I have $6K - what to buy?
- Thread starter adanac
- Start date
Bartman
Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
i'm finishing up a new Hexa with A2 for control and the Zenmuse-GH3 (technically the Z15-GH3), new KDE motors, retracts, new Futaba T14SG
the build thread is here
http://www.multirotorforums.com/sho...exacopter-Build-DJI-A2-KDE-4012XF-Zenmuse-GH3
i may put the helicopter up for sale as soon as it's done and I've had a chance to check everything. the frame is unorthodox but you could just dump everything on an S800 when the time comes and carry on your merry way. it's set up for two-man operation, if that's a factor.
it'll sell with the radio, rtf for retail value of the components. i'm kind of deciding to stick with Mikrokopter since that is what i know best. i'll know for sure by the end of next week.
you can come out on a saturday and i'll get you all set up and comfortable with it.
bart
the build thread is here
http://www.multirotorforums.com/sho...exacopter-Build-DJI-A2-KDE-4012XF-Zenmuse-GH3
i may put the helicopter up for sale as soon as it's done and I've had a chance to check everything. the frame is unorthodox but you could just dump everything on an S800 when the time comes and carry on your merry way. it's set up for two-man operation, if that's a factor.
it'll sell with the radio, rtf for retail value of the components. i'm kind of deciding to stick with Mikrokopter since that is what i know best. i'll know for sure by the end of next week.
you can come out on a saturday and i'll get you all set up and comfortable with it.
bart
SoCal Blur
Member
The frame isn't so unorthodox, QuadLugs has been doing it for some time www.quadlugs.com and it works well.
One thing I should have mentioned is that I must be able to fold/break down for car/plane transport. I was also thinking a Tarot but I don't know much about them and find it difficult to get reliable information on them - it's all promotional and poorly translated. If I thought I could save a lot on one (vs. an S800) I'd consider it.
Bartman
Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
Well, all of the components are there, you'd just have to swap the parts over...if I decide to sell it, not sure what to tell you otherwise...you're using DJI at this point so sticking with that is probably a good idea
jfro
Aerial Fun
I think you need to supply more info. Does the amount include batteries, chargers, radio, etc or is this just for the gimbal
For the BMPC & GH3, you can fly a quad, hex, 0cto, or x8. For the 5d, you will most likely need to drop the quad from the equation.
If I had that amount of money, I might be tempted to lay down 5k on the Movi gimbal and build a hex around that. However, at the cost of the Movi, I might go x8 or octo to protect the gimbal investment.
Can you build your own are you looking for a RTF build.
I have all those cameras and have built 3 units to fly them plus a gopro. I have 3 flight controllers and am having verying love/hate relationships with them.
Most of my stuff is built by me, although just 1 of my gimbals is home built.
If you go with the something like a mid range gimbal with the new Alexmos 32bit board, you should be able to accomplish what you need for the lower of your 2 numbers, depending on the cost of your electronics.
My 650 quad is running KDE 3520's and the x8 850mm is running Avroto 3515's. So far, I'm happy with them, but don't know enough to know if these were the best choices, but I'm content with them and I'm gradually getting the type of footage I want.
My 650mm quad with 3520's and naza v2 is a pretty smooth flying MR and easily carries my GH2, GH3, and gopro. I didn't have great luck with my BMPC as I don't have IOS (image stabilization) on my lens for the BMPC and that shows some vibration on the quad. It may be I could get it out with some work, but have decided to sell the BMPC and GH3 and use that money for the GH4. I've found that even though my x8 is the best for the gh3, having 18lbs in the air is a lot more stressfull than flying the same on the smaller quad. It's just more fun flying the quad when the wind is light or non existent. Just no redundancy.
Hopefully, since I have all the cameras, you can get something from my random rambling.
redridinghood
Member
Best way to go is to build one yourself. Forget about the crappy DJI frames and get something reliable. Lots of frames out there. My advice is to forget the other two cameras and build around the GH4.
jfro
Aerial Fun
I'd agree on the frames. I'd even suggest get rectangle FC or Aluminum arms. I've switched on all mine and it's much easier to keep motors aligned than on round arms, esp with the newer low KV motors.
As to the 4k Camera. I sort of agree, but you have to be willing to spend more on storage. When you double the size of the resolution you capture, you quadruple the size of the data, ie, storage space. Takes longer to edit, bigger computers etc.....
I'm probably going to get a 4k GH4, but will keep 2 of my hacked gh2's, as the video is pretty good and the size is pretty small. I will limit my 4k shooting even though I have more storage than I need. It adds up fast.
Without any consensus on what frame, motors, battery, props, etc., I would have to do all that research and do everything else required to buy, build, test, etc. I'm not against that, but I don't have a lot of time now that flying season is here.
My typical client has his own editors so storage/editing is not a worry for me.
My typical client has his own editors so storage/editing is not a worry for me.
jfro
Aerial Fun
I can't help on the frame as I don't have any that fold. Mine go in my car or van.
