tell me what i want

[7808]

yes that makes sense. i was kind of trying to figure out a good all around frame size and motor/prop combo, somthing agile to do a flip once and a while but also can carry a small payload of camera smoothly, maybe a tricky build for a beginner?

 

[Motopreserve]

yes that makes sense. i was kind of trying to figure out a good all around frame size and motor/prop combo, something agile to do a flip once and a while but also can carry a small payload of camera smoothly, maybe a tricky build for a beginner?

It might be tricky to get the best of both worlds - but that's not saying it can't be done. In my research I found that folks going for tricks use smaller frames (350mm?) and higher rev'ing motors with smaller props. If you are going for heavy lift, then often lesser rev'ing motors and larger props are used - and of course bigger frames to handle all the add-ons.

Personally, I went sort of in the middle with the 1000kv motors and 10" props. But my frame and battery are heavy - and that will lessen the possibility for more payload. For me, this is a learning experience. While I didn't want to spend a bunch of money on something that would become obsolete in a week, I knew that I would be sacrificing some quality for cheaper parts during this learning curve. I simply didn't want to crash a super-expensive machine. And it seems like I WILL crash it - by all accounts...

The two things I did not skimp on were the multiwii board (I can inexpensively add more than I'll ever need to this thing!) and the controller. I figure I can use the controller for years to come - and like computers, I figured that I should get the best I could afford at the moment. Everything else was pretty cheap (comparatively). Motors (complete kit $<10), props, frame and ESCs were all reasonable - and can be fun for me long into the future. But I will be building another I'm sure - and that's when the "big guns" will be bought...

 

[jbrumberg]

It's really hard to achieve that "perfect anything". Rather than make myself more crazy. I also went the "middle path" with a relatively heavy airframe, 1000kv motors and 9" props paired with decent 30A ESC's, a KK2 FCB, and a 4000mAh 3S 25C battery. Ecalc estimates give me about 6 minutes mixed flight time with the ability to carry an additional 400+ grams of payload which is reasonable. Playing around with various component setups on ecalc gave me a fair degree of lift, hover, and flight time differences, and things to think about. I will replace components as required or as my needs change. Tinkering is part of the enjoyment. For just pure fun I take my fleet of winterized SYMA X1's out and play. The programmable Tx makes a huge difference in these "toys" performance and range. And it will not break the bank if I destroy one.

 

[7808]

x1's are awesome for $34 shipped , mine has been crashed many times, packed with snow, and my dog jumps and grabs it out of the air, ive only broke one motor

im not shooting for perfect, just "kinda good" at everything.

whats the difference between $30-$40-$60 multiwii boards? better on-chip sensors? gps included? more outputs? i really know nothing about audrino, but i've ran into it a few times in other hobbys of mine so its probably good of time as any to try one

 

[Motopreserve]

My understanding is that the boards sold by Witespy and a few others just have better components, although the other multiwii boards would have similar (if not identical) chipsets and parts, they are lesser quality, quality control and often more expensive.

Although I think we ALL should become a little familiar with Arduino (wave of the future and all), I have not had to use it once in my setup thus far. Everything has been strictly through the GUI, it was so well programmed from Paul (Witespy). I may dive in a little later and change my magnetic declination for my locality to control GPS better - and that will involve opening the program and changing one numerical value and then hitting write. That simple.

It looks like both J and I have gone "middle of the road" and you are leaning that way. I will say that if I had this initial build to do over again, for my purposes /preferences of hauling video gear - I'd probably go for the pancake type motors with props to match (props screw directly to motor - no half-assed shaft to worry about. Also I'd get a lighter frame so I'd have more payload. That's about it. I don't regret the multiwii because it was far simpler than I feared. And overall I'm happy with my choices so far. We'll see if that stands when I get it off the ground proper. So far I've only done tests - which is terrifying if done in an apartment living room!

 

[jbrumberg]

Our 138# St. Bernard is by anything "strange" (like flying :mask:RC things:hororr. I do not like upsetting her, or wifey, so I keep them "uninvolved".

At this point in my quad build I am still awaiting those 3 esc's. Due to Seasonal and familial realities, the project is basically on hold for about 10 days. There isn't much more that I can realistically do at this point. Until I get this quad up and flying I really do not know what I would've, should've, could've done differently except having been really careful with my order and made certain that I had everything ordered correctly the first time.

If successful and I ultimately will be with help that 400+ gram additional payload and the ~6 minute flight time will be a good starting point for me. I already can take video with my X1's and my #808 16B lens keychain video camera- That was a hoot , but the X1 is not an ideal video platform. This quad build will/could provide the platform for video, FPV, etc.

