Group Build 2014, DJI NAZA/F450 Quadcopter!

[jakesteam1953]

Great Video, and bless you ( for the sneeze at the end ) lol... anyhow you have me all excited to get going and trying to catch up with everyone. Things are already starting to make sense, a little ! can I ask a question maybe ahead of where I am? I want to order a good radio that I can use in the future for other things I build or buy. My question is, say I build the one you are taking us through and I also buy or build something different. When it comes to programing, am I going to be programing the Radio and if so how do I use is from one aircraft to the next? hope that made sense?

 

[jakesteam1953]

I know I am asking a lot of questions, but I want to do the correct things. Is there a list of what to buy, and where the best price may be? I just noticed a DJI NAZA-M LITE & GPS COMBO SET for around $200 is this what I should get?

 

[williammiller]

Super! Very informative and well presented. Thanks in advance for the amount time you are dedicating to this. Honestly, without this type of hands-on instruction I wouldn't try to build a copter... would have ended up buying a rtf and not have the knowledge I am sure will come with the build process (great for repairs like you pointed out in the vid).

Again, thanks! B.

 

[djw43]

Awesome Bart!

 

[RCJardin]

Thanks for this. I will be following and building my F450. I think the success that will come from this project will be in your attention to detail, don't take anything for granted in our sketchy knowledge of the subject.

 

[djw43]

Sorry if this is a bad question, call it a newbie attempt.
i would like to know how our build will compare to the phantom vision. Will ours be less money after adding a radio, FPV and camera? Will ours be more capable or less. I understand we can use the radio on another build, but it is also possible that it could be a one and done aircraft. So I think to compare apples to apples, I would add the cost of the radio to our build cost.
Again I apologize if this has been over discussed. The vision seems like the complete package for a reasonable price.
thanks for any opinions

 

[Bartman]

Good morning, here are a few answers to your questions

Are you going to give places to order the parts or are we on our own with that?

people building along might find places with good prices and i encourage you to post those links here. our advertisers might have good deals available so it's worth the time to check in with them first.

I want to order a good radio that I can use in the future for other things I build or buy. My question is, say I build the one you are taking us through and I also buy or build something different. When it comes to programing, am I going to be programing the Radio and if so how do I use is from one aircraft to the next?

the radio you buy is dependent on what you want to do in the future. for someone who's not sure i'd say buy something affordable or try to use what you have. if you follow along with this build and successfully get your radio programmed, the stuff you learn will definitely help you to program your radio for the next build. if nothing else, you'll know more and be able to ask better questions when you're stuck on something. the radios store different models so when you want to add a new heli to the radio you just call it heli 2 and program it however you'd like. the radio will keep all the settings separate for you and will store all the settings under the model name.

I just noticed a DJI NAZA-M LITE & GPS COMBO SET for around $200 is this what I should get?

i've seen posts where people commented that the NAZA Lite doesn't fly very well. i'm not an expert on this stuff but i'd guess that a good used NAZA Ver1 would be better than a brand new NAZA Lite. THe NAZA Ver2 is the latest but someone else can comment on how they all compare to each other. i don't always buy new, sometimes it bites me in the arse, most of the time i'm fine with it.

i would like to know how our build will compare to the phantom vision. Will ours be less money after adding a radio, FPV and camera? Will ours be more capable or less. I understand we can use the radio on another build, but it is also possible that it could be a one and done aircraft. So I think to compare apples to apples, I would add the cost of the radio to our build cost.

the phantom vision is a ready to fly helicopter, so it is only useful to you if you can successfully get it to fly once you unbox it. if it wrecks and you can't fix it then it's not of much use after that. i'm not aware of the exact specifications of the Phantom Vision, I guess it has a camera and stuff but this group project isn't really a cost savings exercise, it's a build it yourself and learn how they work exercise. i know for sure that a well built F550 with a decent brushless gimbal will be of more use than a Phantom Vision. For one thing, you'll be able to choose the camera you want to use, it's fixed in the Vision right? i don't know what the Vision uses for a flight control system so if you want to go with the minimum, chances are the Vision doesn't really leave you much to use after you're done with it, it all kind of looks toy-like. for this build you can choose to use a good radio and a good flight control system. if you learn what you can from the process you'll be able to take those good quality items and use them on a larger, more capable helicopter. then again you might like how well this first build is working for you and won't need to build something else. when it wrecks or needs maintenance you'll know exactly what to do because you built it yourself. like i said above, if you can't fix it you'll probably ask better questions because you didn't just pop it out of a box, fly it, wreck it, and then come here looking for answers.

