FPV'ers are obtaining HAM licenses?

[Cra-Z-1]

for professional work most "real" companies are switching over to digital systems like terradeck, lightbridge, etc.....

I can hardly wait for digital tech; hopefully the price will come down in a little while. I have seen the lightbridge system and it looks awsome. Spendy for just personal FPV though. Not familiar with "terradeck" yet.

The one thing that comes to mind with digital, is "will you be flying along and just lose the signal altogether though?" I'm curious what/how that will be addressed it at all? I know people desire "Non" blue screening moni's when searching for their ideal setup. Makes sense to me. I get real edgy when I start getting blackouts, even with failsafe.

 

[RTRyder]

I can hardly wait for digital tech; hopefully the price will come down in a little while. I have seen the lightbridge system and it looks awsome. Spendy for just personal FPV though. Not familiar with "terradeck" yet.

The one thing that comes to mind with digital, is "will you be flying along and just lose the signal altogether though?" I'm curious what/how that will be addressed it at all? I know people desire "Non" blue screening moni's when searching for their ideal setup. Makes sense to me. I get real edgy when I start getting blackouts, even with failsafe.

Lightbridge is the least expensive of the current offerings at $1600 per, the industrial strength gear can easily run well over $10K for a single unit. Definitely not something you would buy for a little FPV flying on a weekend afternoon but like everything else the price will be half what DJI is currently asking within a year or less at which point it becomes a little more bearable for a hobbyist with an excess of disposable income.

In the Lightbridge solution all control signals go from the TX through the wifi link so you basically have to rely on failsafe doing it's job if the link gets beyond range or picks up interference from other wifi units. That's one of the problems with the current technology and implementation, it's using the same bands as cordless phones and home wifi routers so the potential for signal clash at a distance in built up areas is fairly high regardless of how creative they get with frequency hopping firmware.

Still it's nice to see the tech finally start advancing from the FPV video TX/RX tech that has been the norm up to now, better things will be coming along and with competition the price will eventually come down to a more reasonable range.

Ken

 

[Cra-Z-1]

Still it's nice to see the tech finally start advancing from the FPV video TX/RX tech that has been the norm up to now, better things will be coming along and with competition the price will eventually come down to a more reasonable range.
Ken

Indeed it is. It seems a bit strange to even be using analog stuff in the present day digital world. It will be neat to see whats around the corner. I'll be waiting on pins and needles!

 

[haha49]

The thing about ham radios it's something that isn't really inforced in allot of areas. Were I live they stopped checking things out unless you do something really stupid due to budget cuts. Meaning what happens in the bush stays in the bush and the chances of getting caught unless you mess with the police or military are slim to none.

 

[kloner]

the cops and feds could care less, it's the guy in his house getting constant keyed with no identifier to help fix his problem. The big threat and one that made me get mine was working at a live sport event, i was transmitting across there permitted channels and that almost got me in trouble. When you see them sattelite trucks like news channels, live broadcast anything, them guys will seek you out on the spot

 

[Scott Drysdale]

DEFINITELY NOT A GOOD IDEA!
I have a 31 page Powerpoint presentation from the HAM radio course on the regulations and consequences of violation that I can send anyone that is interested.
It is guaranteed to make such a person think twice. Depending upon the nature of the violation the penalties can include fines up to $25,000 and/or one year in prison.
In addition to the penalties for interfering with HAM radio communication needed in the event of a natural disaster or for military purposes.... here is just one example...
1-3) Licence Suspension or Revocation, Powers of radio Inspectors, Offences & Punishments

If an amateur pretends there is an emergency and transmits the word
"MAYDAY," this is called False or deceptive signals

A person found guilty of transmitting a false or fraudulent distress signal, or
interfering with, or obstructing any radio communication, without lawful cause,
may be liable, on summary conviction, to a penalty of: a fine, not exceeding
$25 000, or a prison term of one year, or both

The Minister may suspend or revoke a radio authorization WITHOUT NOTICE:
where the holder has failed to comply with a request to pay fees or
interest due

The thing about ham radios it's something that isn't really inforced in allot of areas. Were I live they stopped checking things out unless you do something really stupid due to budget cuts. Meaning what happens in the bush stays in the bush and the chances of getting caught unless you mess with the police or military are slim to none.