"... we ALL should become a little familiar with Arduino..." basic programming to really become successful with this hobby. This I too am learning.

 

[Motopreserve]

Sounds like we have all done our homework - and we should all be flying shortly. I'm bringing my rig south for the holiday and hope to be able to give it a shot in the family backyard.

I finally just now used Arduino for the first time (multiwii wise) to upload the changed declination (for the compass - not GPS as previously stated). It was literally typing the correct number and then hitting one button in the Arduino GUI. Done! Could not be easier if you have a pre-programmed board provided with sketches like this Witespy is.

Im in sure there will be more tweaking as I get deeper into this - but it's nice to have a basic sketch to start from that is proven and supported...

 

[Motopreserve]

http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?2099-F450-carbon-fiber-landing-gear-extensions

these might fit on your frame??? Be a nice addition if you eventually want to haul a gopro.

 

[coreyperez]

Go to this Thread and scroll down to post #11. This has been the best explanation of eCalc I have found - and definitely helped me hone in on my choices.

BOOKMARKED! (sorry, I'm here lurking in the shadows, on the same road as 7808, but stationed in Korea. Trying to get everything as correct as possible the first time. I just opted to get the Turnigy 9XR because I got scared off with rumors of Futaba issues. I also got two different modules, one was a combo, the other is just the JR module. I'm going to try and find an inexpensive JR (DSM2 or DSMX) receiver for the other as a backup if the first module doesn't work out.

Corey

(Almost 1500$ into this already!)

 

[jbrumberg]

Corey- Welcome. We are all in this trip together. I am really tired right now, but if I remember correctly (or not :fatigue the Turnigy 9XR or one of those Tx/Rx modules may be different from the 9X Tx/Rx protocol and may have its Tx/Rx channels set up differently from Channel 1= AILE, Channel 2= ELEV, Channel 3= THRO, Channel 4= RUDD, and Channel 5= Gear as is the 9X which could influence on your binding set up. Just a possible heads up from a tired individual overwhelmed with informational overload. Good luck. Jay

 

[coreyperez]

jbrumberg,

I've seen a problem associated with that radio as well. I believe there were 2 problems. One was a fault batch of receivers (Channel 2) and the other was the setting that had to be tweaked. I'll see if I can find that post. I'm sure I book marked it... Now to find the computer/file...

Corey

 

[7808]

i think im almost ready to order (I think) btw - holy crap at HKs shipping prices.. think I had about $260 worth of stuff in my cart, the largest thing being the sk450 frame or maybe the rx/tx, and the shipping was over $70! it said swiss mail or something, so its all shipping from Switzerland or what?? not sure whats up with that... the prices suddenly don't seem so great, i might try to split up my order and maybe order the stuff i can from the US warehouse


anyways im not sure how accurate my ecalc calculations are because the motors i chose are not in the list so i had to pick similar ones. also im still unsure what battery/s i want. on the fence still about multiwii or just going with the kk2.1

parts:

sk450 frame and extended landing skids

these motors - http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...s_28_30S_900kv_270w_short_shaft_version_.html

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__16719__NTM_Prop_Drive_28_Series_Accessory_Pack.html

ESCs
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor..._Motor_Speed_Controller_SimonK_Firmware_.html

props ? ok choice?

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__22438__Slow_Fly_Electric_Prop_8045SF_4_pc_.html
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__22439__Slow_Fly_Electric_Prop_8045R_SF_4_pc_.html

rx/tx
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__9042__Hobby_King_2_4Ghz_6Ch_Tx_Rx_V2_Mode_2_.html

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__9043__Hobby_King_2_4Ghz_6Ch_Tx_USB_Cable.html

charger
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor..._6_50W_6A_Balancer_Charger_w_accessories.html

undecided on batteries, any suggestions? im still learning what the numbers mean, i understand mah but not sure about 3s 4s 20c 25c etc..

also added the breakout cable

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...ullet_Multistar_ESC_Power_Breakout_Cable.html

not sure if these do the same thing..

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25488__Hobbyking_SK450_Lower_PCB_Main_Frame.html

connectors im pretty sure i need? lol

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__21758__10CM_Male_to_Male_Servo_Lead_JR_26AWG_10pcs_set_.html

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__9572__Nylon_XT60_Connectors_Male_Female_5_pairs_GENUINE.html


came out to about $263 before crazy shipping, i did add 2x 3watt white LEDs they were cheap in case i want to fly at night i figured i could power them off somthing on this thing

 

[Motopreserve]

Those motors at least are available in the USA warehouse: HERE

Go through your list and copy/paste the specific parts you want in their search bar. When that list (thumbnails really) comes up, at the top you can choose "location." Choose United States Warehouse. That will show you everything available from there.

