WKM with Sky Jib 8 in windy conditions

[jochen braune]

Hi everybody.
Im flying a Sky Jib 8 Frame, with WKM , Herkules 3 Boards, Plettenberg Orbit 15/20 Motors and Xoar 14/5 Props.

When i did my first flights it was no wind at all. I set up all the Gains with potis on X2 and X3, with almost perfect results.
Even Video shooting in GPS Mode was possible. Something that never worked with my Mikrokopter Set Up.

Atti Gains 112
Nick, Roll 175, Yaw 140 , Vertical 130

Today there was a little bit of wind and i had very poor results. the Kopter was very shaky on Nick Roll and Yaw.
That was much better with MK FC 2.1

Do You have other Gain settings for windy Days ? If yes, do i have to change the Basic or the Atti Gains?
Does it make sense to use smaller Props on windy days ?

Thanks for your answers

Jochen

 

[ksrimoungchanh]

Jochen,

I know that the Gains are effected by weight of aircraft too. Not sure if I shared my S800 gains with you it would really mean much. I have 2 S800, one is fully loaded with Zen, 2 VTX, 6lbs of batteries.. and the other is just the S800 frame with WKM also.

From the beginning, both gains were different even with just S800 FRAME and WKM.. they weren't even close. One was set at default.. 100 across the board.. flew fine in no wind or low wind. The other had to be bump up to the 200-220 range across.. then both flew that same.

Interesting thing.. the S800 that I started to add Zen, and VTX's did not have to change any gains as I added weight. The other unit that did not have anything added, had to be adjusted here and there.. up and down. it eventually is sitting at about 160-180 across all the settings.

I was told that they heavier the craft the higher the gains... My heavier unit is at 200-220 my lighter one is at 160-180.

Your number looks low for what I have seen for a heavy lifter.. maybe it also has to do with motors, esc.. props too.

is your flight characteristic in the wind slushy or quick and nimble? Are you using anything to do remote gain adjustments? or are you landing it plugging in the laptop and changing it?

KS

 

[Droider]

I have three sets of gains I use depending on conditions and payloads. It is going to be much easier when the BT module comes out foe on the fly setting adjustment.

What I do no is that the WKM seems to like the props spinning fast, thats why I could never understand the low KV and paddle props on the S800.

I have possted a video of my ADX3 in the wind and have another one here to post of my SJX4. Both where flown in 20mph winds. I started with 13" on the ADX and have now been flying it over a year on 11x5 Graupners PERFECT.

On the SJLX4 I started with 14x4.5 Gemfan/Torxpoer paddle type props but am now on 13x6.5 Xoar's Video here of flight yesterday, not overly windy but still justy as can be seen from the trees.

http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?7018-Droiderbuilt-SkyJib-Lite-4x

ADX3 in wind here

http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?8011-ADX3-HL-Sony-CX730-wind-testing-(NO-BOSS)

Dave

 

[Macsgrafs]

Doing well Dave, very impressive.

Ross

 

[redridinghood]

I have an identical octocopter and my basic gains are 160-170ish. What is your AUW? First guess is that your props are too big for your weight. Also keep in mind that the WKm will never be as smooth as a MK in wind.

 

[Lanzar]

Just accept that dji with normal okto configuration will never be good in wind. Maybe some small high picth props would help a lot. That is why other solutions exist like coax which fly better.

 

[Droider]

Also keep in mind that the WKm will never be as smooth as a MK in wind.

WHY?.. I would like to see the proof of that. Against a WKM I know my MK could never be flown in the winds I fly my WKM's in. Coax may not be the best for perfect weather conditions but Lanzar is spot on in the wind coax rule. Here in the UK if all we had was flat 6 or flat 8 we would never get any work done.