I do know I'd probably go with the KDE 3520 motors. I have 4 on a quad and I fly a 3 axis gopro or 2 axis gimbal with hacked gh2 and just his week flew it with the gh3. Slow flying was pretty good but not sure if the light weight gimbal can hold up for the gh3, but I'll use it and just fly slow. If I'm charging a good penny for flying, I'd go hex or X8.
There seems to be problems with some of the low KV motors with high pole count so I'd stay away from them for a year. 3520, 3515's / 400kv seem to be ok.
I'd look into the Hexcrafter, Vulcan UAV, or Carbon Core frames which all use arms that aren't round. I don't know much about the folding qualities, but I do know they talk about folding on a couple of those.
Not sure what to tell you on the FC, there are lots out there and all have pros and cons. I'm still looking for the "one". Sounds like you may be looking the DJI way and if you do, you could look to the Zenmuse z-15 for gh3/ gh4 if you are ok with one setup and lens. Good footage coming from them if you don't need more options for camera's or lens.
For gimbal, I'm a either all in or go cost effective & save money. If I could afford it, I'd go with the Movi for 5 grand. If not, I'd go for a 32bit Alexmos based gimbal. There's a boatload to choose from and you could get into one for $600 - $2500 depending on who you go with.
If you have jobs lined up, you may not have time for the Alexmos and have to go with Zenmuse z-15 or the Movi. Being under the gun in production may dictate ease of setup and use.
So many decisions, so little time. Good luck.
I do know I'd probably go with the KDE 3520 motors. I have 4 on a quad and I fly a 3 axis gopro or 2 axis gimbal with hacked gh2 and just his week flew it with the gh3. Slow flying was pretty good but not sure if the light weight gimbal can hold up for the gh3, but I'll use it and just fly slow. If I'm charging a good penny for flying, I'd go hex or X8.
There seems to be problems with some of the low KV motors with high pole count so I'd stay away from them for a year. 3520, 3515's / 400kv seem to be ok.
I'd look into the Hexcrafter, Vulcan UAV, or Carbon Core frames which all use arms that aren't round. I don't know much about the folding qualities, but I do know they talk about folding on a couple of those.
Not sure what to tell you on the FC, there are lots out there and all have pros and cons. I'm still looking for the "one". Sounds like you may be looking the DJI way and if you do, you could look to the Zenmuse z-15 for gh3/ gh4 if you are ok with one setup and lens. Good footage coming from them if you don't need more options for camera's or lens.
For gimbal, I'm a either all in or go cost effective & save money. If I could afford it, I'd go with the Movi for 5 grand. If not, I'd go for a 32bit Alexmos based gimbal. There's a boatload to choose from and you could get into one for $600 - $2500 depending on who you go with.
If you have jobs lined up, you may not have time for the Alexmos and have to go with Zenmuse z-15 or the Movi. Being under the gun in production may dictate ease of setup and use.
So many decisions, so little time. Good luck.
Great post, thank you. As it's now mid-May, I don't know if I have the time to learn all that I'd need to in order to build one, which is not to mention the temporal realities of such an undertaking. You always realize that you forgot to purchase a critical part, you order it, wait for the seller to ship (which might be 8 days if you use All e RC, who will not tell you they have decided not to ship right away), hope it's the right thing, repeat. I think it would probably take me 3 months to invent a new multi, which would be necessary since there doesn't appear to be a standard non-DJI ship.
I think I'm probably locked into an S800 at this point.
I think I'm probably locked into an S800 at this point.
Bartman
Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
this was more true a couple of years ago but it isn't a problem today if you use the right ESC's. SimonK flashed ESC's have been having problems recently with higher pole count motors (3520 and 3515 motors aren't high pole count, they have 12 poles which is, more or less, normal number of poles). I'm using Tiger and Hobbywing Pro Platinum ESC's with high pole count motors (KDE 4012XF, Tiger MN4012, and MT4008-18) and they're fine.
the Alexmos gimbal controllers continue to be problematic. they're difficult to tune and the settings will be different from one board to another as well as from one camera to another. there's definitely a learning curve and it's steep even after you''ve been using them for a while.
jfro
Aerial Fun
"the Alexmos gimbal controllers continue to be problematic. they're difficult to tune and the settings will be different from one board to another as well as from one camera to another. there's definitely a learning curve and it's steep even after you''ve been using them for a while."
That's the million dollar question. I'm gradually getting better at tuning. I have 3- 8 bit boards, 1 mini, and 1 32 bit 3 axis. I've sometimes wondered if they were different and have swapped them out when having problems. Problems were still there. I have gotten better since putting on a new IMU's, cabling, and ferrit rings. Not sure what has helped, but I'm now getting more consistent and better results.
I may be cheap and foolish for looking to the lower priced solutions such as Alexmos. But I'm willing to put in the extra time. This technology is so fast paced, that spending extra money seems to only get you a head start. It could easily be bypassed in 12-18 months.
