Diviner Gregg
Member
New video every other Friday. And race day Friday comes a little early this time. This is the first of a new series called "Race School".
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FPV Racing
- Thread starter Diviner Gregg
- Start date
littledevile420
Member
another good video Gregg. keep it up
Diviner Gregg
Member
Thanks.
Have you started a racing league in your area?
Check out our league and perhaps consider creating one in meetup.
http://www.meetup.com/FPV-Tree-Racing-League-Chicago/
littledevile420
Member
Just about got it organized. We are still discussing if we want to run just a spec class or add an open class or just have an open class. some of people went all out on there builds on power, but as i have seen in practice most of there set ups pull the same times and slower due to all the twists and turn. But yea its coming around nicely. Should be a fun season.
Diviner Gregg
Member
Yup. Same thing here.
When I was trying different setups, I was slower with the power setup (2204 6x4.5). You lose throttle stick resolution and it is harder, thus slower than a typical 2204/ 5x4 setup assuming the course is actually challenging (duck unders and more than 1000 degree of turns).
Also, the guys with the big power want simpler courses and usually are less skilled. I just tell them to go into the beginners class where they fly around the tough stuff.
littledevile420
Member
exactly
Diviner Gregg
Member
Killer FPV Tree Racers promo vid from one of our racers. Check out the flip edit at 1:00
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littledevile420
Member
i spotted a hex in the bunch, looks like a fun course.
Diviner Gregg
Member
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Final Glide
Member
I think you'd better have a look at some proper thrust tests cause then you'll see the 2204's destroy the 1806's when put under higher load. Sure there's little difference with GF 5030's but who in their right mind runs those anymore? Fact is when you push an 1806 with something like a HQ5x4.5 bullnose prop it can't take it and heats up where the 2204's love it. Of course when you go 4s the gap gets even bigger.
There have been some pretty inaccurate and inconsistent tests done by some people. Check out the trust worthy thrust testers like Soma on RCGroups.
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Final Glide
Member
How we do indoor racing in Australia...
And some raw footage...
Final Glide
Member
Regarding reducing rates, never ever reduce the rates in your tx as that just reduces the resolution in the stick movement. Always adjust rates in the tx to 125% and then adjust the rates to suit in the FC.
Bartman
Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
i never thought of using a parking garage, that's an excellent idea for a race course!
we may have to do another group build this winter around the Quad Racing format of small, simple, inexpensive, and lightweight.....anyone interested in a group built racer?
Diviner Gregg
Member
Hmm. I got my data from Mustang (not soma!)
I will summarize DYS 1806 vs Sunnysky 2204. For more info, google "Thrust Test DYS1806" and "Thrust Test Sunnysky 2204".
DYS BE1806 2300KV Brushless Motors:
HQ 5040 Prop - 440 Grams pulling 10.6A @ 100% / 225 Grams pulling 4.2A @ 50%
SunnySky X2204S 2300KV Brushless Motors:
HQ 5040 Prop - 360 Grams pulling 8.9A @ 100% / 135 Grams pulling 2.2A @ 50%
According to Soma, the Sunny Sky's are pretty much worthless in the 2204 class. Many people refer to Soma and EngineerX on RCG. But I believe they only test 1 motor, so they have a sample size of 1. But I have done real world in flight blade thrust testing (see my blade shootout video) and my results were on par with bench tests, so I have no reason to doubt of his results since they matched my real world flying tests. My real world testing also tests handling and air resistance, something not easily tested on the bench.
People make uniformed decisions. But in the 2204 class, SS's are the worst if we believe SOMA and others. In fact, the difference is significant for the blade we use in our spec class (hq5x4gf SS 360 vs DYS 440).
A lot of newcomers to our race league start out wanting SS 2204 since that is what they hear. I created a performance knowledge base for racers in our league and give them data to make an informed decision. For motors, that leads them Cobras, TT and a few others, but not SS. For the budget minded, we direct them to 1806 for the spec class, or buy a bundle. One of our sponsors offer a 2204 upgrade from the 1806 for only $4 more. That only $1 per motor! And its a decent motor (Emax2204) that they don't have to upgrade for a long time.