hope that helps everyone as we move along. the videos will have a format where we address leftover stuff from the previous video and then move on to the next topic. i'll get the next one out in the coming days, they won't be hollywood productions but should be informative.

btw, i don't use capital letters if i don't have to because it slows me down! also, opinions are welcome, if you're reading this don't be shy about chiming in if you can add to the conversation.

bart

 

[williammiller]

bart, your comments make a lot of sense. as you prepare the next video, would it make sense to provide us at this time with a general list of items to purchase, or at least begin discussing and getting pricing that we can share? You indicated that you plan to use tiger motors. it seems to make sense that i order the esc's, props, etc at the same time. tks. b

 

[djw43]

thanks Bart

 

[Bartman]

As far as parts go, an F450 or F550 ARF kit would get you started. If anyone chooses to go the route of using the motors I'm using then they'll need the basic F450 or F550 frame kit, as well as an appropriate number of 30A ESC's and props. A foot or two of 10AWG wire for the battery connections and some battery connectors would be needed as well.

for battery connectors I've used Deans, XT60, EC3, EC5, as well as some smaller connectors but I think EC3 connectors are the easiest to use if you're new to soldering. there's a lot of commentary out there about Anderson Power Pole connectors but despite having looked at them a number of times I'm still not using them. they're bigger than the other connectors and I don't think failure rates or soldering challenges amount to enough of a problem to make accommodating the larger size worthwhile. fwiw, i've never had a wire come off of a deans or other soldered connector. i've melted a few connectors in the process of figuring out the right way to do it but never had a wire come off in many hours of flying.

bart

 

[Bartman]

choosing a radio is as much about this project as it is the next one. when i bought my JR 9503 i knew i'd be flying Mikrokopter heli's and the 9503 was very well suited for MK as there was a lot of help available online for that radio/FC combination. a NAZA is happy with just about anything you plug into it. if you know there will be more heli's in your future then a radio with at least 9 channels is a worthwhile investment.

JR 9503
Hitec Aurora 9
Futaba <not sure of which model would be comparable>


There are other high end radios as well that I don't have experience with the Jeti and Graupner brands. Also, Airtronics has been making better radios lately and they're less expensive than some of the other brands. If you by something though and then notice there aren't a lot of other users using what you've bought then it can be a challenge to make things work without much outside help.

fwiw, sometimes i use capital letters, it comes and goes i guess!

 

[Bartman]

most flight control systems will do fine with this build. some might plop right onto the frame and some might need for holes to be drilled. Mikrokopter, Hoverfly, KK2, CC3D, will need to have holes drilled. XAircraft, 3DR, NAZA, DJI WKM, will be attached with double sided tape and/or zip ties. i don't know where the Tau Labs boards fall in this discussion.

The NAZA system might not have the muscle to be your go-to system ad infinitum but it will certainly get you flying and work well enough to last you a long time. MK, HF, XA (maybe), DJI WKM A2, will work well and be pro grade for the foreseeable future. Some do certain things better than others so a lot of what these higher end system do for you is dependent on what you need them to do which brings us back to the NAZA. It's good value for the money and will be enough flight control capability for anyone that is starting out. if you outgrow it, slap it on an FPV heli and go bang it into a tree.

If you've never flown RC then buy the GPS add-on, i'll explain later. if you've flown RC, have some stick skills or spend too much time playing video games then you can probably survive without the GPS.

ANyone happen to have the link to the video showing the guy in China teaching his female assistant to fly by letting here slew the heli around in GPS mode?

 

[md2020]

Prices

In General, prices I'm finding:
DJI F450 kit for around $32 (many sites)
DJI F550 kit for around $45-48 (many sites)
Tiger MT2216-12 $49 (many sites)
DJI 2212 920kv $23 (ebay)
DJI ESC 30A-OPTO 3-4S $20 (ebay)
Naza M V2 with GPS $358 (ebay)

Anyone finding any better prices?

Need more info, brands to lean towards for:
Battery (options? brand? size/model needed?)
Battery Charger
Props
Radio

What else?
MD

 

[Bartman]

In General, prices I'm finding:
DJI F450 kit for around $32 (many sites)
DJI F550 kit for around $45-48 (many sites)
Tiger MT2216-12 $49 (many sites)
DJI 2212 920kv $23 (ebay)
DJI ESC 30A-OPTO 3-4S $20 (ebay)
Naza M V2 with GPS $358 (ebay)

Anyone finding any better prices?

