Dual Mode (Hopefully) Tarot Ironman 650 Build

[Pumpkinguy]

Where did you order the Tarot frame? I have been looking online and it seems the only dealers are in Asia. Is that correct? I hate ordering anything from Asia.
Also, you owe us an update. Video would be my first choice but no pressure

 

[SJBrit]

Sorry! Been struggling to make progress with too much business travel :-\ I have the 4S/17" config pretty much dialed-in now - I put the Naza gains on a couple of dials on my Futaba and did some flying in a pretty stiff wind. It's flying really nicely and I was very impressed with how it handled the gusts with those large props. I have it set up to be smooth and steady in this mode - not too responsive for some calm AP.

I'll struggle to do much with it this week because of travel again, but I'll try to post an update at the weekend. Jobs remaining:

• 6S/14" Gains
• Speed test in both configs
• Get camera position finalized and cut rails
• Solder dual battery adapter (I've been flying with both batteries mounted but only a single connected for now while I figure out how I want to do the Y connector)
• Get the Naza battery limits finalized - they're kicking in a bit early right now

Once I've figure out how to edit my original post I'll get everything written up there.

As for the frame, I bought it from Hobby King - good price and fast delivery (well, relatively fast).

 

[SJBrit]

Sorry for the long gap between updates - been traveling lots so very little time to work on this. I also had a motor mishap - I stripped a thread putting a prop on but KDE were AWESOME - totally covered under warranty - they sent me a brand new motor. Very good service!

I will have to post more details later, but here's the list of things I've been working on:

• Getting the last bits dialed in on the quad: I finally got the power connections how I want them for ease of connection/disconnection and no sparks
• Getting the autopilot gains where I want them. I discovered something frustrating about the Naza: it prioritizes position hold over altitude hold. The way this shows up is if you snap the sticks back to center after full speed flight in GPS mode. The Naza has to arrest the motion, so it commands "reverse thrust" by pitching backwards, and it also has to maintain altitude. If the pitch command to arrest motion has to be very large, then there isn't enough vertical-authority left and the quad loses altitude as it stabilizes it's position. Not cool, DJI. So I'm juggling my vertical and attitude gains to find a good compromise.
• I've been getting my ground station set up. This has to be a grab-and-go deal: no time for tripods and such - when the hounds run, I have to get in the air fast. So, getting all of the following in an easy to carry configuration has been amusing:
  • Futaba 14SG
  • 7" LCD
  • EzUHF Tx
  • 900 MHz diversity Rx
  • Two 900 MHz antennas including an enormous 11dBi patch!
  • Lipo
  • DVR
  • And where the heck am I going to mount my iPad mini for real time quad tracking and telemetry via the Tiny Telemetry...?!
• Building truck mounts for the quad and the ground station which have to withstand some fast and furious off-roading but yet be quick to mount and stow the hardware.
• Gimbal clamp to stabilize the camera under said alarming off-road action!
• Been messing with a quad carry handle which locks the arms in their folded position, makes it easy to carry the quad, and creates a handy grip mechanism that turns the quad into a handheld steady-cam.

So - lots to show you! Will try to snap pictures later, but stay tuned: tons more info coming.

 

[AzViper]

I finally got the extra center plate yesterday so I've been able to finish the build. Here it is almost ready to fly - just got to wire the battery connectors on and hook up the gimbal and Video Tx. I'm really happy with how it went together with the ESCs and power distribution on one layer, then adding another layer on top for all the rest of the electronics. I have no idea how I'd have stuffed everything in there if I hadn't doing it this way - ESCs hanging underneath I suppose. Anyway, a little more soldering in the morning then the moment of truth....

Where do I get longer carbon fiber rails to extend the gimbal out further, and what size are those? I do not want to see any rotors in the finished video.

 

[SJBrit]

Where do I get longer carbon fiber rails to extend the gimbal out further, and what size are those? I do not want to see any rotors in the finished video.

My local RC store had the longer tubing. It's 10mm OD, 8mm ID as I recall. It works great pushing the camera forward since it keeps it clear of the props and acts as a nice counter-balance for the rear battery. The top battery is right on the CofG so if I want to fly with just one then I can leave the top one off and everything stays in balance.

 

[AzViper]

Looking at the KDE 4014XF-380 motors you used they have lots of thrust compared to the Tiger motors I have been looking at. Using nearing the same prop and same voltage each KDE motor puts out nearly 1000 grams more thrust, but twice the weight of the Tiger motors. I am going to need to do some rethinking of my plans. Where did you purchase the additional top Tarot 650 top plate? I like the idea of the ESC mounted inboard and the electronics mounted above. Could you have mounted the battery below on the gimbal rails instead of the top to lower the vertical C of G?

 

[SJBrit]

Looking at the KDE 4014XF-380 motors you used they have lots of thrust compared to the Tiger motors I have been looking at. Using nearing the same prop and same voltage each KDE motor puts out nearly 1000 grams more thrust, but twice the weight of the Tiger motors. I am going to need to do some rethinking of my plans. Where did you purchase the additional top Tarot 650 top plate? I like the idea of the ESC mounted inboard and the electronics mounted above. Could you have mounted the battery below on the gimbal rails instead of the top to lower the vertical C of G?