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Diviner Gregg
Member
Most people only use half of their stick throw which forces them to be very precise and that creates slower times.
Perhaps we have a terminology problem.
You want more stick movement (stick resolution) for racing, not less. You do this by first setting up your FC and radio for acrobatic flying. Then for racing, add dual rates which will send out a porportionally lower PWM across the entire stick throw . This means you have to move your stick more to do a turn. For racing, you don't need much throw to do a 90 degree bank turn. I use 70% on my Taranis. That way I use all of my stick for turning. And I don't have to touch my FC.
Another tip that will be in my next video is to increase the stick tension. TX manufacturers stick need to be stiffer which makes finding center easier. This is one of the first things I do with noobies.
A third trick is to change some of the naze commands. Resolution can be improved by changing Throttle setting / min and max. For my motor/esc combo I use 1810 and 1100. Before changing this, I was losing about 20% of my throttle resolution.
Final Glide
Member
That data you quoted is NOT from Soma. Our latest data shows the SS2204 producing 460g on 5x4 but why wouldn't you just go to the 5x4.5 HQ bullnose when the thrust jumps to 600g thrust on 3s. It's worth noting that the bullnose is massively more durable than the 5x4 which vastly reduces broken props which should interest you as budget seems to be high on your priorities. Seeing as Soma sells only the SS2204 motors on his website and the fact that he himself won't run 1806 motors on this type of setup I decided to ask him since we fly regularly together and he doesn't know what your on about. Please stop misquoting him.
Yes there was one stage where the SS2204's were down on power (likely due to inferior magnets), just like every others Chinese motor manufacturer has QC issues from time to time. Just like the horrid bearings in the DYS and Cobra motors. Just like the wrong KV in the Cobra and white spy quads 2204's. Just like the Cobra 2208 shaft only being inserted 3mm into the bell without grub screws (just to name a few). The important thing is that they fix the issue which most manufacturers do.
Btw: we also do plenty of real world testing which also includes eagle tree logging traces and speed traps and with the info we have gained I would only recommend either the SS2204 or the Cobra 2204 for racing mini quads. The 1806's are only good for GF5030. Going more aggressive than that and the motors start to drop off.
Final Glide
Member
Yes I think there is a terminology problem here. Moving the stick more or less is not resolution, it is "stick travel". How many steps the FC see's in the full stick travel is "resolution". An FC will see a PWM signal ranging from 1000 to 2000. With something like a DX8 (I think that's what you fly) with 100% dual rates in the tx the naze32 FC will see a step range between 1150 and 1850. If you increase the tx dual rates to 125% the FC will see closer to 1000 - 2000 range. More step in the same stick travel means better resolution and In turn a smoother flying quad.
Now of course what you've done by increases the dual rates is make the quad faster responding and yes you want to bring the rates down to a level that stops it being hard to control as you previously stated but the way to do that is reduce the RC rate in the Naze 32 which will reduce it without compromising theresolution. This is similar to what you are talking about with increasing the throttle resolution.
Another thing to consider is to add a bit of roll/pitch rate. This reduces your PID's as you move you stick away from centre so works kind of like expo... But different
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Final Glide
Member
Hi Bartman, no I'm not associated with any company. I'm just part of a group of mad keen racers that enjoys pushing designs and setups in mini racing quads. I am good friends with Soma who makes the Warpquad frames but don't have anything to do with the business. I just enjoy his awesome products .
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Bartman
Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
Hi Bartman, no I'm not associated with any company. I'm just part of a group of mad keen racers that enjoys pushing designs and setups in mini racing quads. I am good friends with Soma who makes the Warpquad frames but don't have anything to do with the business. I just enjoy his awesome products
is warpquad a shop online or do other people distribute them? i'm going to build a racer and try to get a group going in northern NJ.....gotta start somewhere so a good referral to a good dude is a nice place to start