If you are on the fence about whether to dive into Multiwii or not - I would suggest going for the KK2.1. You will be up and running and enjoying it quick - and the Multiwii, although possibly taking the same amount of time - could potentially take you longer. You can always swap the KK2.1 out later for another FC - and you're only $30 in the hole - and can probably reuse it on another build, or sell it.

You are going to want at least 3C batteries, and probably something in the 3300 or 3700 range. Dpeneds on what it looks like you can haul weight wise. There is a sticky in the Beginner's Section that gives a decent run down of all the battery info.

Also, check out THIS page for a ton of info, batteries included...

 

[7808]

thank you very much. i was thinking the same thing for the FC, i can always try a multiwii later when im bored and more familiar with everything, and its only $30 like you said.

does everything look pretty good otherwise? i chose a lower kv motor then before based on what i have read, it should be a little more agile and slightly longer run times if i understand correctly? props and battery will effect it to obviously. will those motors being "short shaft version" cause any issues?

 

[Motopreserve]

thank you very much. i was thinking the same thing for the FC, i can always try a multiwii later when im bored and more familiar with everything, and its only $30 like you said.

does everything look pretty good otherwise? i chose a lower kv motor then before based on what i have read, it should be a little more agile and slightly longer run times if i understand correctly? props and battery will effect it to obviously. will those motors being "short shaft version" cause any issues?

Im not sure how the short shaft effects fitting the prop. I know my "regular" length ones are WAY too long. But you may need to ask someone who has used them before. I wish mine were shorter - would probably be better for not bending the damned things in a crash. I may cut mine down at some point soon.

Everything else looked pretty good I think. But I'll check it more thoroughly when I get to a real computer.

you should be able to take the specs from the new motor and plug it into the eCalc using "custom"

 

[Motopreserve]

That all looks good to my untrained eye. Looks like the prop adapters take care of the props fine. Must screw right to the body of the motor?

The only thing that still stands out is the TX/RX choice. Just not sure if there is something out there that you could swing that would be of higher quality but not break the bank???

 

[jbrumberg]

One nice thing about the KK2.0 and 2.1 boards is the onscreen display which appears to facilitate board setup and basic programming.

7808- The XT60 breakout cable will direct choice of battery to those batteries with an XT60 discharge plug. The good news is that I do not think that you will need that PCB bottom plate (which will save you some soldering time) nor those Xt60 male/female connectors (unless you need to replace the discharge connector of battery w/o an XT60 connector). I say this about the connectors, but surprisingly I have had to replace discharge connectors on some of my batteries "down the path"- sometimes because of breakage sometimes because of use change. I still think you should get an 8(+) channel Tx/Rx, but I won't bring this up anymore (I promise). I will probably be using 5 channels setting up my KK2.0 (Channel 5 for Self Level)

 

[Motopreserve]

I definitely used all the different type connectors that I bought. I do have extras, but I'm sure I will use them at some point - and these things are fairly particular, so having them onhand and not having to wait for a delivery of them helps with the waiting...

Jay is right - that breakout cable will eliminate the need for the PDB plate.

As far as batteries, I took off the provided end plug and put on the XT-60. I think it can handle it, and it matched up with the other connections I had. The nano-tech batteries seem to be the affordable ones that everyone raves about - especially here on this forum. I think if you plug in the 3300 3S 25C or 35C ecalc can give you an idea of where you're at. Then you can go up or down accordingly.

 

[jbrumberg]

As long as polarity is correct and the connectors the correct size for the battery discharge wires there really should not be an issue. Some connectors are inherently unsafe; at least in my use :shame:. My wife saw an unanticipated short with a 2S LiPo. I replaced those connectors with XT60's. XT60's can stick- I sprayed mine with silicone spray.

 

[Motopreserve]

Yep. Make sure the polarity is correct - or boom

Great idea on the silicone Jay. Those things are scary tight!!!

Thinking of the things I used or wished I'd remembered: extra XT-60, bullet connectors, heat shrink of various sizes, 3mm screws, stand-offs of various lengths. If you get a bunch of all this stuff it will only add $20 - and you won't kick yourself when that's the one small bit you need.

Also, seems common to buy and extra motor and ESC. I did.