 

[Cra-Z-1]

the cops and feds could care less, it's the guy in his house getting constant keyed with no identifier to help fix his problem. The big threat and one that made me get mine was working at a live sport event, i was transmitting across there permitted channels and that almost got me in trouble. When you see them sattelite trucks like news channels, live broadcast anything, them guys will seek you out on the spot

So that being said, what is confusing me, is that someone stated that a HAM license does a person no good, with intent to use it commercially. So if you are transmitting over 25 mW and you are not stomping over someone's frequency, then are you truly safe if your shooting video for commercial reasons? Where lies the grey area, and where lies the black and white? I just want to understand it better.

 

[gtranquilla]

That is a very interesting question..... If the MR is being used for commercial business purposes such as aerial photo/video work.... is the FPV system being used within the HAM frequency band(s) meeting regulatory requirements? Keep in mind that the regulations require the operator's call sign to be automatically transmitted at specific intervals, digitally for this type of system. For simple radio beacon transmitters for audio tone direction tracking the call sign is transmitted every 5 minutes in morse code. But if no one is listening and no-one is being interfered with or bothered by it, then there is no reason to track the MR operator down..... pointless!

So that being said, what is confusing me, is that someone stated that a HAM license does a person no good, with intent to use it commercially. So if you are transmitting over 25 mW and you are not stomping over someone's frequency, then are you truly safe if your shooting video for commercial reasons? Where lies the grey area, and where lies the black and white? I just want to understand it better.

 

[Cra-Z-1]

That is a very interesting question..... If the MR is being used for commercial business purposes such as aerial photo/video work.... is the FPV system being used within the HAM frequency band(s) meeting regulatory requirements? Keep in mind that the regulations require the operator's call sign to be automatically transmitted at specific intervals, digitally for this type of system. For simple radio beacon transmitters for audio tone direction tracking the call sign is transmitted every 5 minutes in morse code. But if no one is listening and no-one is being interfered with or bothered by it, then there is no reason to track the MR operator down..... pointless!

So correct me if I'm not seeing something, but the way I understand it is like this...

"Technically" the answer would be "NO" I wouldn't be legal, regardless, but if no one is listening who cares? LOL! How do I know that no one is listening? How does anyone operating an FPV really know if someone is listening or not? I wouldn't think that only flying within neighborhoods could possibly disrupt somebody on my frequency. Likewise, how could I know what those guys flying the sat dishes frequencies are on so as not to disrupt, even IF I have a license to operate or not?

Kinda seems to me like all these FPV Transmitters everywhere really just turn all of this regulation and interference with HAM into a giant Clusterf**k... kind of also seems to me like somewhere along the lines, some things will have to change. Regulations? Frequency range? IDK...

 

[Cra-Z-1]

DEFINITELY NOT A GOOD IDEA!
I have a 31 page Powerpoint presentation from the HAM radio course on the regulations and consequences of violation that I can send anyone that is interested.
It is guaranteed to make such a person think twice. Depending upon the nature of the violation the penalties can include fines up to $25,000 and/or one year in prison.
In addition to the penalties for interfering with HAM radio communication needed in the event of a natural disaster or for military purposes.... here is just one example...
1-3) Licence Suspension or Revocation, Powers of radio Inspectors, Offences & Punishments

If an amateur pretends there is an emergency and transmits the word
"MAYDAY," this is called False or deceptive signals

A person found guilty of transmitting a false or fraudulent distress signal, or
interfering with, or obstructing any radio communication, without lawful cause,
may be liable, on summary conviction, to a penalty of: a fine, not exceeding
$25 000, or a prison term of one year, or both

The Minister may suspend or revoke a radio authorization WITHOUT NOTICE:
where the holder has failed to comply with a request to pay fees or
interest due

Realistically thinking though; for someone flying an FPV here in the U.S. at least, I really think you would have to be negligent to the Nth degree for those kinds of punishments to be enforced. I'm talking interfering with government or transportation communications devices kind of degree. I really think that the vast majority of Tx's out there are far over 25 mW. Until it becomes a real problem that is; we'll see what the future holds. Can't speak for anywhere else though.

 

[Phaedrus]

As far as 5.8 video TX goes, doesn't matter what the power rating is, if it doesn't have an FCC part 15 ID number on it you need a HAM license to operate it, and I have yet to see any FPV gear that does have an FCC ID. FRSky on the other hand has all of it's gear labeled with the appropriate labels and ID numbers, but that's only on the control side.

Ken

ANd beyond that, if it DOES have a Part 15 sticker on it and you do ANYTHING to it, like change antennas, then you are no longer operating legally in the US unless you have a ham license.