Yes, I really like the KDE motors, and you just can't beat their support if you ever have a problem. I got the extra center plate directly from Tarot but the shipping was appallingly slow and if you can find it from anywhere else then I would go for it.

I terms of the battery, yes: I could have hung it down low but I wanted to keep it clear down there for antennas - I have a 900MHz Blue-Beam antenna hanging down there. Also, it's much easier to access the battery when it's sitting on top. The FC doesn't mind the CofG being up there at all.

 

[AzViper]

It took some messing to get the KDEs to work with the stock 650 mounts but I got it sorted and it's a solid and tidy fit now.

What kind of issues did you have?

Hover looked really nice and stable but I do have to get the gains dialed in a bit better tomorrow and the battery thresholds are all wrong.

What do you mean by, "to get the gains dialed in better" I suspect this is something do do within the transmitter.

 

[SJBrit]

What kind of issues did you have?

Nothing major. It turns out that there's only one orientation of the motor on the mounting plate that allows the motor to sit flush and avoid the fasteners that clamp the plate to the arm. That's a bit of trial and error but once you find the magic orientation it's fine. Then I had to cut down the bolts since the ones KDE supplied were too long for the thin Tarot mounting plate - the bolts would actually touch the stator. Five minutes with a cutting wheel on the Dremel and I had them all hacked down to size - I think I took about 3 turns of thread off.

Sorry but I am a newbie so I have to ask, What do you mean by, "to get the gains dialed in better" I suspect this is something do do within the transmitter.

This is referring to the autopilot gains on the Naza. There are basic gains which affect how the quad will respond to perturbations, so for example how quickly or slowly it will deal with a wind gust. Then there are attitude gains which adjust how it responds to your stick inputs on the Tx. High gains are more responsive up to a point, but then things can get twitchy and unstable. There's a balancing act to get these where you want them, and it REALLY helps if you have a TX with dials on it since the Naza software allows you to assign gains to the dials and adjust them while you are flying. That way you can crank them up till things start to get out of hand and then back down a bit till it all settles out.

 

[SJBrit]

I used this one: http://www.helipal.com/power-line-board-4-8-propellers-drone-type-b.html

The holes line right up with the holes in the Tarot center plate. Here's my wiring diagram:

 

[SJBrit]

Wow, that came out small - sorry. Let me try that again:

 

[AzViper]

You stumped me with your power layout. You got more on there than I will be using I believe.

 

[SJBrit]

You stumped me with your power layout. You got more on there than I will be using I believe.

That's fine - I have stuff that's not strictly necessary. I just like that power distro board since it gives plenty of outputs for various devices.

 

[SJBrit]

Hi SJB,

I will be going with the Taranis X9D plus with the L9R receiver. Its a long range receiver. The only trade off its not a Telemetry receiver but I have been told I can get this info from the Naza, is this what your doing?

I get most of what I want through the iOSD mini. I added the Tiny Telemetry since that gives me actual battery energy used (in mAh) and also real-time GPS coords. I can view my location on Google maps in real-time, and I record the telemetry on a DVR so I can also play it back. That way on the off chance I lose the quad I can replay its final moments and have a pretty good chance of finding it.

 

[AzViper]

This is referring to the autopilot gains on the Naza. There are basic gains which affect how the quad will respond to perturbations, so for example how quickly or slowly it will deal with a wind gust. Then there are attitude gains which adjust how it responds to your stick inputs on the Tx. High gains are more responsive up to a point, but then things can get twitchy and unstable. There's a balancing act to get these where you want them, and it REALLY helps if you have a TX with dials on it since the Naza software allows you to assign gains to the dials and adjust them while you are flying. That way you can crank them up till things start to get out of hand and then back down a bit till it all settles out.

I suspect that either S1 or S2 can be programed to adjust the gains. Not having the radio in hand and the entire manual is embedded into the radio the quick start manual is really of no use that I found online.

 

[AzViper]

What's your flying weight of your quad?

 

[SJBrit]

I plan to run at 6s of which 22.2 volts. In your drawing your running two batteries in parallel. The NAZA will operate between 7.4v through 26.0 volt. Power from your distribution board feeds the PMU of which I assume feeds the NAZA V2 and RX 5 volts.will need to step the volts down from 22.2 volts to 5 volts for the TX and 12 volts for the gimbal and possibly 5 volts for the GoPro.

In my case if the above is true then this will work for me as well to feed power to the NAZA and receiver. The Immersion TX I am using needs 5 volts and the FeiyuTech G3 3-Axis Gimbal operates between 9v-17v and has an integrated controller/drivers/motors.

I will need to step the volts down from 22.2 volts to 5 volts for the TX and 12 volts for the gimbal and possibly 5 volts for the GoPro .

Yes, you can put 6S straight into the PMU which will run the Naza and the Rx. I wouldn't worry about 5V for the GoPro - it has a great battery which will be onboard anyway so you may as well not pull the few electrons it takes to run it from your flight pack. My VTx runs at 12V so the BEC I have is dedicated to that. It could easily run your gimbal too. If you need 5V elsewhere then you can pull from a spare channel on the Rx like I have done to power the Tiny Telemetry. Be careful of current draw and current spikes though. I am running a big capacitor on one of my spare Rx channels to protect it from losing lock during a brown-out caused by other components.