I've been following a few post on gh3/zenmuse setup and see there are problems there. I'm guessing for every Gh3 Zenmuse setup, there may be 25, 50, 100, or 1,000 setups with Alexmos per every Zenmuse / gh3 setup. Who knows. I'm a camera slut, so I can't see spending a lot of money on a gimbal that only runs 1 camera with 1 lens. It'd would be nice for the moment, but better have deep pockets because it won't last long unless your lucky like the gh3 to gh4 upgrade with the same body.
Again, hoping for continued improvements on all fronts. It only gets better with technology.
Adanac, curious as to if the 6k-8k has been spent yet and what you ended up buying.
That's the million dollar question. I'm gradually getting better at tuning. I have 3- 8 bit boards, 1 mini, and 1 32 bit 3 axis. I've sometimes wondered if they were different and have swapped them out when having problems. Problems were still there. I have gotten better since putting on a new IMU's, cabling, and ferrit rings. Not sure what has helped, but I'm now getting more consistent and better results.
I may be cheap and foolish for looking to the lower priced solutions such as Alexmos. But I'm willing to put in the extra time. This technology is so fast paced, that spending extra money seems to only get you a head start. It could easily be bypassed in 12-18 months.
I've been following a few post on gh3/zenmuse setup and see there are problems there. I'm guessing for every Gh3 Zenmuse setup, there may be 25, 50, 100, or 1,000 setups with Alexmos per every Zenmuse / gh3 setup. Who knows. I'm a camera slut, so I can't see spending a lot of money on a gimbal that only runs 1 camera with 1 lens. It'd would be nice for the moment, but better have deep pockets because it won't last long unless your lucky like the gh3 to gh4 upgrade with the same body.
Again, hoping for continued improvements on all fronts. It only gets better with technology.
Adanac, curious as to if the 6k-8k has been spent yet and what you ended up buying.
I haven't purchased anything yet and will likely go with an S800 due to time constraints and limited experience.
yeehaanow
Member
IMHO, that is the WORST choice you could make. It took one flight for me to realize what a POS that thing is, and the second flight it scared me with the vibration and blinking white lights. The only thing that's decent is the zenmuse, which hides the flaws of the aircraft very well. I know the Evo made some improvements, and I haven't seen it, but I'm sure I would not be happy with it.
You can buy a very nice used cinestar or similar, and you don't have to build a thing. There are many folks that have upgraded to heavy lifters and are selling perfectly good CS8's for between $3k-$7k. Get a CS8 and it will be good for any DLSR camera, or a zenmuse for a specific cam. Some type of Alexmos gimbal might be good for different cameras, but it won't work out of the box like a zen or movi until you get the tuning down right.
That sounds like great advice but I just don't know enough yet about other platforms to even buy a used one. I saw a Cinestar for sale and when I asked someone's advice, they said it was kind of old school. I didn't know what that meant but took it to mean I shouldn't buy it. I hope to know more at some point, but until I do there is no one to help me make the right choice, apart from single posts from helpful folks like yourself. These posts are great, but aren't enough information to base a large purchase on. My hope is that an S800 evo will get me through to where I can jump to the next level.
Is it easy to take a Cinestar frame/motors and put ESC's and a DJI FC and Zenmuse on it? Would that be better than going with an S800? I could probably find a Cinestar frame and do that if it's not too complicated/time consuming. I'd get a cinestar frame and and an FC I'm up to speed on.
yeehaanow
Member
It all takes time, from the setup, tuning, and testing; but if you skip all that and buy something RTF that you don't really know much about, you are potentially putting your equipment, yourself, and other people at greater risk.
I think there's a lot of value to learn the ins and outs of your craft, but if you're avoiding it because of a time crunch, you might want to reconsider that.
It might work out fine. Some people have flown the s800 a lot and gotten great results. I just don't trust it because they cut lots of corners on the design to make it cheap. The cinestar you could call "old school" but it was one of the first designs that worked really well. That's why they haven't changes the frames all these years and why it has been copied by many. When I got my first one it was amazing how smooth the footage was compared to what I was getting before on a f550. Night and day, plus, an octo is always going to be safer than a hex.
I was thinking about selling one of my CS8's. It's great to have a backup, but I've never needed it in practice.
I think there's a lot of value to learn the ins and outs of your craft, but if you're avoiding it because of a time crunch, you might want to reconsider that.
It might work out fine. Some people have flown the s800 a lot and gotten great results. I just don't trust it because they cut lots of corners on the design to make it cheap. The cinestar you could call "old school" but it was one of the first designs that worked really well. That's why they haven't changes the frames all these years and why it has been copied by many. When I got my first one it was amazing how smooth the footage was compared to what I was getting before on a f550. Night and day, plus, an octo is always going to be safer than a hex.
I was thinking about selling one of my CS8's. It's great to have a backup, but I've never needed it in practice.
yeehaanow
Member
Plenty of people travel with them. It does mean taking the booms out and then re-aligning them upon assembly. It's not ideal for traveling and compared to other frames it's a pain, but when I look at the electrical connection system of the s800 arms, that has failure written all over it, so I much rather take the extra time.