 

[Phaedrus]

So that being said, what is confusing me, is that someone stated that a HAM license does a person no good, with intent to use it commercially. So if you are transmitting over 25 mW and you are not stomping over someone's frequency, then are you truly safe if your shooting video for commercial reasons? Where lies the grey area, and where lies the black and white? I just want to understand it better.

One HUGE gray area is if you are operating anything with a Part 15 sticker that has been modified from the way it was shipped, or if it does not have a sticker at all. I imagine that in the case of an incident one of the first things the other guy's lawyer will look at is if you were operating legally.

Bottom line there is no way to legally operate modified Part 15 equipment for commercial purposes.

 

[Scott Drysdale]

Cra-Z-1,
In the case of 900Mhz and 2.4Ghz spread spectrum and fh-spread spectrum the risk of radio interference is considered nearly non-existent.... hence no victims nor need to protect others from radio interference problems in these bands. In the case of transmission on a licensed frequency no one starts to notice until someone is adversely affected. While a low power, short range transmission for a short period is less likely to harm other radio operators, how does one know for sure that others are not adversely affected when long range FPV transmission is used for longer periods of time?

In the country where you can see for many miles in all directions, should you stop at a controlled intersection just because the law stipulates it? It becomes a dangerous habit. I try to think of others before myself and consider first the harm I can do to them with illegal transmission.

So correct me if I'm not seeing something, but the way I understand it is like this...

"Technically" the answer would be "NO" I wouldn't be legal, regardless, but if no one is listening who cares? LOL! How do I know that no one is listening? How does anyone operating an FPV really know if someone is listening or not? I wouldn't think that only flying within neighborhoods could possibly disrupt somebody on my frequency. Likewise, how could I know what those guys flying the sat dishes frequencies are on so as not to disrupt, even IF I have a license to operate or not?

Kinda seems to me like all these FPV Transmitters everywhere really just turn all of this regulation and interference with HAM into a giant Clusterf**k... kind of also seems to me like somewhere along the lines, some things will have to change. Regulations? Frequency range? IDK...

 

[fj_montilla]

So correct me if I'm not seeing something, but the way I understand it is like this...

"Technically" the answer would be "NO" I wouldn't be legal, regardless, but if no one is listening who cares? LOL! How do I know that no one is listening? How does anyone operating an FPV really know if someone is listening or not? I wouldn't think that only flying within neighborhoods could possibly disrupt somebody on my frequency. Likewise, how could I know what those guys flying the sat dishes frequencies are on so as not to disrupt, even IF I have a license to operate or not?

Kinda seems to me like all these FPV Transmitters everywhere really just turn all of this regulation and interference with HAM into a giant Clusterf**k... kind of also seems to me like somewhere along the lines, some things will have to change. Regulations? Frequency range? IDK...

There's plenty of listeners out there, like airports regional and small, radio station engineers, etc. you just won't know they're there. That's why you're required to comply with a call sign transmission. Some OSD systems will take care of transmitting your call-sign automatically. If you plan to fly commercially, with a groundstation or goggles, you should just get the Ham License. You dont need a course in the matter, really. I started studying two weeks before the test, a few hours every other day. Passed it just fine.

 

[haha49]

Cra-Z-1,
In the case of 900Mhz and 2.4Ghz spread spectrum and fh-spread spectrum the risk of radio interference is considered nearly non-existent.... hence no victims nor need to protect others from radio interference problems in these bands. In the case of transmission on a licensed frequency no one starts to notice until someone is adversely affected. While a low power, short range transmission for a short period is less likely to harm other radio operators, how does one know for sure that others are not adversely affected when long range FPV transmission is used for longer periods of time?

In the country where you can see for many miles in all directions, should you stop at a controlled intersection just because the law stipulates it? It becomes a dangerous habit. I try to think of others before myself and consider first the harm I can do to them with illegal transmission.

It's simple I just look up the location and what is in the area. Radar towers, Cell phone, microwave, internet ect. Then I look up what band they use and stay off it. They tend to over power what you can put out anyways as they get permits for the high power stuff. For the ham stuff I have very little in my area so. I fly 2.4 radio (no probems there) I also fly 5.8 for video also no problem as it's the free band and the only things that use 5.8 are airliners with weather radar. If they fly over they kill the signal due to the amount of power they output. With the airliners it doesn't matter with 5.8 due some houses use the same band for wireless networks so flying through places it's expected to have problems.