Thats why I fly the ADX3 Y6 config and for more weight the new SkyJib Lite X4 for the vast majority of work. We have S800's and flat 6 and 8 Skyjibs but always in my van are the Y6 and the X4

Dave

 

[jochen braune]

Thanks for all your answers. I was flying again today with a bit stronger wind. About 10- 23 kmh.
putting the basic gain for nick and roll helped a bit.
but changing from xoar 14/5 to cfk 12/6 made a big difference. It behaves much smoother now.
Takes some more Amps ( about 80a hovering with 8 kg).

lanzer, why does a koax fly smoother in wind like a standart Okto.
im thinking about building a second Sky jib. Maybe a koax okto is a alternativ?
Warm regards from Hamburg, germany and a happy new year.

jochen

 

[Droider]

im thinking about building a second Sky jib. Maybe a koax okto is a alternativ?

Perfect, you will have the best of both worlds there then.

Dave

 

[redridinghood]

WHY?.. I would like to see the proof of that. Against a WKM I know my MK could never be flown in the winds I fly my WKM's in. Coax may not be the best for perfect weather conditions but Lanzar is spot on in the wind coax rule.Dave

http://vimeo.com/28706477

I fail to see many DJI FC's producing this kind of smooth flights. Even with the mighty Zenmuse DJI cannot bring fluidity to the stiff and wobbly Wookong. I do agree that the Wkm is easier to fly, but easier does not mean better.

As to the X8 performing better than a flat 8 my two identical SJ8 one flat and one X8 fly mostly similar in wind. In calm weather the flat 8 produces slightly more fluid movements.

Two directors I have been working under as a DP recognize Wkm produced shots and will not use them in their work. One says that the shots make him constipated. I agree ;-)

 

[Lanzar]

http://vimeo.com/28706477

I fail to see many DJI FC's producing this kind of smooth flights. Even with the mighty Zenmuse DJI cannot bring fluidity to the stiff and wobbly Wookong. I do agree that the Wkm is easier to fly, but easier does not mean better.

As to the X8 performing better than a flat 8 my two identical SJ8 one flat and one X8 fly mostly similar in wind. In calm weather the flat 8 produces slightly more fluid movements.

Two directors I have been working under as a DP recognize Wkm produced shots and will not use them in their work. One says that the shots make him constipated. I agree ;-)

COAX beats normal config on Mikrokopter and WKM. Try mikrokopter DODEKA and you will see stable performance in wind with a lot off piloting skils.

I will not coment on video except on way too much panning and roll drift is present 24/7 , looks like wkm stabilization or skyline was used.
I will not justify my words here but from our experience and we are taking in xxx h of testing and all wkm is only usable as coax in all situations it beets a normal config. And coax is 100% better than normal. If you take our hammer in the air with total weight around 15kg it is stable as a rock. Even 20kmh wind is not noticable. We had tested on cs8 normal with unlimited suply off props and motors and coax and coax was perfect. But after all if you do not have pan lock and some good stabilization electronics you will not be able to produce a good result and a good gimball can be used no mater on how the kopter performs. FLy manual and wkm will be like a MK.
I dont belive any DOP can see the difference betwenn WKM and microkopter and hooverfly. If they were flown with the same pilot and same gimball. It is just not possible.

 

[Droider]

I dont belive any DOP can see the difference betwenn WKM and microkopter and hooverfly. If they were flown with the same pilot and same gimball. It is just not possible.

Thats if the pilot is competent with all three!

If a DOP has that much knowledge of MR's then he is one in a LOT! All the ones I have shot for have been made up with what we have achieved. I guess its all about perception and what they expect. If you want LOTR type shots then pay for the best hele/streadycam what ever but if you are on a budget then MRs can get the shots. Take a look at the DW show reel thread. Yes I am sure Spielberg would shake his head but for stuff like Redbull and the likes want its a bloody gift from heaven.

Anyone jumping in to MRs thinking they are a flying steady cam are dreaming. BUT look at what Zaxis and Lazar and others have produced and there is a place for them.. they just need to be pitched correctly to the DOP.

Dave

 

[Benjamin Rowland]

This thread reminds me that I have got to try a coax at some point!

 

[Droider]

May be I should nip over and give you a demo! Weather your side of the pond HAS to be better than here... me thumbs are seizing up!

Think I might go put a rain jacket on my 450 and fly it from the van!

DAve