the trailer are oil filled, you can see the oil float around the clear cover, you use that or bearing buddies which are greased, but the same thing, a sealed ressivor of grease

I hear ya, but coming from rc like alot of us and having bought scorpion motors for years since it was the only real option, we do it and have no ill affects. the motors stiull spin and when i touch it after flying, it's not hot

the shields you talk about are metal, ever seen metal hold liquid when it also spins and isn't sealed? When you buy bearings at a place like boca, they start at say $6, then you want sealed shields, oh that's the $32 version. These motors at the end user level are $20,,, that means my dealer paid $10, that means there aint a whole lot of extras inside, shipping is probably half the $10 from china to here

Before i had it with dji motors, i took a set of dikes to a bearing to see what was in there,,,,, the balls fell out and danced around on a glass table like there was no grease in it.... i have never even started the motor, when i put it on from a new bag and paid $50 for it, it was rougher than the one i had been using just spinning the prop holding the motor

dunno, this might be where what you think comes in them aint in em to save $.08
 
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kloner

Aerial DP
in theory if everything was what we thought it was, as in greased with a high end material, i think he'd be spot on.

the lucien he speaks of then us saying scorpion taught us is one in the same and i think irritating the piss out of him. Lucien is the president of my ama flying club, lives a half hour from here.... i get it, i just don't buy into not needing it though it probably would keep on keepin on without.... If you call lucien today, he'll tell you they recomend it caue scorpion washes out the grease before there installed to make them free er and spin with less drag, therefore need oil every few flights. i'm on the side of the fence thinking they didn't put grease in em, so it needs something like oil

if there is grease in a dji motor bearing new, i'd kiss a monkeys butt cause there sure aint much and it didn't seem very viscous
 

jes1111

Active Member
:) Partly because I've had a long day, and partly because I've preached on this subject so many times but new threads like this one still appear on a regular basis. :)
 

DesJardins

Member
:) Partly because I've had a long day, and partly because I've preached on this subject so many times but new threads like this one still appear on a regular basis. :)

Well it's good info to keep and simply just post up for people to read, interpret and decide on what they want to do with oiling.

Thanks :)
 

Jodde73

Member
It's funny everybody fell for the "expensive multi motor brand" trend and now bearings already start to crumble...
I use the Scorpion oil on my cheap NTM, Turnigy, Hacker style & KDa's. And it works.
It makes my motors run cool and the bearings seems to last for a long time.
I do it because when I open a used (bad) bearing from a rc motor, they are always dry.
Dry + dust is bad, grease is impossible to get passed the shield, oil is better than dry...
Just my opinion and experience.
@jes1111 The bearings that are inside the engine of my car gets oiled all the time when it's running.
The ones outside the motor (often low revs except for the gennie) are sealed or protected by a radial seal (not only shielded like the small ones we are talking about)
 

jes1111

Active Member
in theory if everything was what we thought it was, as in greased with a high end material, i think he'd be spot on.

the lucien he speaks of then us saying scorpion taught us is one in the same and i think irritating the piss out of him. Lucien is the president of my ama flying club, lives a half hour from here.... i get it, i just don't buy into not needing it though it probably would keep on keepin on without.... If you call lucien today, he'll tell you they recomend it caue scorpion washes out the grease before there installed to make them free er and spin with less drag, therefore need oil every few flights. i'm on the side of the fence thinking they didn't put grease in em, so it needs something like oil

if there is grease in a dji motor bearing new, i'd kiss a monkeys butt cause there sure aint much and it didn't seem very viscous

LOL - yep, the engineer in me does assume that all bearings are well made and properly greased (with the right grease) at the factory. You're probably right about DJI, Suppo, etc. - but in that case the smart move is to swap out the bearings for known-good, branded items before you even install the motor on a quad.

The more I think about it, the more sense it seems to make to use "contact shielded" bearings for MR motors. The usual case against them is that the rubber shield causes additional friction - which is why skaters and fishermen, for example, don't like them. But low-speed rolling resistance really isn't a problem for us - in fact, the slight drag may be an advantage when the FC reduces throttle and you want the motor to slow down as rapidly as possible. The great advantage is that you can (carefully) remove the shield, apply a little extra grease then refit the shield. Like I said, don't buy your bearings at Boca - these are all industry standard sizes - go to any bricks-and-mortar or online engineering supply house and get branded bearings (like EZO) - even contact shielded bearings should be around $2 or less when you buy in bulk.
 

kloner

Aerial DP
i hear ya,,,,, when i got going here, my old style dji motors all got replaced with grade 7 and after that, i never had a hot motor. they were some crazy $8 bearings or whatever. But, the next guy that came along with a modern kit,,, the frigin motors shafts were loctited to the bearing race so you couldn't even open them up to replace them....

The one good thing about the suppo is they have great bearings, from what i hear oiled or not, but man, i'm just so used to it and the products are all stored and sitting there to do so
 

jes1111

Active Member
Here's Boca's own advice on "RC BRUSHLESS MOTOR BEARING MAINTENANCE" - if you can find where it says "drip some oil on the outside of the shield" then I'll kiss that monkey's butt for you! ;)
 

kloner

Aerial DP
I know, but your looking at boca, the only high end marketed bearing place in the us that i'm aware of that gets top dollar, hence they make parts for high end stuff.

When your over here at boot camp naza, were just throwing crap at the ground seeing if this ir that works....... not even flying alot of the time..... From a manufacturers standpoint, theres no extras thrown in to make it last longer.. i got to the point i'm a crash and replace guy anymore. prop breaks, i'll replace the motor and usually steal the bullets back, take off the prop adapter and usually reuse if it's not bent too bad, but the shaft, bearings, etc are more expensive than a new one

every scorpion motor i ever had was opposite, crash and fix cause it was $300 or whatever. $20 isn't even worth having to wash your hands after your done. crash and replace, crash and replace.
 

DennyR

Active Member
I would think that if you wanted to re-lubricate a bearing then one option would be to boil the bearing in grease until the air escapes from the casing. That will induce the grease into the bearing again as it cools down.
 

kloner

Aerial DP
theres a little clip yo can peel out and the shield comes off, but you need like watch repair equipment.. even in a big bearing like single rotors have are a pain to get apart. The bb's in these 22mm motor bearing are like grains of sand,, smaller actualy
 

jes1111

Active Member
I would think that if you wanted to re-lubricate a bearing then one option would be to boil the bearing in grease until the air escapes from the casing. That will induce the grease into the bearing again as it cools down.

Yep - that'd work, except that it is really tricky to remove these bearings without damaging them. Heating in an oven is the only way, really, that doesn't run the absolute risk of damaging the bearing. If I hadn't rushed ahead myself and bought 160 shielded bearings in one order (of which I still have about 100 left), I would be trying contact shielded bearings myself. I will report back when I do.

Incidentally, here's a good page on the Boca site "all about bearings" :)...
http://www.bocabearings.com/dropin.aspx?f=bearing-engineering-guide.txt

Here's the bit about the different shield types:
View attachment 6574
 

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