Need more info, brands to lean towards for:
Battery (options? brand? size/model needed?)
Battery Charger
Props
Radio

What else?
MD

Audience participation!! That's what we're talking about here!

batteries will get a lot of personal testimonials for or against.....i use Turnigy Nano-tech because they seem to perform according to rated specs and are affordable. Zippy's have been a disappointment as have Gens Ace....YMMV

battery chargers are also something where people have good and bad experiences.....if you plan to stay small scale, with 4S packs or smaller I'd recommend the CellPro Multi4S....a more serious charger with a lot more capability would be the Hitec X2-400 or the ProgressiveRC iCharger 306B.....both of the larger chargers need a separate power supply and if you try to run them too much off your car battery they will leave it dead when you're ready to drive home.

props, buy whatever is cheap for now like the APC slo-fly props......if using the DJI motors, the new DJI props that come with the ARF kit should be fine. the little quad i bought came with props but i'm afraid they're the old style ones so I'm going to ditch them....I have a bunch of Xoar 10" wood props which I love but they're not good for beginners.

Radios.....I like the JR 9503, it's not super duper expensive and it's worked really well for me.....others may feel strongly about what they've been using. Hitec Aurora 9 has also worked well for me, it's easy to program (any switch--any function), has built in telemetry that can relay battery voltage back to the radio's display, and is about $100 less than the JR

 

[jakesteam1953]

Can I ask why the Naza M V2 over the lite? I am very new here and don't want to over buy but defiantly don't want to get something that will be a waste?

 

[Mojave]

Thanks for doing this Bart. I am in as a Nano Qx graduate taking the next step.

 

[Bartman]

jake, i'm not intimately familiar with the NAZA line of flight control systems. i've owned and flown a NAZA V1 before and i've seen people discussing the Lite. It seems to me the Lite is not quite as capable as the NAZA but maybe if you go and search the NAZA subforum you'll find what i'm referring to....here's one mention

http://www.multirotorforums.com/sho...vs-Naza-M-Lite&p=131094&viewfull=1#post131094

 

[md2020]

Prices - additional items 11/13

In General, prices I'm finding:
DJI F450 kit for around $32 (many sites)
DJI F550 kit for around $45-48 (many sites)
Tiger MT2216-12 $49 (many sites)
DJI 2212 920kv $23 (ebay)
DJI ESC 30A-OPTO 3-4S $20 (ebay)
Naza M V2 with GPS $358 (ebay)


Batteries:
Turnigy Nano-tech
I don't have enough knowledge yet for all the options I find.
We have 3S or 4S choice, then next choice is mah rating.
Do we simply have to decide how much fly time and how much money we want to spend on these?
So if money was no object, for our F450/550's would a 4S 5000 mah be our best bet?



Chargers:
Revolectrix CellPRO Multi4 $62.95 (amainhobbies.com, $64 many sites)
Hitec X2-400 $150 (Tower, many others) addtional pwr supply needed per Bart
ProgressiveRC iCharger 306B $159 (BuddyRC, ProgressiveRC) addtional pwr supply needed per Bart

Need more info, brands to lean towards for:
Battery (options? brand? size/model needed?)
Battery Charger
Props
Radio

What else?
MD​

 

[Bartman]

i have the iCharger 306B but i actually like the Hitec one better. both have enough power to parallel charge packs but the Hitec can run two different charging operations simultaneously letting you do maybe 6S packs on one side and 4S packs on the other. this might not seem like a big deal but as my heli's have become more complicated i'm running different voltage packs for different purposes so the Hitec would be a better charger for me to have in the field. i also happen to have four of the Multi4S chargers all wired up in a tool box so that's how i deal with charging all my packs at the same time when i'm on site somewhere.

as for a power supply, it sounds nice to be able to buy two Dell server power supplies for 10 bucks each and then wire them together but it's more of a hassle than it's worth. a good power supply is about $185 and it will do what it's supposed to do.

if i were you guys i'd buy two packs, probably 4S, 4000mah, 25-50C turnigy nano-tech and the cellpro Multi4S charger with the right charging adapter (I think they're JST-XH or something like that) for the turnigy packs. The Multi4S also needs a power supply but it will work great with a simple $20 unit from amazon or somewhere similar. if you guys lived close enough to me i'd show you i have drawers of this stuff in my shop from the steps i've gone through to get to where i'm at now!

boxes of props, i've got boxes of props!

 

[jakesteam1953]

It was suggested that I look at buying the Futaba 8J radio. Does anyone have a better suggestion or thought on this?